Media Crowning Patriots Again

**Sirdowski** · 12-11-2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Seriously, any time I watch him "lighting it up" this is what it looks like.

Bingo.

This on top of an awesome running game and great defenses behind him in the past has gotten them Lombardis. To solely credit Brady is ridiculous.

Switch Aaron Rogers and Brady. Could you imagine what Aaron Rogers could do with that kind of time? Do you think Brady could do what Aaron has done with those offensive lines in GB? No way.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2012, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Sirdowski

Bingo.

This on top of an awesome running game and great defenses behind him in the past has gotten them Lombardis. To solely credit Brady is ridiculous.

Switch Aaron Rogers and Brady. Could you imagine what Aaron Rogers could do with that kind of time? Do you think Brady could do what Aaron has done with those offensive lines in GB? No way.

I'd take Rodgers over Brady any day of the week. Manning in his prime (especially behind Brady's line) but today, give me Rodgers he doesn't need the best or top line to get the ball in the hands of his WR's.

**Sirdowski** · 12-11-2012, 01:30 PM

I'm an old school smash mouth football fan, but Rodgers might be my favorite player in the NFL to watch. Non-Raven of course.

**landspeed** · 12-11-2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I feel it's the system that makes him.

I'm not sure how many games people watch of Brady's but 9 out of 10 he has ALL DAY to throw, and has for years.

IMO, he is one of the most overrated players of our generation. Good? Yes. Very Good? yes. Great? Borderline.

Oh... wow...

this thread is ridiculous.

106.8 QB Rating over the past 5 years, 50 TD season, 2 MVPS, 2 Superbowl MVPs, 3 superbowl rings, 5 appearances in 10 years, only QB to ever win 10 division titles, 1 comeback player of the year.

He doesnt need a good line to be "good." he was sacked 32 times last year and still had a 105.6 rating. He was one of the fastest releases in the game.

yeah, he is "overrated."

The man is the best QB to ever play the game along with Unitas and Montana.

And Ill have you know, his numbers from his first few years resemble Joe's current numbers.

**edgecrusher** · 12-11-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87

So you think Houston's (#1 seed) a fraud and the Pat's (#2 seed) are just media hyped and overrated...Who do you like in the AFC?

Here are some stats on the Pats offense this year courtesy of Mr. Easterbrook at ESPN:

"In 2007, the Patriots set the NFL's single-season scoring record, averaging 37 points per game. This year's New England offense is nearly as good, averaging 36 points per game. By some measures this year's Patriots are superior -- plus-24 for turnovers versus plus-16 in 2007, 28 first downs per game versus 25 per in 2007. The 2007 New England offense featured quick-strike deep passes; the 2012 iteration is seventh in the NFL in rushing, and therefore controls the ball better. New England is on pace for 444 first downs. The current record, set by New Orleans in 2011, is 411."

Every season there are these dominant teams that the stat heads drool over that get stomped in the playoffs. The Patriots, Packers, and Saints are repeat offenders. This season will be no different.

**edgecrusher** · 12-11-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Oh... wow...

this thread is ridiculous.

106.8 QB Rating over the past 5 years, 50 TD season, 2 MVPS, 2 Superbowl MVPs, 3 superbowl rings, 5 appearances in 10 years, only QB to ever win 10 division titles, 1 comeback player of the year.

He doesnt need a good line to be "good." he was sacked 32 times last year and still had a 105.6 rating. He was one of the fastest releases in the game.

yeah, he is "overrated."

The man is the best QB to ever play the game along with Unitas and Montana.

And Ill have you know, his numbers from his first few years resemble Joe's current numbers.

Yes, Brady is one of the best to play the game. He does benefit from a system, however. But he works magic within that system and every great QB has had a system built around him so the discussion is sort of moot.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Oh... wow...

this thread is ridiculous.

106.8 QB Rating over the past 5 years, 50 TD season, 2 MVPS, 2 Superbowl MVPs, 3 superbowl rings, 5 appearances in 10 years, only QB to ever win 10 division titles, 1 comeback player of the year.

He doesnt need a good line to be "good." he was sacked 32 times last year and still had a 105.6 rating. He was one of the fastest releases in the game.

yeah, he is "overrated."

The man is the best QB to ever play the game along with Unitas and Montana.

And Ill have you know, his numbers from his first few years resemble Joe's current numbers.

These are nothing but stats. The game is vastly different from 10 years ago much less when Montana, Elway, Marino etc. played it.

My opinion is that while good/great he's benefited from a good system/good o-line's etc. I've watched a ton of Patriots games and see him have all the time in the world.

**Boulderraven** · 12-11-2012, 02:10 PM

Houston is way overrated. They barely and luckily beat Detroit on bad call and Jax @ home down 14 pts. with 4 minutes left. Thier defense is coming apart, they have lost players as well. Phillips defenses are good for about a year before they start leaking oil. The last 2 decent teams they played they got lit up by GB and NE.

**Sirdowski** · 12-11-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

Yes, Brady is one of the best to play the game. He does benefit from a system, however. But he works magic within that system and every great QB has had a system built around him so the discussion is sort of moot.

No one is arguing that Brady doesn't get it done within his system.

So the broncos have been building their system for years to suit Peyton as they knew he would be playing there?

Obviously not. Peyton came in and set up shop. You better believe every personnel move on offense was made with direct consultation from Manning. Brady, not so much. Although I'm sure he lobbied to get that Randy Moss guy.

