The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

[The Excellector]

It's a darn shame that it's taken five years for them to even begin to figure that out. When you look at all of the top quarterbacks in the league, they are surrounded by personnel dedicated to making them the best quarterbacks in the league. The vast majority of them have teams built around them and their talents. From system, to philosophy, to talent.

Teams have decided to push to make their QBs great and live and die with their leadership.

Here? No sir. Usually, when a QB is drafted in the first round, there is an asserted effort to build the team around that QB, who likely becomes the face of the franchise.

We already had one of those here and his name is Ray Lewis. So, when Joe showed up, he was asked to not screw things up for the defense, while they relied on the running game again and again.

Fives years of this. Well, guess what, Ray can't do it like he used to and this defense isn't doing it like they used to and the Ravens got caught with their pants down.

They might as well accept the fact that Joe Flacco will be the new face of the franchise and make a LEGITIMATE EFFORT, to build the team around him.

It gets on my nerves when I hear this talk about how, "Joe will never be elite" and "It's been five years, he'll never change".

Nobody can honestly sit here with a straight face and say that the Ravens have made a serious effort to build the team around Joe Flacco. His head coach hasn't, his coordinator hasn't, it took them FOUR YEARS to draft a WR of Torrey Smith's caliber. Joe was basically stuck with Mason and not much else, passing wise, for three years. His offensive lines have gone down the drain. They take the ball out of his hands at darn near every little mistake. Yet, suddenly ask him to pull it out at the last minute.

I will say it. Joe Flacco's inconsistency starts with the inconsistent support his development has received from the front office.

It is completely unfair to judge this man, compared to QBs who have enjoyed far stronger support and commitment from their front offices, before he gets the same luxury.

This should have been done two years ago, but everybody swore that defense and running the ball would do the trick. Only for the playoffs to show up, Joe to have to make the throws, only to make them and have em' dropped, as if he's bringing a knife to a gun fight, which he is.

For four years, we sat here and talked about how Joe hardly ever saw a completed pass that wasn't perfectly placed. Meanwhile, Welker is snatching anything low, high and indifferent. Calvin Johnson is beating freakin triple coverage in the red zone.

The fact that Joe Flacco has accomplished as much as he has, given the circumstances, is impressive if you ask me.

Build an offensive system around him, give him a line and give him multiple WRs that can scare a defense.

Watch what happens.

[Captain Silver]

I am willing to endure an 8-8 season to overhaul the team for Joe. The tag may force it anyway, might as well start life without Lewis and Reed next year. Get some beef on the O-Line would be my #1 priority.

[Paintballguy]

I agree 100%. I believe they have the talent in skill positions to be a top offense now. Cam just couldn't figure out how to use the talent.

[pslholder96]

Sorry OP. You're off base with your comments that the FO wasn't making a serious effort to build around Joe. The fact of the matter is that what the Ravens tried to do simply didn't work but you can't question their intentions. They drafted guys like Oher, Rice, Torrey, Ed Dickson, Pitta and Doss for a reason hoping these guys would complement Joe well. Whether some of these parts work out remains to be seen.

[Captain Silver]

Sorry OP. You're off base with your comments that the FO wasn't making a serious effort to build around Joe. The fact of the matter is that what the Ravens tried to do simply didn't work but you can't question their intentions. They drafted guys like Oher, Rice, Torrey, Ed Dickson, Pitta and Doss for a reason hoping these guys would complement Joe well. Whether some of these parts work out remains to be seen.

I think you are both right, but there was a two year portion if Joe's career that was definately win now, don't blow it and they allowed the O-Line to suffer.

[GOTA]

The talent is there. This isn't the 2000 offense. Rice is a great player. The Ravens are 3 deep at receiver. They have 2 effective tight ends. They have the best fullback in the NFL. The offensive line is below average but it's not horrible. There is a lot of talent for Joe to work with. He has more than any QB in Ravens history ever had before.

[HKusp]

The talent is there. This isn't the 2000 offense. Rice is a great player. The Ravens are 3 deep at receiver. They have 2 effective tight ends. They have the best fullback in the NFL. The offensive line is below average but it's not horrible. There is a lot of talent for Joe to work with. He has more than any QB in Ravens history ever had before.

This.

The moves on the O-line haven't been great, but they have tried every year to add talent to the O for Joe. Hopefully it really has been an issue of Cam holding him, and the O in general, back.

P.S.- captain, stop with all these new avatars. Put up your old one, the beer label. That is the one for you.

