Jay Glazer: Harbaugh helped Cameron hang on for as long he could until he was finally let go

[Paintballguy]

My empty beer glass is named Charity.

lol I have to admit you were on point about Harbaugh earlier. I just didn't believe it until now. The fact that Bisciotti had to come over Harbaugh to fire Cameron says to me that Harbaugh is done. I don't see Bisciotti or the locker room being happy with Harbaugh.

[Terpsfan82]

Damn, Harbaugh... I used to be the one of like 3 on here against him, now, the mutiny is spreading.

Harbaugh reminds me a lot of Gerorge Siefert. When George had the most stocked team in history, they were like 14-2, and destroyed everyone in the playoffs, finishing with a 55-10 beatdown of the Broncos in the SB, back when it was harder on offenses. His winning percentage with the 49ers - .766 Then he went to the Carolina Panthers - .333 winning percentage. Point is, he was a 'manager'. Good defensive coordinator, but still, a manager. Take talent away and he was below average. Harbaugh seems of the same ilk.

Not that any coach would have an easy time, but I think the window of John's chance at a Raven's Super Bowl slipped out of Lee Evan's hands.

It has been said, he comes from the family of playing not to lose. Today's NFL, that won't cut it. Even at FULL strength at our best under him, the Ravens would have fallen to either the 49ers or the Patriot's in a game like Sunday night because of that mentality.

Plus, I said long ago, what people are waking up to today, decisions were oft made on the side of family and friendship rather than what was best for the team, for the business. I imagine this is where Captain Corporate Bisciotti might start heating up.

Either way, you let Harbaugh finish the season, but more than John, more than Ozzie, the fate and future of the team rests entirely in Steve Bisciotti's hands. Is he going to allow Flacco to break the bank? Strap the team to him for years? Keep Harbaugh and see what kind of plan he has going forward? Tell Ozzie to cut and not resign legends and manage the cap a bit better?

I mean, Steve's biggest move as an owner was firing the only coach to win a Super Bowl here on a gut feeling, how's that gut feeling these days?

I stand by had Billick gotten Flacco and the team Harbaugh had, told Rex to pound sand, he'd have gotten another Super Bowl. But, I imagine Billick's ego and ways were still to maverick for Steve and he wanted his own guy. Well, he got him. Doesn't appear poster boy is going to bring the hardware to Baltimore anytime soon.

I gave Harbaugh 3 years, I think if the Raven's shit the bed and loose the next 3 games, including playoffs, he may be a goner.


p.s. - Where are all the Harbaugh defenders? ASB? What's up dog?

Good analogy with Siefert. As one of the dregs who migrated from the Sun Forum, I remember your (and my own) outrage after the meltdown at Heinz following the 2010 season. I was truly done with him then. I saw all I needed to see when Pittsburgh tied the game. The look on his face told it all.

[Ravenboy2003]

I really don't think you'll see Harbaugh given a pink slip. He is Steve Bisciotti's "guy".. first head coach Steve ever hired, and he will get some slack thanks to all the injuries AND the fact that he agreed to fire Cameron.

With that being said, I think you'll see another major house-cleaning on the coaching staff if we lose out and go one-done in the playoffs.. Pees hasn't proved anything and neither have some of our position coaches. And Caldwell? Please.. the guy got a nice reputation for standing on the sidelines watching Manning run the Colts after Dungy left. He has proven ZILCH as a play caller. And Flacco has gotten worse under his tutelage.

Any house cleaning needs to include Ray Ray and Ed Reed. Give them their gold watch and the key to the city or whatever, but kindly tell them they aren't needed any more and that we'll see them at their Ring of Honor ceremony. This team needs to stop pretending that those two dinosaurs are legitimate every down starters.

[Captain Silver]

Good analogy with Siefert. As one of the dregs who migrated from the Sun Forum, I remember your (and my own) outrage after the meltdown at Heinz following the 2010 season. I was truly done with him then. I saw all I needed to see when Pittsburgh tied the game. The look on his face told it all.

