So is Flacco on the hot seat now, or is it Harbaugh?

**JohnBKistler** · 12-10-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

In regards to the original question, I would rather the Biscuit just stay out of all decisions, even if they may be right. I'm quite certain he was behind Cam getting the axe. Harbaugh was never going to do it. Unless Bsiciotti wants to appoint himself as GM then he should stay out of all of these decisions.

I don't have a problem with him making a decision, but in the off-season. If this was truly his call, it just smacks of Danny Snyder'ism at its worst and can really undermine the authority of your head coach in the locker room.

I am not questioning the what: I am thrilled Cam is gone. But the more I think about the how, the more uneasy I get.

Although someone said that Bisciotti made a snap decision to fire Billick, and that worked out fairly well. But again, that was in the off-season. So I guess we'll see...

**Purpleguy** · 12-10-2012, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

I don't have a problem with him making a decision, but in the off-season. If this was truly his call, it just smacks of Danny Snyder'ism at its worst and can really undermine the authority of your head coach in the locker room.

I am not questioning the what: I am thrilled Cam is gone. But the, more I think about the how, the more uneasy I get.

Although someone said that Bisciotti made a snap decision to fire Billick, and that worked out fairly well. But again, that was in the off-season. So I guess we'll see...

It certainly undermines the authority of your head coach to the point where you are better off firing the head coach. If a head coach wants to make this kind of move, then that head coach should assume the play calling responsibility until a new coordinator can be hired in the offseason. It isn't fair to Caldwell to put him on a hot seat like that. Of course Harbaugh is completely incapable of doing that.

Maybe you think the Biscuit's move on Billick has worked out fairly well, but I think this team has at least one Superbowl Championship if Billick were still here. Until this past season, our defense has remained solid, and Billick was great at getting the right coordinators in there to keep them elite. Guys that were superstars here left to become nobodies elsewhere. Billick would have never hired Mattison or Pees, especially when Del Rio was out there. As for offense, this offense would be a wet dream for Billick. We all criticize Billick's offenses, but he did the best with what he had. If you gave that man a weapon, and he was really only given 3 or 4 in his whole tenure, he got the most out of that weapon.

**JohnBKistler** · 12-10-2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

It certainly undermines the authority of your head coach to the point where you are better off firing the head coach. If a head coach wants to make this kind of move, then that head coach should assume the play calling responsibility until a new coordinator can be hired in the offseason. It isn't fair to Caldwell to put him on a hot seat like that. Of course Harbaugh is completely incapable of doing that.

Maybe you think the Biscuit's move on Billick has worked out fairly well, but I think this team has at least one Superbowl Championship if Billick were still here. Until this past season, our defense has remained solid, and Billick was great at getting the right coordinators in there to keep them elite. Guys that were superstars here left to become nobodies elsewhere. Billick would have never hired Mattison or Pees, especially when Del Rio was out there. As for offense, this offense would be a wet dream for Billick. We all criticize Billick's offenses, but he did the best with what he had. If you gave that man a weapon, and he was really only given 3 or 4 in his whole tenure, he got the most out of that weapon.

I really don't want to get this into a Billick vs. Harbaugh thing. I will just make 2 points:

I thought that in the first part of his career, Billick was a great coach. The perfect hire for the culture of the organization. But coaches (all coaches) eventually lose their voice in the locker room (as Harbaugh may now be losing his..we'll see). I don't think Billick would have gotten the same out of these last 4 years that Harbaugh did.

And it amazes me how people rag on the defensive coordinators under Harbaugh. Up until this season, all had top 10 (if not top 3) defenses. 2 got hired away as head coaches. If you are going to criticize him for not hiring Del Rio, does he get no credit for Pagano?

Again, I am not going to get too deeply into this subject. Those were my 2 main thoughts...you can have the last word. Thanks.

**Purpleguy** · 12-10-2012, 04:28 PM

Billick had a fat man trying to undermine him at every turn. That's how he lost his voice.