**Sirdowski** · 12-11-2012, 02:44 PM

If I'm not mistaken Peyton never played with a defense in Indy that wasn't in the bottom 10. Go look at the rosters for the super bowl winning NE teams. Some notables:

Asante Samuel
Vince Wilfork
Richard Seymore
Teddy Bruschi
Willie Mcginest
Ty law
Lawyer Miloy
Mike Vrabel
Roman Phifer
Rodney Harrison
Ted Washington

All pro-bowlers, some more notable than others.

**LC_Ravens_87** · 12-11-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sirdowski

If I'm not mistaken Peyton never played with a defense in Indy that wasn't in the bottom 10. Go look at the rosters for the super bowl winning NE teams. Some notables:

Asante Samuel
Vince Wilfork
Richard Seymore
Teddy Bruschi
Willie Mcginest
Ty law
Lawyer Miloy
Mike Vrabel
Roman Phifer
Rodney Harrison
Ted Washington

All pro-bowlers, some more notable than others.

How many super bowls have any of those guys been to without Tom Brady as their QB and Bill Belichick as their coach?

I just don't see how you can sell me the Tom Brady overrated argument. The guy's been to 5 Super Bowls in the 10 seasons he's been the full time starter. Hard to get better than that from a QB in the Super Bowl era.

**akashicrecorder** · 12-11-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

I never understood this. Belicheck is one of, if not, the best coaches in the league and a big supporter of baltimore football (Harbs was his suggestion). They happened to go 18-1 after the findings, so evidently they really didnt need what they found out anyway.

Which is why he went out of his way to do it for years and tried to hide that he was doing it, I guess.

**Sirdowski** · 12-11-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87

How many super bowls have any of those guys been to without Tom Brady as their QB and Bill Belichick as their coach?

I just don't see how you can sell me the Tom Brady overrated argument. The guy's been to 5 Super Bowls in the 10 seasons he's been the full time starter. Hard to get better than that from a QB in the Super Bowl era.

How many Super Bowls has Tom Brady won without that defense.....?
Careful now, because if you say you can't expect him to do it on his own your supporting my point.

**landspeed** · 12-11-2012, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sirdowski

If I'm not mistaken Peyton never played with a defense in Indy that wasn't in the bottom 10. Go look at the rosters for the super bowl winning NE teams. Some notables:

Asante Samuel
Vince Wilfork
Richard Seymore
Teddy Bruschi
Willie Mcginest
Ty law
Lawyer Miloy
Mike Vrabel
Roman Phifer
Rodney Harrison
Ted Washington

All pro-bowlers, some more notable than others.

Tom Brady took the patriots to the superbowl last year with one of the worst defenses to ever play in the NFL.

You guys are so full of jealousy and envy its not even funny.

Originally Posted by Sirdowski

How many Super Bowls has Tom Brady won without that defense.....?
Careful now, because if you say you can't expect him to do it on his own your supporting my point.

When was the last time Peyton Manning won a superbowl without a defense? If Im not mistaken, the 2006 superbowl team had the DPOY on it. With Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis in their prime.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Tom Brady took the patriots to the superbowl last year with one of the worst defenses to ever play in the NFL.

You guys are so full of jealousy and envy its not even funny.

One of these things is not like the other.

Originally Posted by landspeed

When was the last time Peyton Manning won a superbowl without a defense? If Im not mistaken, the 2006 superbowl team had the DPOY on it. With Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis in their prime.

**Sirdowski** · 12-11-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Tom Brady took the patriots to the superbowl last year with one of the worst defenses to ever play in the NFL.

You guys are so full of jealousy and envy its not even funny.

Right. Did they win?
Gotcha, so he hasn't won without that defense yet, solidifying my point. Almost doesn't mean anything, I'm sure Brady would say that himself.

I'm having a legitimate discussion, accusing me of jealousy is childish.

Or more appropriately,

"I know you are but what am I?"

When was the last time Peyton Manning won a superbowl without a defense? If Im not mistaken, the 2006 superbowl team had the DPOY on it. With Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis in their prime.

EXACTLY.

So the logical procession from this tells me the more successful my defense is, the more successful my team as a whole is. And since winning a Superbowl is a team effort, the better my chances at winning! Yet somehow Brady gets all the credit. Peyton has been dominating with crap defenses his entire career falling short in the playoffs. The season they step up, he wins a Superbowl.

**landspeed** · 12-11-2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

One of these things is not like the other.

Tom Brady single handedly carried his team last year, Peyton Manning did not(the year they won the superbowl). Peyton had a good year that year, but also had a much better defense than what Brady was working with.

And lastly, it is not a discussion. I cant believe people still trying to legitimately make this into a discussion. Maybe 6 years ago when he had above average #'s but 3 superbowls.

All it does is go to show that no matter how good your QB is, you have to have a good defense to win a championship.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Tom Brady single handedly carried his team last year, Peyton Manning did not(the year they won the superbowl). Peyton had a good year that year, but also had a much better defense than what Brady was working with.

Vince Wilfork in the AFCCG would disagree with you.

**RavensQB** · 12-11-2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Tom Brady took the patriots to the superbowl last year with one of the worst defenses to ever play in the NFL.

I beg to differ. Lee Evans sent Tom Brady to the superbowl last year.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-11-2012, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

And lastly, it is not a discussion. I cant believe people still trying to legitimately make this into a discussion. Maybe 6 years ago when he had above average #'s but 3 superbowls.

It's not a discussion, it's an opinion. I think he's overrated, I didn't say he wasn't good or he wasn't very good, I said he was borderline great.

He's benefited largely from a good to very good o-line and a good scheme.

All you want to do is bring stats, okay if that's the case than Brett Favre is the best ever.

Or Championships, okay than Montana and Bradshaw are tied for the best ever.

I am basing my OPINION off what I see, a guy who the majority of his career has stood behind great protection.

Look no further than Matt Cassell 11 -5