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  1. #85
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    Re: A thought I had...



    Quote Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds View Post
    I agree, I don't see why Flacco needing a decent supporting cast is something that should be held against him, along with his own deficiencies having no time to throw and a stagnant running game is a terrible combination.
    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    It wouldn't, if he wasn't demanding the kind of money that will require him to be able to perform without a great supporting cast.




  2. #86

    Re: A thought I had...

    I can not let the FO get off too easily.

    We lost/gave up JJ, Redding, and -especially -- Grubbs. "Right man, right price," Oz says? Well, too often recently, ANY price was the RIGHT price, because we had NO solid "next man up." Now, we are at the mercy of a C/C+ QB who will demand B+/A money BECAUSE THE FO HAS NO CONTINGENCY PLAN!

    To step in for Grubbs we had . . . ? And for Flacco? LOL

    We need to cut those who've been around too long -- Ray, Ed, and (maybe) Oz?




  3. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    I can not let the FO get off too easily.

    We lost/gave up JJ, Redding, and -especially -- Grubbs. "Right man, right price," Oz says? Well, too often recently, ANY price was the RIGHT price, because we had NO solid "next man up." Now, we are at the mercy of a C/C+ QB who will demand B+/A money BECAUSE THE FO HAS NO CONTINGENCY PLAN!

    To step in for Grubbs we had . . . ? And for Flacco? LOL

    We need to cut those who've been around too long -- Ray, Ed, and (maybe) Oz?
    Just because losing a player puts you in a position of need doesn't mean you go out and over pay.
    Grubbs was good but not worth his contract to us, and had we signed JJ and Redding you'd be complaining about overpaying for old players next year.

    Really? No contingency plan? And you know this how?
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 12-16-2012 at 09:53 PM.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  4. #88
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    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonravensfan View Post
    I can not let the FO get off too easily.

    We lost/gave up JJ, Redding, and -especially -- Grubbs. "Right man, right price," Oz says? Well, too often recently, ANY price was the RIGHT price, because we had NO solid "next man up." Now, we are at the mercy of a C/C+ QB who will demand B+/A money BECAUSE THE FO HAS NO CONTINGENCY PLAN!

    To step in for Grubbs we had . . . ? And for Flacco? LOL

    We need to cut those who've been around too long -- Ray, Ed, and (maybe) Oz?
    I think the FO is due its share of criticism, but in all fairness, they did have a contingency plan for losing Grubbs: KO. The FO assumed, not unreasonably, that McKinnie would come into camp at weight & in shape, partly to qualify for the bonuses built into his contract but also because he (should have) understood that this year he'd be playing for his next (last) contract & as a man with money woes it would behoove him to play well to get a big paycheck. Bobby Williams would start at LG while KO was being coached up & a few games into the season he'd take over.

    But McKinnie shows up with (allegedly) all the signs of a head case, they put Oher at LT & then decide that well, maybe they should use the year to give Oher an extended audition there, so they reshuffle the line completely. Jah Reid's next guy up at RT--he gets hurt & misses most of TC, so KO goes in instead; Bobby Williams gets hurt, so Harewood starts at LG...& the part of the offense that needs the most unit cohesion is in chaos....




  5. #89

    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Somehow the OL, the WR, the coaches get slammed (and deservedly so) yet the QB somehow continues to receive excuses.
    I'm still trying to find the forum in which this is the majority opinion. Because right now I see the QB getting all the blame for everything going wrong with this offense. Let's see, so far we have a thread about trading for Kurt Cousins, others that want to draft a new QB, get Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and wants to let Flacco walk. So I'm curious how Flacco is getting excuses. Please, on a day like today especially you can more or less swap "Joe Flacco" for "Kyle Boller", and we're having the same discussions minus nutjob Scout posters with three letter names or claims to have watched football for the last 60 years.

    The black/white positions people are taking on the offense are puzzling, considering most reasonable people would seem to think an offense works as a unit. But to some here, if we just understand that Flacco is average, or sucks, or can never get the team in a position to get to a super bowl, or trade him for the Redskins backup QB, somehow the offense will magically learn how to run block and Ray Rice will be unstoppable, our receiving core will never drop a pass, and the QB will never get hit/sacked or throw a pick because Flacco is just an average guy that rode on everyone else's back to get his records and stats.

