So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

**pslholder96** · 12-12-2012, 08:12 AM

I guess it boils down to how we finish. If we were to go limping into the playoffs and become one and done perhaps the seat will get a little warmer but not hot enough for Bisciotti to fire Harbaugh. If memory serves me correctly I don't think any coach has ever got fired for taking his team to the playoffs 5 straight years.

No hot seat for Joe though but plenty of pressure. He needs to prove that Cam was the issue and not him. Unfortanately I don't think he's going to get a fair shake because 3 games is not enough sample size. Let's hope so.

**NOLARavenFAN** · 12-12-2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

I guess it boils down to how we finish. If we were to go limping into the playoffs and become one and done perhaps the seat will get a little warmer but not hot enough for Bisciotti to fire Harbaugh. If memory serves me correctly I don't think any coach has ever got fired for taking his team to the playoffs 5 straight years.

No hot seat for Joe though but plenty of pressure. He needs to prove that Cam was the issue and not him. Unfortanately I don't think he's going to get a fair shake because 3 games is not enough sample size. Let's hope so.

Yes.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-12-2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

If memory serves me correctly I don't think any coach has ever got fired for taking his team to the playoffs 5 straight years.

No coach has been to the playoffs his first five years. If we make it this year, Harbs will be the one and only coach to have ever done so.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-12-2012, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

I guess it boils down to how we finish. If we were to go limping into the playoffs and become one and done perhaps the seat will get a little warmer but not hot enough for Bisciotti to fire Harbaugh. If memory serves me correctly I don't think any coach has ever got fired for taking his team to the playoffs 5 straight years.

For Harbaugh there may be more to it than that. I read (can't remember where) that he's been rubbing people the wrong way i.e. Font office, players etc.

No hot seat for Joe though but plenty of pressure. He needs to prove that Cam was the issue and not him. Unfortanately I don't think he's going to get a fair shake because 3 games is not enough sample size. Let's hope so.

I agree. If we see the exact performance over the next 3 games and whatever playoff games there may be, than there is plenty of pressure for Joe and I think he gets franchised.

If he starts showing a lot of improvement or starts lighting it up, than I think he gets a deal and there is pressure to continue to do that, but not as much as if he keeps the status quo.

**pslholder96** · 12-12-2012, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

For Harbaugh there may be more to it than that. I read (can't remember where) that he's been rubbing people the wrong way i.e. Font office, players etc.

I agree. If we see the exact performance over the next 3 games and whatever playoff games there may be, than there is plenty of pressure for Joe and I think he gets franchised.

If he starts showing a lot of improvement or starts lighting it up, than I think he gets a deal and there is pressure to continue to do that, but not as much as if he keeps the status quo.

Well his love affair with the media is no secret that's for sure

. As for rubbing the front office the wrong way I have not heard or read anything on that but friction between him and some players absolutely as the so called "October Mutiny" article written by Jason Cole pointed out.

**Loco Ravens Fan** · 12-13-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Both are safe.

Thinking Harbaugh is a lock to be safe! Too many injuries on the defense
couldn't be overcome. Now Flacco, he is safe but has to be on shaky ground
in acquiring the almost elite qb contract that his agent probably turned down
before the season. If Joe does sign a contract in the off season, I guessing it will be filled with incentives. Joe's play is just too inconsistent so the Ravens should let Flacco's performance back up his elite qb talk!

**Dirt1** · 12-13-2012, 02:13 PM

Check out Tony Lombardi's article about Harbaugh being on the hot seat.

http://russellstreetreport.com/harba...-in-baltimore/

**Boulderraven** · 12-13-2012, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

Check out Tony Lombardi's article about Harbaugh being on the hot seat.

http://russellstreetreport.com/harba...-in-baltimore/

As I said earlier from a good source (right more than wrong) Harbs is on the hotseat. How they finish out and play in the postseason will determine if he comes back. Any coach could of led this team to the playoffs past few seasons. This year he has had the injury bug bite him in the arse. But, 2 games they should of lost Dallas & SD are wins, plus a lot of narrow escapes vs KC, Cleveland and Pittsburgh (Who stinks). He is not safe, he isnt the only stubborn coach in the locker they have/had. Biscuit only looks forward not back.

