The Baltimore Ravens need to be build around Joe Flacco.

[Jsmoove]

You know honestly, I think our receiving corp is bit overrated by many. Boldin is slow and has issues separating. But at least he is polished in his route running and Joe trusts him, even if the window is really tight. Torrey has a lot of potential, but he is average at best right now with running routes (why a talent like that is a 2nd round pick). Joe and Torrey can't seem to get on the same page recently on the deep ball, b/c Torrey is developing a bad habit of jumping too early instead of just decelerating. Sure Joe should not underthrow him as much, but a QB needs a WR to be consistent with their running to develop chemistry. Torrey will improve, no doubt, but he is inconsistent right now. And Jones.. same thing... great straight line speed... but very little in the department of route running skill. Doss was rendered pretty much useless in Cam's offense b/c it was all go deep and Boldin being the already occasional short route option in the Cam offense. They still lack a true #1 like Megatron, Calvin, Wayne, Fitz, AJ.... Our boy Matty Ice has two in White & Jones. Can Torrey develop into that true #1??? I hope. Hey who knows how things really are? We were stuck in the dark ages with Cam, so maybe our receivers truly are better than their performance in Cam's system.

they are not overrated they were under utilize, boldin didn't leave AZ where he put up all those numbers just to forget how to run routes and get separation. Has he slowed? yes but he is still dangerous. I'm hoping Caldwell can finish out the season with some positive results under the same system just better plays and play calling. then the system needs to go after that.

[Dirt1]

That's definitely an issue. In the past this team has always been able to pay it's top defensive talent and go cheap on the QB spot. Even when they did pay up for a second contract, McNair and Grbac, it didn't last long. Now they have to tie up huge money into somewhere they never have before. It's going to mean going cheap somewhere else. Ozzie has a habit of following Belechick. The Patriots really got cheap on defense the past couple of years and it hasn't hurt them. I could see Ozzie having to do the same thing. Even if Flacco signs for what the Ravens offered him last year he's still going to make them reevaluate the cap structure of this team.

The big difference there is that Belechick has Brady. Flacco may make similar money as Brady if gets the contract he wants, but he isn't as good as Brady. Would the Ravens really be that worse off if they were able to trade Flacco for a couple of high draft picks, provided they could get a good young QB like Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson in the draft?

[ravensnhokies]

And the bigger problem now is they have to go back to drafting the defense because that unit is suffering BADLY. So the OL is going to get passed over again this coming season.

They have drafted defense recently.... Its just Oz and Eric have flopped. Kindle, Cody are busts. Jimmy Smith is disappointing so far. (I used to say Kruger too is disappointing, but he is finally ballin...Took a little while)

[Paintballguy]

When you have Boldin running 9 routes, yes he looks overrated. His best work is in the middle of the field where he can punish DB's trying to tackle him.

[StingerNLG]

Flacco thinks that he is a better QB than he really is. I am really beginning to think that the Ravens will franchise Flacco, but that he won't play next season under the franchise tag. The Ravens will either sign him to a reasonable contract (~6 years, $72 million) by the time the draft comes around, or they will trade him.

If Lee Evans holds onto that ball, we're not having this conversation. So this notion that Joe Flacco cannot carry the team in and through the playoffs isn't completely true. That's my issue with all this talk that Joe isn't this, or isn't that. He was good enough to travel to Foxboro and put the ball in the chest of a receiver in the endzone to win the game.

[Captain Silver]

If Lee Evans holds onto that ball, we're not having this conversation. So this notion that Joe Flacco cannot carry the team in and through the playoffs isn't completely true. That's my issue with all this talk that Joe isn't this, or isn't that. He was good enough to travel to Foxboro and put the ball in the chest of a receiver in the endzone to win the game.

Coupled with that game winning drive in Pittsburgh last year, I am dumbfounded people even suggest Joe can't get it done. Get him another second in the pocket, toss in some slants and screens, we have a deadly QB.

