This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

**bmorecareful** · 12-21-2012, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

The team doesn't have a good enough track record of developing QB's to go for a project guy in the rounds where they could have picked a player with more immediate impact.

I agree with you in one sense, but that mentality is also why this team is stuck with Joe Flacco at QB and no other options. They've failed in the past to develop QBs but they also failed in the past to develop WRs, and both Smith and Doss look like they're going to pan out. You have to start trying sometime, now's the time.

Originally Posted by jonboy79

wait... I haven't been following this thread closely.

Are there peopel that ACTUALLY think that Alex Smith has been better recently then Flacco? WOW. I thoguth there was only one loon ont he other board, who's been trumpeting this pioint for days with nothing but cherry picked efficiency stats and no mention of Cam/Flacco's propensity to go deep. Alex Smith is the most risk averse QB in football by a LONGSHOT. That is the ONLY reason that pathetic BUST of a QB matured into an accpetable starter in what would be Flacco's next year.

Yeah, Alex Smith is trash. Jim Harbaugh designed his entire system around making it impossible for Alex Smith to screw up. That's why he has so many sacks--the kid has been coached to go through no more than two reads and if the checkdown isn't there, take a sack. Alex Smith's 100+ QB rating is an incredible fraud.

Definitely don't think the Ravens should sign Smith. Flacco might wilt under pressure just as bad as Smith, but at least he can make every throw on the field, which Smith can't.

**Justlovemybirds** · 12-21-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I agree with you in one sense, but that mentality is also why this team is stuck with Joe Flacco at QB and no other options. They've failed in the past to develop QBs but they also failed in the past to develop WRs, and both Smith and Doss look like they're going to pan out. You have to start trying sometime, now's the time.

Out of the 5 years that Flacco has been year, its only been within the last few weeks that the thought of being "stuck" with him was cause for concern so I can't really blame the FO for that oversight.

**bmorecareful** · 12-21-2012, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

Out of the 5 years that Flacco has been year, its only been within the last few weeks that the thought of being "stuck" with him was cause for concern so I can't really blame the FO for that oversight.

It's not so much that they're "stuck" with him, poor choice of words on my part, but rather that they have absolutely no credible backup on the roster and that's bad for a NUMBER of reasons. In 2009 Flacco got hurt against Minnesota and they wanted to let him sit and rest, but they didn't think Troy Smith could play at all. In 2010 the Ravens were going to bench Flacco for Marc Bulger at halftime of the Atlanta game due to performance, but they didn't think Flacco could handle that mentally so they let him return and he proceeded to carve Atlanta up (should have won that game). The threat of benching might have motivated him to get out there and try a little harder. Obviously now they're at the end of his contract and all they have is Tyrod Taylor, so they have no negotiating leverage.

Having at least an NFL-caliber backup (which Tyrod is not) would give them a lot more flexibility to do things. Philadelphia, New England, and Green Bay have all drafted guys they've developed that they were either able to turn into good trade bait (Kolb, Cassel, Flynn) or actual starting prospects when their regular QB went down or was ineffective (Foles). We just never went down that road.

**AirFlacco** · 12-21-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Matt Ryan has it easy down in Atlanta, he's got a QB paradise. I'm not sure if there is any QB that has it better than him. Two amazing athletes to throw to, a HOF TE, a very good group of backs, solid Oline, a solid defense, and a nice warm dome to play in. On top of all that, the defenses in his division are about as soft as you can get.

But hey, Matt Ryan will never win a SB, and Flacco will never become elite, you know why? The world is gonna end soon, supposedly lol.

Youre right on again especially about the world-lol.

Hey - Atlanta fans are pissed off at Ryan more than Flacco fans up here because he keeps losing in the POs.

That dome might be a curse. The Dolts only won 1 SB with that dome. Even Jimmy expected to win a couple more.

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 12-21-2012, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

According to all the conspiracy loonies it's supposed to be later today, so here I am sat here doing nothing on my night shift scrolling through my facebook feed reading all this crap about the end of the world lol. Still, I do remember a lot more people being worried about Y2K haha.

It was supposed to happen on the 12th.
Y'know, on 12-12-12?

So, now the silly conspiracy loonies have switched it to the 21st?

It's a good thing there aren't 13 months or they'd be having a field day with 13-13-13.