**iggyman555** · 12-13-2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

As I said earlier from a good source (right more than wrong) Harbs is on the hotseat. How they finish out and play in the postseason will determine if he comes back. Any coach could of led this team to the playoffs past few seasons. This year he has had the injury bug bite him in the arse. But, 2 games they should of lost Dallas & SD are wins, plus a lot of narrow escapes vs KC, Cleveland and Pittsburgh (Who stinks). He is not safe, he isnt the only stubborn coach in the locker they have/had. Biscuit only looks forward not back.

if big mac plays this week then for sure he is on the hot seat

**Jsmoove** · 12-13-2012, 02:44 PM

Tony's credibility is very strong, plus Boulderraven have called some things in the past and he's been right more than wrong before the news even drop, I think Harbs may really be on the hot seat.

**Paintballguy** · 12-13-2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

As I said earlier from a good source (right more than wrong) Harbs is on the hotseat. How they finish out and play in the postseason will determine if he comes back. Any coach could of led this team to the playoffs past few seasons. This year he has had the injury bug bite him in the arse. But, 2 games they should of lost Dallas & SD are wins, plus a lot of narrow escapes vs KC, Cleveland and Pittsburgh (Who stinks). He is not safe, he isnt the only stubborn coach in the locker they have/had. Biscuit only looks forward not back.

If Harbs keeps these stubborn coaches around, he should be fired. There is no room for that kind of crap in the NFL.

**GirlsKickButt** · 12-13-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Cowher: .623 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs 5 of his 15 seasons. Won 1 Superbowl in 15 tries.
Gruden: .540 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs in 6 of his 11 seasons. Won 1 Superbowl in 11 tries.
Payton: (Sean?) .646 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs 2 of his 6 seasons. Won 1 Superbowl in 6 tries.
Arians: 1 Season as interim head coach. .800 winning percentage in 10 games. Likely to make first playoff appearance. No Superbowl in 0 tries.

Harbs: .688 winning percentage. Missed the playoffs in 0 of his 5 seasons. Won 0 Superbowls in 4 tries.

Not seeing a clear upgrade in that list unless Arians is able to maintain his lightning in a bottle season. But more importantly, for all the talk about how Harbs "should" have a Superbowl by now, that list clearly shows that even the best come up short in the vast majority of seasons. The all time Superbowl winner Chuck Noll got 4 in 24 seasons. That still means he went 6 years without for every season with. This fan obsession with immediate gratification is unrealistic, and it shows a clear lack of understanding of what a ludicrously high bar "Superbowl or bust" is to hold a coach to. By such a standard, Chuck Noll was a a bust 20 times.

**Captain Silver** · 12-13-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

Check out Tony Lombardi's article about Harbaugh being on the hot seat.

http://russellstreetreport.com/harba...-in-baltimore/

Yeah, I read it. I have been saying this for years and all I get is shouted down about winning percentages, making the playoffs every year.

Great, Cam is gone. He should have been gone at the lockout. But we played it safe and got to a dropped pass of the Super Bowl in a game where we pretty much dominated, but could have dominated more if it weren't for the approach.

Cam was Harbaugh's cancer and again, from all I have read, seen, and heard, Steve Bisciotti prompted this. He, like me, is tired of coming up as an also ran. He pays top dollar in his players, the staff, even the facilities. He got a 'manager' of a coach and not an X's and O's coach and it showed in crucial games.

Damn right Harbaugh is on notice. I still give him 3 years unless a Super Bowl comes or we go 5-11 next year, the Billick precedent for getting fired.

**webbrick2007** · 12-13-2012, 03:01 PM

How about this for next year:
1. Promote Caldwell to HC
2. Hire Norv Turner as OC
3. Hire Rex Ryan as DC
4. Demote Harbaugh to Special Teams Coach

A coaching dream team!!!