[ravensnhokies]

The big difference there is that Belechick has Brady. Flacco may make similar money as Brady if gets the contract he wants, but he isn't as good as Brady. Would the Ravens really be that worse off if they were able to trade Flacco for a couple of high draft picks, provided they could get a good young QB like Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson in the draft?

Dirt1... Have you've seen Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson play? I like Tyler a little better but neither is remotely capable of what RG3 and Luck can do or even Wilson. Do you want Gabbert or Ponder as our QB? Maybe I'd be wrong with them, but I'd much rather try to refine Flacco in a real offense and see what happens.

[leachisabeast]

What do you people expect?

When were we ever in position to get Flacco a guy like Calvin Johnson? Since Flacco has been here, we have been picking past 20 in every draft, and have had very limited cap space in every year because of the money we are paying a heap of stars we have on this roster.

If you ask me, Flacco has had it far from rough compared to a lot of other QB's who have been drafted in the first rounds. He has an all pro RB that has bailed him out of many games in the past, as well as relying on a top 5 defense every year up to this year. He did have Todd Heap who was a very good tight end even in 08 09 and 2010, and had D Mason, as well as Boldin since 2010 (both former pro bowl players). The main issue is the Oline, which is the one thing our FO has not done a good job of retaining. I think this offseason should be spent rebuilding the Oline, and I have said this in literally every draft/offseason thread.

The Oline is IMO the only hole on this offense. I guess we could have a guy like Calvin Johnson at WR, but do you realize how hard it is to get guys like that?

[Captain Silver]

Wow, LBeast and I agree! Alert the media!

[RavenScallywag]

The Oline is IMO the only hole on this offense. I guess we could have a guy like Calvin Johnson at WR, but do you realize how hard it is to get guys like that?

As hard as getting the QBs that everyone always says Joe needs to be better than...

[Dirt1]

If Lee Evans holds onto that ball, we're not having this conversation. So this notion that Joe Flacco cannot carry the team in and through the playoffs isn't completely true. That's my issue with all this talk that Joe isn't this, or isn't that. He was good enough to travel to Foxboro and put the ball in the chest of a receiver in the endzone to win the game.

Please don't misunderstand me. I have always maintained that Flacco is a good enough QB to win a Super Bowl, provided the rest of the team is also strong. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees, or Roethisberger though. All of thos QBs have carried their teams to victory despite having major deficiencies in their supporting cast. Look at what Brady and Rodgers have been able to do with no name RB, and WRs (Brady), and terrible defenses. Flacco cannot carry a team the way those players have. The Ravens offense still went through Ray Rice last year. Rice is the top offensive weapon on the Ravens, Flacco is #2. You don't pay the second best offensive weapon on your team $100+ million.

[blacknpurplepain]

Maybe I am just being cynical, but I don't have as much faith in Flacco as you guys do. I think Flacco is an above average QB, but if you make him the focal point of the offense, I think he will let the team down. IMO, Flacco prospers the most when the offense goes through Ray Rice, and he can use play action to get the ball to his receivers. I think the reason the Ravens offense has not taken off is not because they haven't "let Joe loose", but rather the play calling hasn't played to Flacco's strengths. They have run way too many slow developing, low percentage plays, when Flacco does the best when he gets into a rythmn by running more quck hitting higher percentage plays. The Ravens offense may never be as explosive as the Patriots or Packers offenses, because Flacco isn't as good a QB as Brady or Rodgers. Caldwell can bring elements of the Colts offense to the Ravens, but Flacco isn't Peyton Manning either. However, that doesn't mean that the Ravens offense can't be better than it has been. There is still plenty of room for improvement. I am just afraid that the Ravens are going to try and force Flacco to be something that he isn't to try and justify a new contract.