Oh yeah, I remember it well. I drew my line in the sand that day and said he'd never win the big one. I mean it is easy to pick against not winning it all, don't get me wrong. But we were up 21, and as the Steelers crept back into the game, he just sat there, arms folded, staring off into the enevitablity that seemed to pervade the entire sideline, even Ray Lewis. Sorry, you scream, you shout, you get in there faces, inspire, something. Not save it for Danelle Ellerbe for celebrating a TD in preseason.

Where's my Mighty Man Jacket, I feel like we could beat a varsity team... long as we hit them with an sword and a shovel.

[darthpemo]

Damn, Harbaugh... I used to be the one of like 3 on here against him, now, the mutiny is spreading.

Harbaugh reminds me a lot of Gerorge Siefert. When George had the most stocked team in history, they were like 14-2, and destroyed everyone in the playoffs, finishing with a 55-10 beatdown of the Broncos in the SB, back when it was harder on offenses. His winning percentage with the 49ers - .766 Then he went to the Carolina Panthers - .333 winning percentage. Point is, he was a 'manager'. Good defensive coordinator, but still, a manager. Take talent away and he was below average. Harbaugh seems of the same ilk.

Not that any coach would have an easy time, but I think the window of John's chance at a Raven's Super Bowl slipped out of Lee Evan's hands.

It has been said, he comes from the family of playing not to lose. Today's NFL, that won't cut it. Even at FULL strength at our best under him, the Ravens would have fallen to either the 49ers or the Patriot's in a game like Sunday night because of that mentality.

Plus, I said long ago, what people are waking up to today, decisions were oft made on the side of family and friendship rather than what was best for the team, for the business. I imagine this is where Captain Corporate Bisciotti might start heating up.

Either way, you let Harbaugh finish the season, but more than John, more than Ozzie, the fate and future of the team rests entirely in Steve Bisciotti's hands. Is he going to allow Flacco to break the bank? Strap the team to him for years? Keep Harbaugh and see what kind of plan he has going forward? Tell Ozzie to cut and not resign legends and manage the cap a bit better?

I mean, Steve's biggest move as an owner was firing the only coach to win a Super Bowl here on a gut feeling, how's that gut feeling these days?

I stand by had Billick gotten Flacco and the team Harbaugh had, told Rex to pound sand, he'd have gotten another Super Bowl. But, I imagine Billick's ego and ways were still to maverick for Steve and he wanted his own guy. Well, he got him. Doesn't appear poster boy is going to bring the hardware to Baltimore anytime soon.

I gave Harbaugh 3 years, I think if the Raven's shit the bed and loose the next 3 games, including playoffs, he may be a goner.


p.s. - Where are all the Harbaugh defenders? ASB? What's up dog?

I'm not a fan of Harbaugh. I've never been a fan of a manager doesn't know the operational side.

To me Billick is very similar to Seifert, he rode the great defense he had... his offenses stunk. He picked crappy quarterbacks too...

I think Steve's "gut feeling" was more of a punch in the gut when he talked to the locker room and came away knowing that the better half of the team wasn't buying Billick's message anymore.... after all, how many years can an offensive genius run a shitty offense and ask the defense to bail them out?

[Captain Silver]

I'm not a fan of Harbaugh. I've never been a fan of a manager doesn't know the operational side.

To me Billick is very similar to Seifert, he rode the great defense he had... his offenses stunk. He picked crappy quarterbacks too...

I think Steve's "gut feeling" was more of a punch in the gut when he talked to the locker room and came away knowing that the better half of the team wasn't buying Billick's message anymore.... after all, how many years can an offensive genius run a shitty offense and ask the defense to bail them out?

Belicheck was shit till Brady, what was Walsh without Montana? Hard to succeed as a Head Coach without a decent QB in this league. Ozzie shares blame, but Billick coached that team, he lead that team, to say he road a defense when he took the media on for Ray Lewis is bullshit. To say his attitude wasn't reflected in that team that went into Tennessee and ripped their hearts out is bullshit. He made some mistakes, but look what happened when McNair played 1 good season with us, 13-3. Ain't buying it.

