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  1. #169
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This is a major problem with Harbaugh. Considering he is not an X's and O's guy and his role is primarily limited to motivation and executive management, the only things he needs to get right on game day are challenges, clock management, and overall coordination. He is horrible at all 3 of those things and has never improved.

    It's puzzling how poor Harbaugh's feel for the game of football is overall. It sounds like I'm being very critical of him, and I don't mean to be--he does a lot of things within his responsibility well. But he's got to show some improvement in these areas very quickly.
    Clock Management has ALWAYS been an issue here.




  2. #170
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This is a major problem with Harbaugh. Considering he is not an X's and O's guy and his role is primarily limited to motivation and executive management, the only things he needs to get right on game day are challenges, clock management, and overall coordination. He is horrible at all 3 of those things and has never improved.
    Weird how a guy who can't coach on game day, who had a OC who couldn't coordinate an offense, and a slew of DCs who have been alternating almost yearly from loved to hated, has won so many games.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  3. #171
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Weird how a guy who can't coach on game day, who had a OC who couldn't coordinate an offense, and a slew of DCs who have been alternating almost yearly from loved to hated, has won so many games.

    Good Lord.




  4. #172
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This is a major problem with Harbaugh. Considering he is not an X's and O's guy and his role is primarily limited to motivation and executive management, the only things he needs to get right on game day are challenges, clock management, and overall coordination. He is horrible at all 3 of those things and has never improved.

    It's puzzling how poor Harbaugh's feel for the game of football is overall. It sounds like I'm being very critical of him, and I don't mean to be--he does a lot of things within his responsibility well. But he's got to show some improvement in these areas very quickly.
    amen brother been saying this for last 1.5 years




  5. #173
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensQB View Post

    Good Lord.
    I agree Harbs has faults, but this idea that all he is is a cheerleader on game days who can't get anything right is idiotic. It ignores the very real contributions he provides from designing an overall strategy, to putting together the best possible combination of players to implement that strategy while still maintaining the ability to adjust on the fly to injuries and game situations. If he was "horrible" and "all three" of the "the only things he needs to get right on game day" I would expect him to lose at least as often as he wins, rather than 1/3 as often.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  6. #174
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    I agree Harbs has faults, but this idea that all he is is a cheerleader on game days who can't get anything right is idiotic. It ignores the very real contributions he provides from designing an overall strategy, to putting together the best possible combination of players to implement that strategy while still maintaining the ability to adjust on the fly to injuries and game situations. If he was "horrible" and "all three" of the "the only things he needs to get right on game day" I would expect him to lose at least as often as he wins, rather than 1/3 as often.
    Could you point to timeouts called or not called, or challenges called or not called, or end of half or end of game situations that you think he's done a good job of?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #175

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Weird how a guy who can't coach on game day, who had a OC who couldn't coordinate an offense, and a slew of DCs who have been alternating almost yearly from loved to hated, has won so many games.
    Harbaugh didn't win the games. The team won the games. The team includes Harbaugh, the OC whose dismissal you have consistently said you agreed with, and the 4 DCs we've had--some better than others.

    Extrapolating team success to individuals (ANY individuals, including coaches) is incorrect, IMO. Was Frank Walker one of the league's better cornerbacks in 2008? After all, his team won 11 games and his defense was ranked 3rd in the league. It is plainly apparent to all who have eyes that he was not, because instead of judging him by the team's success, we should judge him by how well he did the job he was asked to do (not all that well.)

    I'm not going to attack you personally or accuse you of carrying water for the team as some have done, ASB. You're a good poster and I respect your viewpoint. However, on this issue, I believe your entire way of thinking is dead wrong, and repeating the phrase "nine and four" and plugging your ears to any response doesn't contribute meaningfully to this conversation.

    We can disagree on how good of a job Harbaugh and his assistants have done over the last 4 3/4 years, but what we can't do is point to the team's overall record and declare the debate over. Although it's relevant (obviously very much so considering the whole point of any sport is to win) the win-loss column doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the players and coaches on this team.