**festivus** · 12-10-2012, 04:31 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about owner-meddling. It's all well and good when it's paying off, but it sure is ugly when it's a Dan Snyder / Jerry Jones / Al Davis situation.

Hopefully it's always done correctly when it's done, if there is a correct way to do it.

I reject the implication that someone must be on the "hot seat."

After the season, everybody gets evaluated. Everybody. There is no plank, at the tip of which one person stands and the others do not.

**JustaslowZ06** · 12-10-2012, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

If you are going to criticize him for not hiring Del Rio, does he get no credit for Pagano?

Again, I am not going to get too deeply into this subject. Those were my 2 main thoughts...you can have the last word. Thanks.

No he doesn't. Because he went with Peesbrain instead, who has consistantly lower ranked defenses. His thing is the epitomy of bend but don't break and have Tom Brady bail you out time and time again. Sure he looks great when the offense is putting up 50 points a game.

**Captain Silver** · 12-10-2012, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

Billick had a fat man trying to undermine him at every turn. That's how he lost his voice.

BAM! Exactly!

**houstonravensfan** · 12-10-2012, 10:03 PM

OK, Cam gone and good riddance..! NEXT?

**iggyman555** · 12-10-2012, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by houstonravensfan

OK, Cam gone and good riddance..! NEXT?

flacco? lol

**TAS_** · 12-10-2012, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

I am not sure about that. Bisciotti has a big decision to make about Flacco's contract. If the offense doesn't improve, and Flacco will not accept a reasonable contract offer (~6 years, $72 million), I am not so sure that the Ravens won't franchise Flacco, and then trade him.

Surely you can't be serious. Joe's next contract will be over 100 million

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-10-2012, 10:26 PM

So it's now just being stated as a fact that Steve fired Cam rather than Harbaugh? The same Harbaugh who got into a public screaming match with him the day before and who took full credit for the firing today?

Tell me guys, who in the castle do you know who's giving such juicy info? Because from where I'm sitting, it looks like you're all pulling it out of your asses.

**iggyman555** · 12-10-2012, 10:37 PM

Moeller?

**ballhawk** · 12-10-2012, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

In regards to the original question, I would rather the Biscuit just stay out of all decisions, even if they may be right. I'm quite certain he was behind Cam getting the axe. Harbaugh was never going to do it. Unless Bsiciotti wants to appoint himself as GM then he should stay out of all of these decisions.

I am guessing that Flacco wants a contractt in the $100mil range at least $40-45miltext guaranteed. Since that money comes out of Bisciotti's bank account, there is 0% that he is not heavily involved in the process. Harbaugh fucked up by not firing Cameron in 2010/2011 and kind of put Bisciotti's back against the wall. It would be pretty hard to give Flacco the kind of money he presumably wants without seeing what he can do in a different system. So the Ravens will probaby be forced to tag him next year which is really going to cripple the team.

**Kevlar** · 12-10-2012, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

Maybe you think the Biscuit's move on Billick has worked out fairly well, but I think this team has at least one Superbowl Championship if Billick were still here.

Billick didn't even get the first championship. He rode on the coat tails of Marvin Lewis defense. Billick was brought in as an offensive guru. He never established anything close to an effective offense while he was here. All he did was stay out of the way of one of the best defenses the league has ever seen.

No way would they have had this much success with brainy Brian and his schizophrenic offense.

**Corey** · 12-10-2012, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ravens27Girl

Flacco and Harbaugh are safe. Any speculation otherwise is completely unfounded. The next few weeks will be interesting to watch but let's not expect miracles here. Rome was not built in a day.

Caldwell isn't building from the ground up. This isn't the Kansas City Chiefs offense that he's trying to improve. This is an offense that was ranked in the top 10 at one point this season, they led the league in plays over 20 yards by a mile. They've had some downright explosive offensive performances this season. They are capable, they've proven that much. Can they perform to their capability consistently? That is what Caldwell has to get them to do. And that is a hell of a lot easier than starting over with nothing.