[darthpemo]

Belicheck was shit till Brady, what was Walsh without Montana? Hard to succeed as a Head Coach without a decent QB in this league. Ozzie shares blame, but Billick coached that team, he lead that team, to say he road a defense when he took the media on for Ray Lewis is bullshit. To say his attitude wasn't reflected in that team that went into Tennessee and ripped their hearts out is bullshit. He made some mistakes, but look what happened when McNair played 1 good season with us, 13-3. Ain't buying it.

Personnel matter. I get it. But systems matter too, when Montana was down, people like Cavanaugh and Young were able to succeed, when Brady went down, Cassel looked like a stud (how is Kansas working for him?) too.

Billick's offense stunk... I can, the season you brought up, remember that awesome goal interception Mcnair against Indy to cap an otherwise awesome defensive performance to hold the Colts/Manning to no touchdowns....

To your point, Harbaugh had a 12-4 team... but you know why I can't stand him either... he couldn't find a way to win the games against opponents he had no business losing too and his time management/end of the ACCG was horrible. If he had made sure the team was motivated and didn't play to the level of opposition... and won one of those games against the Titans or Seahawks last year... we beat the snot out of the Patriots at our place not theirs.

[iggyman555]

I really don't think you'll see Harbaugh given a pink slip. He is Steve Bisciotti's "guy".. first head coach Steve ever hired, and he will get some slack thanks to all the injuries AND the fact that he agreed to fire Cameron.

With that being said, I think you'll see another major house-cleaning on the coaching staff if we lose out and go one-done in the playoffs.. Pees hasn't proved anything and neither have some of our position coaches. And Caldwell? Please.. the guy got a nice reputation for standing on the sidelines watching Manning run the Colts after Dungy left. He has proven ZILCH as a play caller. And Flacco has gotten worse under his tutelage.

Any house cleaning needs to include Ray Ray and Ed Reed. Give them their gold watch and the key to the city or whatever, but kindly tell them they aren't needed any more and that we'll see them at their Ring of Honor ceremony. This team needs to stop pretending that those two dinosaurs are legitimate every down starters.

i dont think you read the article

[Captain Silver]

Personnel matter. I get it. But systems matter too, when Montana was down, people like Cavanaugh and Young were able to succeed, when Brady went down, Cassel looked like a stud (how is Kansas working for him?) too.

Billick's offense stunk... I can, the season you brought up, remember that awesome goal interception Mcnair against Indy to cap an otherwise awesome defensive performance to hold the Colts/Manning to no touchdowns....

To your point, Harbaugh had a 12-4 team... but you know why I can't stand him either... he couldn't find a way to win the games against opponents he had no business losing too and his time management/end of the ACCG was horrible. If he had made sure the team was motivated and didn't play to the level of opposition... and won one of those games against the Titans or Seahawks last year... we beat the snot out of the Patriots at our place not theirs.

No doubt, McNair picked the worst game ever to shit the bed, but overall they were 12 in scoring that year.

Yeah, I don't like being right about this, I really had hoped that I was going to be wrong, but I saw long ago the man fell short. If all things are equal in the playoffs, luck, injuries, skill, athleticism, and it comes down to head coach, there is only one question: so about the draft...

[Purpleguy]

I haven't been a fan of Harbaugh since he was hired. Let's be honest. What does he bring to this team? Would he be a major loss? He's not an x's and o's guy. He isn't much of a game manager. He doesn't seem to be much of a motivator. He isn't much of a talent evaluator. He's not even good at surrounding himself with good assistants. If we find someone that is good at just one of those things then we have made an improvement.

[Captain Silver]

I haven't been a fan of Harbaugh since he was hired. Let's be honest. What does he bring to this team? Would he be a major loss? He's not an x's and o's guy. He isn't much of a game manager. He doesn't seem to be much of a motivator. He isn't much of a talent evaluator. He's not even good at surrounding himself with good assistants. If we find someone that is good at just one of those things then we have made an improvement.

But...but...but...but he's made the playoffs 5 straight years!