[Dirt1]

Maybe I am just being cynical, but I don't have as much faith in Flacco as you guys do. I think Flacco is an above average QB, but if you make him the focal point of the offense, I think he will let the team down. IMO, Flacco prospers the most when the offense goes through Ray Rice, and he can use play action to get the ball to his receivers. I think the reason the Ravens offense has not taken off is not because they haven't "let Joe loose", but rather the play calling hasn't played to Flacco's strengths. They have run way too many slow developing, low percentage plays, when Flacco does the best when he gets into a rythmn by running more quck hitting higher percentage plays. The Ravens offense may never be as explosive as the Patriots or Packers offenses, because Flacco isn't as good a QB as Brady or Rodgers. Caldwell can bring elements of the Colts offense to the Ravens, but Flacco isn't Peyton Manning either. However, that doesn't mean that the Ravens offense can't be better than it has been. There is still plenty of room for improvement. I am just afraid that the Ravens are going to try and force Flacco to be something that he isn't to try and justify a new contract.

[Lime in the Coconut]

I agree that Joe has been handcuffed by Cam's system and no, he hasn't had a dominating WR to haul in passes, but Boldin and Torrey make a very formidable pair, Jacoby and Tandon are two solid backups as well. I think the talent has been built year by year, we just haven't had the system or coordinator to make it that effective. I think that if you do go ahead and invest the big bucks in Joe, you HAVE to not only build things around him, but you have to make it his team. Do things that utilize his strengths as well as the others, bring in some stout OL (Yanda, KO, and Oher make a nice group, but we need a C pretty badly) and allow him to have control.

Of course, you can't continue to allow the defense to go to the wayside. Granted injuries have hurt us this year and there's a lot of inexperienced youth, but we need to also make sure it stays at least solid on that side of the ball.

[Dirt1]

I agree that Joe has been handcuffed by Cam's system and no, he hasn't had a dominating WR to haul in passes, but Boldin and Torrey make a very formidable pair, Jacoby and Tandon are two solid backups as well. I think the talent has been built year by year, we just haven't had the system or coordinator to make it that effective. I think that if you do go ahead and invest the big bucks in Joe, you HAVE to not only build things around him, but you have to make it his team. Do things that utilize his strengths as well as the others, bring in some stout OL (Yanda, KO, and Oher make a nice group, but we need a C pretty badly) and allow him to have control.

Of course, you can't continue to allow the defense to go to the wayside. Granted injuries have hurt us this year and there's a lot of inexperienced youth, but we need to also make sure it stays at least solid on that side of the ball.

But you see, that's just it. If the Ravens give Flacco the contract he wants, they won't have the cap space to get all of those other pieces, and Flacco isn't good enough to put the team on his back and carry them to victory.

[HoustonRaven]

But you see, that's just it. If the Ravens give Flacco the contract he wants, they won't have the cap space to get all of those other pieces, and Flacco isn't good enough to put the team on his back and carry them to victory.

Other way around.

If Flacco is franchised, we're in much deeper trouble in terms of cap space.

Giving Flacco a contract, even one as big as he seeks (which he wont get), still helps the team in terms of cap space.

[pslholder96]

But you see, that's just it. If the Ravens give Flacco the contract he wants, they won't have the cap space to get all of those other pieces, and Flacco isn't good enough to put the team on his back and carry them to victory.

Which could be why they cut ties with Cameron to see once for all what Joe can do without him. If Joe plays lights out the rest of the season and leads us to the superbowl then Joe has the leverage in contract negotiations.

[GOTA]

But you see, that's just it. If the Ravens give Flacco the contract he wants, they won't have the cap space to get all of those other pieces, and Flacco isn't good enough to put the team on his back and carry them to victory.

That's definitely an issue. In the past this team has always been able to pay it's top defensive talent and go cheap on the QB spot. Even when they did pay up for a second contract, McNair and Grbac, it didn't last long. Now they have to tie up huge money into somewhere they never have before. It's going to mean going cheap somewhere else. Ozzie has a habit of following Belechick. The Patriots really got cheap on defense the past couple of years and it hasn't hurt them. I could see Ozzie having to do the same thing. Even if Flacco signs for what the Ravens offered him last year he's still going to make them reevaluate the cap structure of this team.

[Terpsfan82]

Ray Rice is the best player on offense, not Flacco. He's not consistent enough to build an offense around, IMO. He's good enough when the defense is Top 5 and Rice is averaging close to 2000 all purpose yards. Other than that we are not contenders for a championship.

[Dirt1]

Other way around.

If Flacco is franchised, we're in much deeper trouble in terms of cap space.

Giving Flacco a contract, even one as big as he seeks (which he wont get), still helps the team in terms of cap space.

Flacco thinks that he is a better QB than he really is. I am really beginning to think that the Ravens will franchise Flacco, but that he won't play next season under the franchise tag. The Ravens will either sign him to a reasonable contract (~6 years, $72 million) by the time the draft comes around, or they will trade him.

[RavenScallywag]

Every unit on the team has been almost tailor made for Joe. The only one I'll point to in the last few years is the OL.