I totally agree!!!!!! I just hope the front office don't over pay Joe. We need help on d badly like Ed's n Ray's replacements. We shall see


Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

[Dirt1]

Dirt1... Have you've seen Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson play? I like Tyler a little better but neither is remotely capable of what RG3 and Luck can do or even Wilson. Do you want Gabbert or Ponder as our QB? Maybe I'd be wrong with them, but I'd much rather try to refine Flacco in a real offense and see what happens.

I would rather have Flacco as well. Please don't interpret what I am saying as I don't want Flacco as the Ravens QB. It's just at what price do I want Flacco as the Ravens QB. The Ravens have a lot of holes, and they have a great RB that is signed long term. Given that reality, why not continue to feature the RB, and have the QB be the complimentary player, instead of the QB becoming the focal point of the offense? I am all for tying up a large percentage of the cap in the QB, but only if that QB is a big time difference maker that can carry the team. I just don't think Flacco is good enough to warrant that much cap space. Getting a cheaper option (but a good option) at QB, will allow the Ravens to fill many other holes they have on the team. Honestly, I don't know what Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson could do the Ravens offense. I had never heard of Joe Flacco two months before the Ravens drafted him, and they went to the AFC Championship game in his rookie season (despite a ton of injuries), because the rest of the team was strong.

[pslholder96]

where this team started fucking up with building around flacco was letting jason brown walk, when you draft your franchise QB you build a foundation for him, you want him protected, sure brown wanted center money but his play HERE deserved it. We had that doundation in JG, GRUBBS,BROWN, YANDA AND OHER JG didn't work outr so they should have drafted true LT. This Oline has been a revolving door for so many years, just ask the colts of the early to mid 2000s what consistency on the Oline means, ask Denver too. You need to protect your franchise QB.

Really Jason Brown? The one who wanted "guard money" to play center. Just curious. Where is he now? Oh he's sitting right at home. From what I've gathered his phone hasn't exactly been ringing of the hook. Cam Cameron is where you need to start when they decided to retain him after the 2010 season.

[leachisabeast]

Really Jason Brown? The one who wanted "guard money" to play center. Just curious. Where is he now? Oh he's sitting right at home. From what I've gathered his phone hasn't exactly been ringing of the hook. Cam Cameron is where you need to start when they decided to retain him after the 2010 season.

Don't bother debating with him about Jason Brown, he is a Jason Brown guy. I have already told him what you just told him, yet he continues to think that not resigning Brown was a huge problem lol. Matt Birk was a good pick up and he was arguably just as good as what Brown was in 08 in 09 and 2010.

[Paintballguy]

If you do any reading on Rams forums, you'd find out Jason Brown was a terrible signing by them. Plus look at the fact he's not even playing right now. That says a lot.

[Crean N Crimson]

The title of this thread should read, "The Ravens need to build around Ray Rice."

He's one of, if not, THE MOST versitile and explosive backs in the NFL. The offense should go through him. Joe hasn't proven he's worthy of building a team around him, IMO.

[Jsmoove]

What do you people expect?

When were we ever in position to get Flacco a guy like Calvin Johnson? Since Flacco has been here, we have been picking past 20 in every draft, and have had very limited cap space in every year because of the money we are paying a heap of stars we have on this roster.

If you ask me, Flacco has had it far from rough compared to a lot of other QB's who have been drafted in the first rounds. He has an all pro RB that has bailed him out of many games in the past, as well as relying on a top 5 defense every year up to this year. He did have Todd Heap who was a very good tight end even in 08 09 and 2010, and had D Mason, as well as Boldin since 2010 (both former pro bowl players). The main issue is the Oline, which is the one thing our FO has not done a good job of retaining. I think this offseason should be spent rebuilding the Oline, and I have said this in literally every draft/offseason thread.

The Oline is IMO the only hole on this offense. I guess we could have a guy like Calvin Johnson at WR, but do you realize how hard it is to get guys like that?

I said the same shit just now, the Oline is the foundation for flacco's succes. A good Oline and a good QB flacco can make any wideout look like a star.