[LC_Ravens_87]

It's never all coach or all players when a team struggles. But For me, it's always mostly about the players. Coaches put you over the top maybe, but even Vince F'n Lombardi couldn't get the 2012 Raiders to the promised land.

There are deep problems with the talent level of this team. And honestly, that's how the NFL is designed--to punish teams that continue to win.

There is simply a dearth of impact players on this team who have come on-board since 2009. I mean just look at a roster of a Denver, a Houston, a San Francisco, even a Seattle, and compare their young players to the Ravens young players. It's not close...

Only 1 Belichick in the NFL right now and he's seems to be the only coach who can keep his team "elite" indefinitely. Harbaugh ain't Belichick but few have ever been. Obviously, Harbaugh has his weaknesses, probably the biggest being that he's overly cautious, but I just can't imagine many other coaches getting much different results as HC in Baltimore this season and in seasons past.

[LC_Ravens_87]

As for Cameron, Hindsight's 20-20 but Former Superiors make terrible subordinates. Harbaugh had a conflict of interest, and Cameron felt overly empowered. Can't have a subordinate who you feel you owe something to indefinitely.

Biscotti, being the owner he is, and the businessman he is, should have been the owner, identified the probelm and made the choice earlier. The buck stops with the Biscuit and he could have stepped in long ago to do something that clearly Harbaugh had trouble doing.

[NC Raven]

[QUOTE=LC_Ravens_87;540050[

Only 1 Belichick in the NFL right now and he's seems to be the only coach who can keep his team "elite" indefinitely. Harbaugh ain't Belichick but few have ever been. [/QUOTE]

Agree with your whole post except
this part. BB does what Harbs does. Gets to the playoffs and takes it from there. BB hasn't won a Sb in 8 years, just gets imto the playiffs and
Loses just like we do. Why he isn't compared to Andy Reid the way Harbs is I have no idea. What has Belichik done that is so vastly superior to what Harbs has in the last 5 years?

[Paintballguy]

Agree with your whole post except
this part. BB does what Harbs does. Gets to the playoffs and takes it from there. BB hasn't won a Sb in 8 years, just gets imto the playiffs and
Loses just like we do. Why he isn't compared to Andy Reid the way Harbs is I have no idea. What has Belichik done that is so vastly superior to what Harbs has in the last 5 years?

Bob Belichick won 3 rings within 4 years. I know that he hasn't won since 04, but the guy still has 3 rings.

[ActualSpamBot]

Harbs as it stands now will be let go after the season, depending on the season results.

Says the guy who's "inside source" told him that Ray, Pollard,and Yanda were playing this week. Forgive me for continuing to insist that you're pulling this stuff out of your hat, but you've been wrong as often as you've been right and the stuff you have been right on hasn't exactly been groundbreaking.

[s.r.genovese]

Ha ha you must be related to the Mattesons! Or maybe nepotism runs throughout the NFL!

[phacts]

It's never all coach or all players when a team struggles. But For me, it's always mostly about the players. Coaches put you over the top maybe, but even Vince F'n Lombardi couldn't get the 2012 Raiders to the promised land.

There are deep problems with the talent level of this team. And honestly, that's how the NFL is designed--to punish teams that continue to win.

There is simply a dearth of impact players on this team who have come on-board since 2009. I mean just look at a roster of a Denver, a Houston, a San Francisco, even a Seattle, and compare their young players to the Ravens young players. It's not close...

Only 1 Belichick in the NFL right now and he's seems to be the only coach who can keep his team "elite" indefinitely. Harbaugh ain't Belichick but few have ever been. Obviously, Harbaugh has his weaknesses, probably the biggest being that he's overly cautious, but I just can't imagine many other coaches getting much different results as HC in Baltimore this season and in seasons past.

[steelerhater]

Apart of me really doesn't want to believe that a professional coach would blatantly refuse to make adjustments in the game out of sheer stubbornness

You've been watching the games for the last few years, right?

[Paintballguy]

You've been watching the games for the last few years, right?

Yea really


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