2008 - Gaither - Grubbs - Brown - Chester - Willie Anderson
2009 - Gaither - Grubbs - Birk - Chester - Oher
2010 - Oher - Grubbs - Birk - Chester - Yanda
2011 - McKinnie - Grubbs - Birk - Yanda - Oher
2012 - Oher - CF (Harewood/Williams/Reid) - Birk - Yanda - KO

So, let's just say that 2008 and 2009 were Joe's "golden" years. He was improving, he was progressing. In 2010, Oher is moved to LT, which was admittedly a mistake then. Yanda was a good OL, but RT was not his best position. 2011, Oher back to RT, McKinnie in at LT. McKinnie had some good games, but overall just a little better than Oher. Grubbs was injured for 6-7 games, leading to Gurode at LG. Birk has been getting worse....

2012 - Oher back to LT, which we all can probably agree isn't working. LG has been an absolute disaster. Grubbs was playing at PB alternate level. What remains is a total CF. Harewood had a shot and failed, Bobbie Williams had a shot and failed. Jah Reid is maybe okay? Birk continuing to regress. Rookie at RT has been good at times, bad at others.

I remember the OL play was rough in 2010, which was what led to Matsko's firing and Moeller's "promotion". Can anyone argue it's gotten better since then? I don't think it has. Moeller probably can't go midseason, but I don't think he should be back next year. Also, Oher needs to GTFO of LT! Let McKinnie ride out the year, then you HAVE to go back to the drawing board! He's not getting it done. LG, I don't even know. Maybe Oher? Maybe ride with Reid? Birk is likely gone after this year, but we'll have some rough times with Gradkowski too. Yanda should hopefully be back full go next year, and I hope KO continues to improve.

The OL play isn't all the answer, but I think that is the one spot where the moves they've made have been okay at best, and many have not panned out.

[Jsmoove]

where this team started fucking up with building around flacco was letting jason brown walk, when you draft your franchise QB you build a foundation for him, you want him protected, sure brown wanted center money but his play HERE deserved it. We had that doundation in JG, GRUBBS,BROWN, YANDA AND OHER JG didn't work outr so they should have drafted true LT. This Oline has been a revolving door for so many years, just ask the colts of the early to mid 2000s what consistency on the Oline means, ask Denver too. You need to protect your franchise QB.

[Dirt1]

Which could be why they cut ties with Cameron to see once for all what Joe can do without him. If Joe plays lights out the rest of the season and leads us to the superbowl then Joe has the leverage in contract negotiations.

Totally agree. If that scenario plays out, the the Ravens will pay Flacco what he wants. However, I am doubtful that the Ravens will make it past the Divisional round of the playoffs this year.

[StingerNLG]

The talent is there. This isn't the 2000 offense. Rice is a great player. The Ravens are 3 deep at receiver. They have 2 effective tight ends. They have the best fullback in the NFL. The offensive line is below average but it's not horrible. There is a lot of talent for Joe to work with. He has more than any QB in Ravens history ever had before.

But the best the Ravens ever had doesn't equate to on par with other championship teams in the NFL though. That's like saying they just aren't as crappy as they used to be.

I agree they have been building around Joe at the outside positions, though Rice came in with Joe so that isn't an acquisition they got just for him. Adding Torrey Smith and Pitta/Dickson was great. But we let our OL suffer letting Grubbs walk, moving Oher back to LT, and continuing to have a 35+ year old center start with no real backup plan or player to groom for that spot. That to me isn't building around Joe.

And the bigger problem now is they have to go back to drafting the defense because that unit is suffering BADLY. So the OL is going to get passed over again this coming season.

[ravensnhokies]

You know honestly, I think our receiving corp is bit overrated by many. Boldin is slow and has issues separating. But at least he is polished in his route running and Joe trusts him, even if the window is really tight. Torrey has a lot of potential, but he is average at best right now with running routes (why a talent like that is a 2nd round pick). Joe and Torrey can't seem to get on the same page recently on the deep ball, b/c Torrey is developing a bad habit of jumping too early instead of just decelerating. Sure Joe should not underthrow him as much, but a QB needs a WR to be consistent with their running to develop chemistry. Torrey will improve, no doubt, but he is inconsistent right now. And Jones.. same thing... great straight line speed... but very little in the department of route running skill. Doss was rendered pretty much useless in Cam's offense b/c it was all go deep and Boldin being the already occasional short route option in the Cam offense. They still lack a true #1 like Megatron, Calvin, Wayne, Fitz, AJ.... Our boy Matty Ice has two in White & Jones. Can Torrey develop into that true #1??? I hope. Hey who knows how things really are? We were stuck in the dark ages with Cam, so maybe our receivers truly are better than their performance in Cam's system.