So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

**HoustonRaven** · 12-11-2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

You are the king of unsubstantiated, baseless rumors with nothing to back them up.

Bisciotti has made it clear that his goal is to build a consistent contender and get rid of that "closing SuperBowl window" mentality. Harbs has done that. He's doing it this season despite a huge rash of injuries.

No coach in NFL history has started his career with five straight playoff appearances with qt least one win each year. Firing John would fly in the face of Steve's stated goals, and his style.

I think this Harbaugh hot seat talk is nothing but wishful thinking from his growing band of low football iq haters.

Agreed ... except for the last sentence.

**The Excellector** · 12-11-2012, 05:43 PM

If John Harbaugh is on the hot seat, one would have to consider who his replacement would be.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 12-11-2012, 05:49 PM

Oh boy lol. Here we go...

G3

**BigPlayReceiver** · 12-11-2012, 05:49 PM

Do it, Ex. Start that new thread

**lobachevsky** · 12-11-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

Doesn't matter, ASB HAS to protect the shield, no matter how obvious the gut feeling is

Maybe we should start a 50-50: Guess ASB's extension number at The Castle. Proceeds to charity. You figure anyone shilling that loud & that often for every single move the franchise makes has to be cashing a check with Biscuit's signature. (How much more pathetic would it be if s/he/it was doing it for free?)

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-11-2012, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by RavensQB

Kinda like they would never fire and Offensive Cordinator this late in the season???

Or the first team in history to dump a QB that just won a Superbowl???

Or maybe Brian Billick when he was released and that was an overnight decision???

Ya ok...

Except they have fired an offensive coordinator at midseason before so anyone who said they NEVER would was clearly wrong. Biscuit isn't the one who dumped Trent, that was the GM and head coach. And Billick wasn't let go until he had multiple years of up and down seasons, followed by an epic 5-11 meltdown in which he lost the team. There is zero comparison to that season and this one in which we will are almost mathematically guaranteed to win our division for the second straight year.

But no Silver's probably right, I'm just defending the shield... No way any of those statements solidly rebut your ill thought out and logically inconsistent point.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-11-2012, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Maybe we should start a 50-50: Guess ASB's extension number at The Castle. Proceeds to charity. You figure anyone shilling that loud & that often for every single move the franchise makes has to be cashing a check with Biscuit's signature. (How much more pathetic would it be if s/he/it was doing it for free?)

Yea, there's no fucking way I might just trust a franchise that has made the playoffs every year since they brought in this coach. I must work for them, Because only an idiot would support the decisions that one of the most successful franchises in sports makes.

Ya know, except all those times I agreed that Harbs should have fired Cam, or that we over paid for Anquan, or that constantly moving Oher back and forth was hurting his development, or any number of other times when I have criticized the team. I guess because I'm not a bitter dick who demands everyone get fired twice a week or who posts pictures of the coach I'm supposed to be rooting for saying that he sucks, I must be living in a world of sunshine and unicorn shit huh?

Fucks sake. We are a massively successful franchise. No one has the made the playoffs more than us since John took over. But I should be pissed about that because bad luck ended our runs early? No, I'm encouraged by that because it shows that we don't suffer from the playoff loss hangovers that Billick always did. I think Harbs is destined to win it all for us because he keeps putting us in position to do so.

**RavensQB** · 12-11-2012, 06:28 PM

Someone must have peed in someones Corn Flakes this morning. Good Lord.

**Boulderraven** · 12-11-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

If John Harbaugh is on the hot seat, one would have to consider who his replacement would be.

Who knows? But usual suspects of names will be floated about. Cowher, Gruden, Payton, Arians and a long list of coordinators for sure.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-11-2012, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Who knows? But usual suspects of names will be floated about. Cowher, Gruden, Payton, Arians and a long list of coordinators for sure.

Cowher: .623 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs 5 of his 15 seasons. Won 1 Superbowl in 15 tries.
Gruden: .540 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs in 6 of his 11 seasons. Won 1 Superbowl in 11 tries.
Payton: (Sean?) .646 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs 2 of his 6 seasons. Won 1 Superbowl in 6 tries.
Arians: 1 Season as interim head coach. .800 winning percentage in 10 games. Likely to make first playoff appearance. No Superbowl in 0 tries.