**GirlsKickButt** · 12-13-2012, 03:03 PM

I honestly don't think that Harbs or Flacco are on the hot seat. Stevie B did not become a billionaire by making rash decisions and shit-canning people as successful as Harbs has been. The five straight playoff appearances (yes, we are going to win Sunday) speak for themselves. That being said, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the players were in fully mutiny mode on Sunday after the loss to the Skins. Thus, Cam's firing. It seemed out of Harbaugh's character to fire someone in season and it had an air of desparation about it. It was either fire Cam or lose the lockerroom. Harbs smartly fired Cam. I think if he hadn't, then he would have been on the hot seat. Or another line of thinking could be that Harbs could be on the hot seat if he cannot win back the players, even after the firing. Stevie B fired one coach because he lost the lockerroom, so it isn't new territory for him. But hell, what do I know?

**lobachevsky** · 12-13-2012, 03:05 PM

IMHO Harbaugh isn't on the hot seat--yet. I think there is a general philosophical clash between him & Bisciotti. Harbaugh avoids risk until he has no choice but to embrace it--he doesn't mind playing predictably or timidly so long as it gets the team to the postseason, where anything can happen. Bisciotti would rather risk bad decisions & mistakes by his difference-maker QB than have him chained to an unimaginative low-risk, tiptoe-into-the-playoffs system.

What remains to be seen is if Harbaugh can live with & coach under the increased risk & uncertainty that comes with a less tightly controlled offense. Can he resist the temptation to bolt the training wheels back on after Flacco has a bad outing? It's not clear he can't--I have personally seen situations where a completely rigid superior suddenly showed surprising flexibility--but if he can't, the guy who canned Brian Billick right after giving him an extension isn't going to be shy about letting him go.

**Captain Silver** · 12-13-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by GirlsKickButt

But hell, what do I know?

So what is the point of posting if you are going to say both yes and no?

**GirlsKickButt** · 12-13-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

So what is the point of posting if you are going to say both yes and no?

This is a discussion, no? Just throwing my 2 cents (and a few theories) out there. The truth is none of us are privy to what really is going on at the Castle and all of this is just pure speculation. That being said, it is sure a good discussion.

**Dirt1** · 12-13-2012, 03:13 PM

If I am Bisciotti, I am also a little annoyed at Ozzie. Why does this have to come from the owner? Why didn't the GM push harder for this move earlier?

**Boulderraven** · 12-13-2012, 03:14 PM

This is what I have heard from a college source and a beat guy who I went to HS with who covers the Ravens. Cam and Harbs go WAAAAAAAYYY back to college years, Cameron hired Harbs, Harbs hired Cam.....they both became very good freinds off the feild and still are. Biscuit wanted to fire Cam after 2010, Harbs talked him out of it, Biscuit wanted to fire Cam after LAST year, Harbs talked him out of it. A compromise was made to change the offense and give Flacco and uptempo offense which he is more happy with, all was happy in the beginning of the season. Caldwell, was a fallback option if things didnt work out. Well, as the season progressed Cam became more of a control freak and dumped the up tempo offense and used poor blocking schemes in the pass and run game (which you saw the results past 4 games). He was told to change blocking schemes and open he offense, but REFUSED. Then Biscuit fired Cam. Biscuit is mad cause Harbaugh got the Ravens into this mess and had no power over Cameron more importantly. Biscuit feels like Harbs thought freindship over the organization, that's why he is on the boiling hotseat for lack of judgement..many players know this and he is less respected in the lockerroom. Is is true? IDK? But, the peices makes sense and the move makes sense. It is a business, and freindships take a backseat. Biscuit feels this is a SB team for the past few years so making playoffs isnt a big deal when comparing with other clubs, SB feels like we are the Patriots, Steelers, Packers etc....
Truth of fiction, maybe a little of both, but that is what I've been told, by 1 great source and 1 fairly good source.