    No one is absolving Flacco's play today. It was bad. But I'm not putting the entire offensive woes on him, nor am I going to ignore that a good percentage of his play also comes from the OL protection he gets (or doesn't get), or the fact that when he puts the ball in receiver's hands they drop it.




  6. #90

    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I'm still trying to find the forum in which this is the majority opinion. Because right now I see the QB getting all the blame for everything going wrong with this offense. Let's see, so far we have a thread about trading for Kurt Cousins, others that want to draft a new QB, get Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and wants to let Flacco walk. So I'm curious how Flacco is getting excuses. Please, on a day like today especially you can more or less swap "Joe Flacco" for "Kyle Boller", and we're having the same discussions minus nutjob Scout posters with three letter names or claims to have watched football for the last 60 years.
    You have to understand: not accepting the claims that Flacco is a horrible QB that the Ravens should dump immediately is making excuses for his play.

    He played poorly. So did the rest of the offense. In flashes, most of them made some good plays. Some of Flacco's plays were brilliant. Others were ugly. The interception was an errant pass. If he'd put more air under it and led Boldin, it probably would have scored a touchdown. It wouldn't have mattered that he'd focused on Boldin the whole way. The fumble was also inexcusable. He'd gained the first down. He's not a running back. He should have gone down as soon as he was sure he'd made the marker. It's his job to know how much he needs.

    Before he was sacked for the first time, however, Flacco had been hurried 15 times and hit 8, if I recall the stat line they flashed on the screen in the second half correctly. Caldwell was calling quicker-developing plays, but in one way or another the offense did a poor job of executing in the first half. If it wasn't Flacco missing his target, it was Pitta dropping a ball, or Smith, or a receiver running a poor route, or the line and Rice making a screen too obvious. Penalties also hurt drives.




  7. #91

    Re: A thought I had...

    ^
    ^
    ^
    The last two posts are spot on. What baffles me is that some actually acknowledge the bad play of the O line and receivers but then still put all the blame on Joe. Not saying he played good today he did not but he did throw a few really good passes, showed better moves in the pocket I thought and was under ridiculous pressure during the beginning of the game and had no help from the run game. He compunded that by the bad pick and the fumble, not good but hardly all him.

    Some of you only see the bad, he threw one high pass so they were all high, he underthrew or overthrew a reciever so all deep shots were so. In the second Steeler game, there was one guy who said that Torrey had to break up four near INTs on bad deep passes only to have Film come out and say that except for the underthrow, the other ones were catchable or in his opinion throw aways.

    Criticize the man but don't make crap up and watch all of what he does rather than only remember the one bad pass, I have seen all the QBs in the league throw a pick like that one, ask Peyton about the one that lost the Superbowl for him. This doesn't excuse the play it only shows that he like them all are human and can make a bad play or two and that many even the so called elite look bad when their O lines and run games suck. Get him help on the O line and a new system and I think it all turns around.




  8. #92

    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I'm still trying to find the forum in which this is the majority opinion. Because right now I see the QB getting all the blame for everything going wrong with this offense. Let's see, so far we have a thread about trading for Kurt Cousins, others that want to draft a new QB, get Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and wants to let Flacco walk. So I'm curious how Flacco is getting excuses. Please, on a day like today especially you can more or less swap "Joe Flacco" for "Kyle Boller", and we're having the same discussions minus nutjob Scout posters with three letter names or claims to have watched football for the last 60 years.

    The black/white positions people are taking on the offense are puzzling, considering most reasonable people would seem to think an offense works as a unit. But to some here, if we just understand that Flacco is average, or sucks, or can never get the team in a position to get to a super bowl, or trade him for the Redskins backup QB, somehow the offense will magically learn how to run block and Ray Rice will be unstoppable, our receiving core will never drop a pass, and the QB will never get hit/sacked or throw a pick because Flacco is just an average guy that rode on everyone else's back to get his records and stats.