[RavensRule21215]

It's a darn shame that it's taken five years for them to even begin to figure that out. When you look at all of the top quarterbacks in the league, they are surrounded by personnel dedicated to making them the best quarterbacks in the league. The vast majority of them have teams built around them and their talents. From system, to philosophy, to talent.

Teams have decided to push to make their QBs great and live and die with their leadership.

Here? No sir. Usually, when a QB is drafted in the first round, there is an asserted effort to build the team around that QB, who likely becomes the face of the franchise.

We already had one of those here and his name is Ray Lewis. So, when Joe showed up, he was asked to not screw things up for the defense, while they relied on the running game again and again.

Fives years of this. Well, guess what, Ray can't do it like he used to and this defense isn't doing it like they used to and the Ravens got caught with their pants down.

They might as well accept the fact that Joe Flacco will be the new face of the franchise and make a LEGITIMATE EFFORT, to build the team around him.

It gets on my nerves when I hear this talk about how, "Joe will never be elite" and "It's been five years, he'll never change".

Nobody can honestly sit here with a straight face and say that the Ravens have made a serious effort to build the team around Joe Flacco. His head coach hasn't, his coordinator hasn't, it took them FOUR YEARS to draft a WR of Torrey Smith's caliber. Joe was basically stuck with Mason and not much else, passing wise, for three years. His offensive lines have gone down the drain. They take the ball out of his hands at darn near every little mistake. Yet, suddenly ask him to pull it out at the last minute.

I will say it. Joe Flacco's inconsistency starts with the inconsistent support his development has received from the front office.

It is completely unfair to judge this man, compared to QBs who have enjoyed far stronger support and commitment from their front offices, before he gets the same luxury.

This should have been done two years ago, but everybody swore that defense and running the ball would do the trick. Only for the playoffs to show up, Joe to have to make the throws, only to make them and have em' dropped, as if he's bringing a knife to a gun fight, which he is.

For four years, we sat here and talked about how Joe hardly ever saw a completed pass that wasn't perfectly placed. Meanwhile, Welker is snatching anything low, high and indifferent. Calvin Johnson is beating freakin triple coverage in the red zone.

The fact that Joe Flacco has accomplished as much as he has, given the circumstances, is impressive if you ask me.

Build an offensive system around him, give him a line and give him multiple WRs that can scare a defense.

Watch what happens.

[bmorecareful]

Please don't misunderstand me. I have always maintained that Flacco is a good enough QB to win a Super Bowl, provided the rest of the team is also strong. He isn't Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees, or Roethisberger though. All of thos QBs have carried their teams to victory despite having major deficiencies in their supporting cast. Look at what Brady and Rodgers have been able to do with no name RB, and WRs (Brady), and terrible defenses. Flacco cannot carry a team the way those players have. The Ravens offense still went through Ray Rice last year. Rice is the top offensive weapon on the Ravens, Flacco is #2. You don't pay the second best offensive weapon on your team $100+ million.

Wes Welker is a no name WR? Gronkowski? Hernandez? The best OL of the past decade? Yeah, okay. Brady sure has no talent around him!

Of the QBs you mentioned (Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger) ALL of them have a ton of help. Brady, I already mentioned. Rodgers has the best WR corps in the NFL and one of the best play-callers in the league. Peyton Manning has never played a down without an incredible supporting cast (Harrison, Wayne, Edge James, Dallas Clark, and now Eric Decker and Demaryius Thomas). Brees has Jimmy Graham, Colston, a stable of great RBs, and a good OL (and he's still struggling this year partly because they aren't getting their running game going). Roethlisberger has had top 5 defenses and a good supporting cast on offense.

I think you'd be very hard pressed to say that the Ravens OL, WR, and TE personnel are top 10 for their position in the NFL. I'm not even sure WR and TE are even in the top half of the league in terms of production and upside. Yes, the Ravens have a top 5 RB but he's been underused and misused far too much. And when they try to run the offense exclusively through him, it's just too easy for defenses to key in on him and shut him down.