Harbs: .688 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs in 0 of his 5 seasons. Won 0 Superbowls in 4 tries.

Not seeing a clear upgrade in that list unless Arians is able to maintain his lightning in a bottle season. But more importantly, for all the talk about how Harbs "should" have a Superbowl by now, that list clearly shows that even the best come up short in the vast majority of seasons. The all time Superbowl winner Chuck Noll got 4 in 24 seasons. That still means he went 6 years without for every season with. This fan obsession with immediate gratification is unrealistic, and it shows a clear lack of understanding of what a ludicrously high bar "Superbowl or bust" is to hold a coach to. By such a standard, Chuck Noll was a a bust 20 times.

**lobachevsky** · 12-11-2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Yea, there's no fucking way I might just trust a franchise that has made the playoffs every year since they brought in this coach. I must work for them, Because only an idiot would support the decisions that one of the most successful franchises in sports makes.

Ya know, except all those times I agreed that Harbs should have fired Cam, or that we over paid for Anquan, or that constantly moving Oher back and forth was hurting his development, or any number of other times when I have criticized the team. I guess because I'm not a bitter dick who demands everyone get fired twice a week or who posts pictures of the coach I'm supposed to be rooting for saying that he sucks, I must be living in a world of sunshine and unicorn shit huh?

Fucks sake. We are a massively successful franchise. No one has the made the playoffs more than us. But I should be pissed about that because bad luck ended our runs early? No, I'm encouraged by that because it shows that we don't suffer from the playoff loss hangovers that Billick always did. I think Harbs is destined to win it all for us because he keeps putting us in position to do so.

Dang, Spammy. Hoo-wee. You & I may cordially despise each other's opinions, but--

--that has got to be one of the more entertaining rants ever to appear on the board.

You bring to mind a coworker from many years ago who was so dang angry at the Kennedys (I never did quite figure out why) that if whenever they were mentioned in his presence his face would turn purple & smoke would start pouring out of every orifice. We were good friends (dogonlynose how, since he was about 6 megaparsecs starboard of Genghis Khan & I was a borderline Trotskyite) but every once in awhile I'd succumb to the devil on my shoulder & whisper the three fateful syllables of that surname in his ear, step back smartly, & enjoy the pyrotechnics as paint blistered all around me...

Anyhow, it's been a long time since I've seen anyone get wound up so tight off such minuscule input. Thanks!

**Captain Silver** · 12-11-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Maybe we should start a 50-50: Guess ASB's extension number at The Castle. Proceeds to charity. You figure anyone shilling that loud & that often for every single move the franchise makes has to be cashing a check with Biscuit's signature. (How much more pathetic would it be if s/he/it was doing it for free?)

More like a residential line to a family that's last name beings with an "H"

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Yea, there's no fucking way I might just trust a franchise that has made the playoffs every year since they brought in this coach. I must work for them, Because only an idiot would support the decisions that one of the most successful franchises in sports makes.

Ya know, except all those times I agreed that Harbs should have fired Cam, or that we over paid for Anquan, or that constantly moving Oher back and forth was hurting his development, or any number of other times when I have criticized the team. I guess because I'm not a bitter dick who demands everyone get fired twice a week or who posts pictures of the coach I'm supposed to be rooting for saying that he sucks, I must be living in a world of sunshine and unicorn shit huh?

Fucks sake. We are a massively successful franchise. No one has the made the playoffs more than us since John took over. But I should be pissed about that because bad luck ended our runs early? No, I'm encouraged by that because it shows that we don't suffer from the playoff loss hangovers that Billick always did. I think Harbs is destined to win it all for us because he keeps putting us in position to do so.

Dude, that was EPIC!

I am so glad my "I suck" pic got you into such a froth.

Guess it isn't possible to dislike the coach yet like the team? But according to you it is okay to dislike a former offensive coordinator? Glad to know you make the rules on opinions.

My rational has been John is responsible for ALL of Cam's failing and it sounds like the word around town was that someone worth over a 1,000,000,000 thought so to.

And to be fair, I eased up on your idol John Harbaugh for showing some spine finally and am giving him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. So unwind your panties for now, I am sure if he faulters, I will be putting him back in the cross hairs again.

Also, you MAY want to switch to decaf.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-11-2012, 07:40 PM

You boys figure this out yet?