**ballhawk** · 12-10-2012, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

Billick didn't even get the first championship. He rode on the coat tails of Marvin Lewis defense. Billick was brought in as an offensive guru. He never established anything close to an effective offense while he was here. All he did was stay out of the way of one of the best defenses the league has ever seen.

No way would they have had this much success with brainy Brian and his schizophrenic offense.

If you dont think billick was absolutely pivotal in our SB year, you were either pretty young at the time or your memory is a little foggy. From making the change to Dilfer midseason, to developing a ball control attack with a dominant rookie RB, to really setting the tone for the team and cultivating a team identity for the playoff run. Billick was the perfect coach for that team. His win/loss percentage over his nine years here speaks for itself, especially considering that he did it without ever having even a halfway decent QB. Our window with the Harbs regime was the 2010 and 2011 seasons. Billick would have gotten a ring one of those years.

**Terpsfan82** · 12-11-2012, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

If you dont think billick was absolutely pivotal in our SB year, you were either pretty young at the time or your memory is a little foggy. From making the change to Dilfer midseason, to developing a ball control attack with a dominant rookie RB, to really setting the tone for the team and cultivating a team identity for the playoff run. Billick was the perfect coach for that team. His win/loss percentage over his nine years here speaks for itself, especially considering that he did it without ever having even a halfway decent QB. Our window with the Harbs regime was the 2010 and 2011 seasons. Billick would have gotten a ring one of those years.

Harbaugh apologists and their revisionist history, lol. Does anyone think Harbs would have won a ring with that 2000 team?

**NOLARavenFAN** · 12-11-2012, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

Harbaugh apologists and their revisionist history, lol. Does anyone think Harbs would have won a ring with that 2000 team?

Yeah, look at the SB opponent........and their QB.

**lobachevsky** · 12-11-2012, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN

Yeah, look at the SB opponent........and their QB.

Yeah, look at 'em:

January 14, 2001
NFC Championship: New York Giants 41, Minnesota Vikings 0

Quarterback Kerry Collins led the Giants to a victory by throwing for 381 yards and 5 touchdowns in the most lopsided game in NFC Championship game history and the second most lopsided title game ever (after the 1990 AFC Title game). Meanwhile, the Giants shut out the Vikings by limiting them to only 114 offensive yards, sacking quarterback Daunte Culpepper 4 times, and forcing 5 turnovers, and handing the Vikings their first shutout and worst loss in their postseason history.

Whadda buncha palookas!

Ravens fans who remember the Super Bowl run tend to forget that most NFL fans & a clear majority of the national sports media were convinced that the Giants were going to stomp them in SB XXXV. Some of that was wishful thinking, particularly on the part of the press*--the abandonment of Cleveland & Ray's mess in Atlanta were fresh in memory & during the runup to the big game Billick paraded his arrogance in front of them like a bullfighter's cape to take the heat off #52--but Collins' ineptitude in Tampa was a total shock to them after he played like an All-Pro in routing a very good Vikings team two weeks earlier.

* IMHO the smug certainty of the press that the Ravens would be crushed was the most drastic misapprehension of reality by supposedly informed professionals in history--until last November when the Romney campaign trumped** them.
** Pun unintended but I accept the award on behalf of my subconscious...

**wickedsolo** · 12-11-2012, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

So it's now just being stated as a fact that Steve fired Cam rather than Harbaugh? The same Harbaugh who got into a public screaming match with him the day before and who took full credit for the firing today?

Tell me guys, who in the castle do you know who's giving such juicy info? Because from where I'm sitting, it looks like you're all pulling it out of your asses.

However, I'm still thinking that Bisciotti definitely had a sit down with Harbs a few weeks ago and said things need to change. Why wouldn't he?

The amount of money he has invested into the offense alone would make any owner do a little digging into why there are inconsistency issues.