  8. #176
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    3 weeks ago, I would've said someone is crazy for suggesting that Harbaugh could get fired. After what happened in the past 3 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised now if Harbaugh got fired. I get the impression that Harbaugh really rubbed Bisciotti the wrong way by sticking with Cameron way too long.




  9. #177
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Could you point to timeouts called or not called, or challenges called or not called, or end of half or end of game situations that you think he's done a good job of?
    Not what I was saying. My point was that while he may be deficient at clock management at times (and seems inconsistent in regards to time outs), to claim that those are "all he needs to do" on game day is a massive misunderstanding of what a coach does, or simply a lack of football knowledge.

    That said, off the top of my head the clock management at the end of the San Diego game to run the clock down to minimize SD's chance of scoring after a missed FG was clever and well done. He's called hundreds of timeouts that were timely or needed and you simply don't remember them for the same reason you don't recall a particular good bit of pass blocking by an O linemen. You only notice that area of the game when someone fucks up.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  10. #178

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    3 weeks ago, I would've said someone is crazy for suggesting that Harbaugh could get fired. After what happened in the past 3 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised now if Harbaugh got fired. I get the impression that Harbaugh really rubbed Bisciotti the wrong way by sticking with Cameron way too long.
    I am of the same mindset.




  11. #179
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    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Not what I was saying. My point was that while he may be deficient at clock management at times (and seems inconsistent in regards to time outs), to claim that those are "all he needs to do" on game day is a massive misunderstanding of what a coach does, or simply a lack of football knowledge.

    That said, off the top of my head the clock management at the end of the San Diego game to run the clock down to minimize SD's chance of scoring after a missed FG was clever and well done. He's called hundreds of timeouts that were timely or needed and you simply don't remember them for the same reason you don't recall a particular good bit of pass blocking by an O linemen. You only notice that area of the game when someone fucks up.
    You may not be saying that, but those are the major portions of his job on gameday.

    I agree with the end of San Deigo in OT, but the end of the game in regulation with a timeout and 46 seconds to only take one shot at the endzone is ridiculous. Yeah we won the game but we saw last week how easy it is to lose a game in OT.

    So I'll ask again since his main job on gameday is challenges, timeouts, clock management and game management situations - can you point to any that had very positive affects on the outcome?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #180

    Re: So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    I agree Harbs has faults, but this idea that all he is is a cheerleader on game days who can't get anything right is idiotic. It ignores the very real contributions he provides from designing an overall strategy, to putting together the best possible combination of players to implement that strategy while still maintaining the ability to adjust on the fly to injuries and game situations. If he was "horrible" and "all three" of the "the only things he needs to get right on game day" I would expect him to lose at least as often as he wins, rather than 1/3 as often.
    It's a false equivalence to go from "motivator and manager" to "cheerleader on game days." We know he does not assemble the offensive or defensive gameplans, although he has overall responsibility for the ENTIRE gameplan. His job is to manage his coordinators, manage personnel (in conjunction with the FO), make some of the big-picture team decisions, set overall tone and pace for practices, and encourage the corporate culture (I could be leaving some things out but I think you get the picture.)

    Some might think equating Harbaugh with an executive-level manager like a CEO, etc. is an insult. I don't think so at all. I've worked with senior management officials that run the gamut from great to terrible and I know the impact a good one can have on an organization. Harbaugh is a good one and he's contributed to the team success with what he does as a manager. There are plenty of other head coaches in the NFL similar to Harbaugh in how he operates--I think Tom Coughlin is very similar, for example. He's got 2 extremely strong coordinators that he lets run their respective rooms while he focuses on the overall motivation and management of the team. Harbaugh may actually be even better as a motivator in some respects since the Ravens haven't fallen prey to the long lulls Coughlin's Giants have over the years.

    The point is, despite all that, he has much to improve upon in terms of his game-day leadership. I'm not going to go right out and say he's cost us games with his clock mismanagement and wasting of challenges, but he certainly has put us in some bad spots over the years.




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