    No one is absolving Flacco's play today. It was bad. But I'm not putting the entire offensive woes on him, nor am I going to ignore that a good percentage of his play also comes from the OL protection he gets (or doesn't get), or the fact that when he puts the ball in receiver's hands they drop it.
    Ya know, I can't think of a single poster who has said none of this is Joe's fault. I can name numerous in this thread alone who have claimed that everything is Joe's fault.
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  9. #93

    Re: A thought I had...

    hes still in a shitty system, with weak talent, and shitty OL. you cant have all 3 of those negatives and be judged, imo. I dont think hes Elite and capable of making lesser talent awesome currently in this system but i cant conclusively say in a different system he/we cant plug and play personnel a little more. You look at his peers and I dont think any of them have the same situation. Cutler is probably the closest with a bad OL and average WRs but he atleast has a true number 1 in Marshal, which probably points to his own inconsistency. Thats also not saying he still makes mistakes, but not unlike Eli, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.
    -JAB




  10. #94
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    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I'm still trying to find the forum in which this is the majority opinion. Because right now I see the QB getting all the blame for everything going wrong with this offense. Let's see, so far we have a thread about trading for Kurt Cousins, others that want to draft a new QB, get Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and wants to let Flacco walk. So I'm curious how Flacco is getting excuses. Please, on a day like today especially you can more or less swap "Joe Flacco" for "Kyle Boller", and we're having the same discussions minus nutjob Scout posters with three letter names or claims to have watched football for the last 60 years.

    The black/white positions people are taking on the offense are puzzling, considering most reasonable people would seem to think an offense works as a unit. But to some here, if we just understand that Flacco is average, or sucks, or can never get the team in a position to get to a super bowl, or trade him for the Redskins backup QB, somehow the offense will magically learn how to run block and Ray Rice will be unstoppable, our receiving core will never drop a pass, and the QB will never get hit/sacked or throw a pick because Flacco is just an average guy that rode on everyone else's back to get his records and stats.

    No one is absolving Flacco's play today. It was bad. But I'm not putting the entire offensive woes on him, nor am I going to ignore that a good percentage of his play also comes from the OL protection he gets (or doesn't get), or the fact that when he puts the ball in receiver's hands they drop it.
    The reality is that if you point out how Flacco can be decent with a solid supporting cast then you're making excuses for Flacco and are drinking purple kool aid and seemingly are wearing purple sunglasses.
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  11. #95
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    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    hes still in a shitty system, with weak talent, and shitty OL. you cant have all 3 of those negatives and be judged, imo. I dont think hes Elite and capable of making lesser talent awesome currently in this system but i cant conclusively say in a different system he/we cant plug and play personnel a little more. You look at his peers and I dont think any of them have the same situation. Cutler is probably the closest with a bad OL and average WRs but he atleast has a true number 1 in Marshal, which probably points to his own inconsistency. Thats also not saying he still makes mistakes, but not unlike Eli, Roethlisberger, etc, etc.
    Actually, the Bears are a good comparison (offensively). Outside of Brandon MArshall (who IMO is one of the top 7 receivers in the league), they don't have much and their OL is really bad too. Even Matt Forte's numbers are down. The only difference between Cutler and Flacco is Cutler is a punk who can't stay healthy all year.

    But, I think if you were to give Cutler a better OL, a better TE, and 1 more decent receiving option (maybe that will be Alshon Jeffery?), then I think you'd see Cutler doing a lot of things that he isn't/can't now.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  12. #96

    Re: A thought I had...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Actually, the Bears are a good comparison (offensively). Outside of Brandon MArshall (who IMO is one of the top 7 receivers in the league), they don't have much and their OL is really bad too. Even Matt Forte's numbers are down. The only difference between Cutler and Flacco is Cutler is a punk who can't stay healthy all year.

    But, I think if you were to give Cutler a better OL, a better TE, and 1 more decent receiving option (maybe that will be Alshon Jeffery?), then I think you'd see Cutler doing a lot of things that he isn't/can't now.
    agreed. In Den, he was a top QB with the leagues top Offense. move him to Chi, take away his top WR, a worse OL, and hes been pretty average with more INTs and plagued by inconsistency. Sounds like Flacco, minus like you said, health and the fact that Flacco still doesnt throw that many INTs, people just harp on them. Right system, OL, or WR talent, or some combination of the 3 I cant say he doesnt become more consistent.

    Anyone blaming Flacco for wasting a good defense, should at least question the FO for still not getting Flacco a legitimate #1, i know its easier said than done, but still a viable complaint, imo. The only teams im not envious of their WR talent are teams that are never in the conversation for comparing him too. Pitt, NE, Den, Atl, NYG, Chi, GB, NO, etc. They all have at worst, a legitimate #1 target.
    -JAB




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