I'm seeing a lot of bluster back and forth and not very much on topic discussion.

**Captain Silver** · 12-11-2012, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

You boys figure this out yet?

I'm seeing a lot of bluster back and forth and not very much on topic discussion.

One would hope!

But seriously, there is no way the Raven's dip into finding a new quarterback. Joe is the man, from here on out. Cam being canned is proof. With Cam Cameron gone, Harbaugh now knows that magnifying glass is on him.

I don't care how many times we make the playoffs, unless Harbaugh comes away with some hardware, he is going to be the next Tony Dungy-esque Tampa Bay firing and someone will be brought in to help get the Ravens and Joe Flacco to the Super Bowl.

Flacco's security I would put at 100%
Harbaugh's security 95%, which is high, but I give him 3 more years, then that bloody axe used on Cam will be headed his way.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-11-2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

Flacco's security I would put at 100%
Harbaugh's security 95%, which is high, but I give him 3 more years, then that bloody axe used on Cam will be headed his way.

I half agree with this. The Flacco part is spot on. Dude is here to stay unless he asks for an absolutely retarded contract.

As for Harbs, while I agree that 8 straight playoff appearances without a ring (which is what he would have at his current rate plus your hypothetical three years) would be approaching the line where you consider upgrades, I'd include the caveat that even the best coaches these days are only on the job for a decade to a decade and a half anyway. At 8 years, Harbs will be nearing the end of the line regardless of his successes or failures.

**JohnBKistler** · 12-12-2012, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

I was surprise Biscuit fire BB after a 13-3 season the year before and then had an injury riddled one the next. I guess injuries aren't an excuse.

Nor is going 20-28 in the other 3 seasons of his last 4 and not making the playoffs.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-12-2012, 07:10 AM

Billick's firing had more to do with him losing the locker room than his record.

**JohnBKistler** · 12-12-2012, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Billick's firing had more to do with him losing the locker room than his record.

I agree...but the 2 are related. You could see the seeds of his demise in the 2004/2005 seasons.

**bmorecareful** · 12-12-2012, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Billick's firing had more to do with him losing the locker room than his record.

So then, you understand that a coach's record is not the only factor used in evaluating whether he should or should not keep his job?

The reality of the matter is that the only "win-loss" factor that REALLY insulates a coach from a hot seat is a recent SB ring. That's it. A coach could go 15-1 for 5 straight years, but if his team consistently bows out of the playoffs in less-than-stellar fashion, particularly if obvious coaching failures play a role, his seat WILL heat up.

Marty Schottenheimer entered San Diego sporting a .620 career winning percentage. He lasted 5 seasons, and his last season was an NFL-best 14-2. He got canned after they bowed out of the playoffs in part due to his egregious coaching failures.

Trust me, I don't care how good Harbaugh's career winning percentage is. If the Ravens back into the playoffs this year and exit with a typical "Bad Ravens"-type of game--players looking ill-prepared, constant misuse of timeouts and challenges, team getting out-schemed and out-adjusted, general "coaching scared" mentality--Harbaugh's seat will be SCORCHING hot. I'm not saying that I would agree or disagree with Harbaugh's dismissal, but reality is what it is.

**Terpsfan82** · 12-12-2012, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

So then, you understand that a coach's record is not the only factor used in evaluating whether he should or should not keep his job?

The reality of the matter is that the only "win-loss" factor that REALLY insulates a coach from a hot seat is a recent SB ring. That's it. A coach could go 15-1 for 5 straight years, but if his team consistently bows out of the playoffs in less-than-stellar fashion, particularly if obvious coaching failures play a role, his seat WILL heat up.

Marty Schottenheimer entered San Diego sporting a .620 career winning percentage. He lasted 5 seasons, and his last season was an NFL-best 14-2. He got canned after they bowed out of the playoffs in part due to his egregious coaching failures.

Trust me, I don't care how good Harbaugh's career winning percentage is. If the Ravens back into the playoffs this year and exit with a typical "Bad Ravens"-type of game--players looking ill-prepared, constant misuse of timeouts and challenges, team getting out-schemed and out-adjusted, general "coaching scared" mentality--Harbaugh's seat will be SCORCHING hot. I'm not saying that I would agree or disagree with Harbaugh's dismissal, but reality is what it is.

This.