**Mizerooskie** · 12-21-2012, 06:22 PM

I just hope the front office looks at he situation dispassionately and pays Flacco for what he is: a #10-20 QB in the NFL. He's had one season with a QB rating in the top 10 (7th in 2010) . Every other year, he's been lower than 10th: 22nd in 2008, 13th in 2009, 18th in 2011, 14th this season. That's an average rank of 14.8 in QB rating.

So he's an every-so-slightly above average starting QB. Pay him accordingly, and the team can absolutely win with him. Last season is evidence of that, IMO.

**bacchys** · 12-21-2012, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mizerooskie

I just hope the front office looks at he situation dispassionately and pays Flacco for what he is: a #10-20 QB in the NFL. He's had one season with a QB rating in the top 10 (7th in 2010) . Every other year, he's been lower than 10th: 22nd in 2008, 13th in 2009, 18th in 2011, 14th this season. That's an average rank of 14.8 in QB rating.

So he's an every-so-slightly above average starting QB. Pay him accordingly, and the team can absolutely win with him. Last season is evidence of that, IMO.

If they look at it dispassionately, they'll end up paying him between 5-10 money, leaning towards the 5. Before the contract is half up he'll be in that 10-20 range regardless of how well he's playing.

The size of contracts is unlikely to go down.

In this, I have faith in Ozzie. He's done a pretty good job of paying players while still being able to field a team that is in contention every year.

**The Excellector** · 12-22-2012, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

The team has a chance at competing with an average QB or with a game manager at QB if we can get back to playing elite defense, and can pound the ball all day behind an elite Oline. We won't have the luxury of that while giving Flacco big money. Flacco has shown that he's no more than slightly above game manager status this year.

So, we would still have to darn near rework the team for what you are suggesting to happen.

**The Excellector** · 12-22-2012, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by trailhiker85

This has to be my favorite line of the day.

It was like his anger wouldn't allow him to find a word that verbalized its intensity. lol.

**The Excellector** · 12-22-2012, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

That was going to be my exact response.

I mean.....HELLO!!! lololol.

**The Excellector** · 12-22-2012, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by iggyman555

if flacco wants elite money the ravens should pay him what they think hes worth and then joe should sue lee evans for the difference

In a nutshell.

**The Excellector** · 12-22-2012, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

You're making a lot of assumptions. The Ravens have a LOT of holes, have NOT done what they've needed to do to bolster this offense, and to assume that Joe will be smart to stay here because "here = winning; somewhere else = losing" is just not all that bright, IMO. Not under the current situation.

Especially, when you consider that he's been the one constant while all of these holes have developed. No one else can give another reason for the winning this year. It used to be the defense. Can't say that anymore. It used to be Ray Rice. Can't say that anymore. For some reason, people just don't want to say Joe.

**RavensRule21215** · 12-22-2012, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Especially, when you consider that he's been the one constant while all of these holes have developed. No one else can give another reason for the winning this year. It used to be the defense. Can't say that anymore. It used to be Ray Rice. Can't say that anymore. For some reason, people just don't want to say Joe.

People can -- and do -- find every other possible variable for the Ravens' success over the past 5 years OTHER than Joe. And I honestly just don't get it. The Ravens have had much better D's prior to Joe's arrival. But they've never been as consistent as they've been since he's gotten here. He's done everything they've asked him to do and he's done it with a great attitude, despite having his hands tied behind his back by a control freak OC, mediocre O-line, and less than elite supporting cast. He's been the model of consistency (the last 3 games notwithstanding), and yet HE'S the one being labeled "inconsistent". The Ravens FO has failed to build an entire offense around him, yet somehow it's all Joe's fault. Now, in some people's minds, it's up to Joe to prove something to them. What's he been doing the past 5 years? If that's not enough, then I don't know what is or ever will be for those people.

smh

**redmike34** · 12-22-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Especially, when you consider that he's been the one constant while all of these holes have developed. No one else can give another reason for the winning this year. It used to be the defense. Can't say that anymore. It used to be Ray Rice. Can't say that anymore. For some reason, people just don't want to say Joe.

Ridiculous. It's Joe and Rice and the rest of the offense and defense and special teams. Just like it's always been.

If you try to tell me that Flacco was a particularly large contributor to winning the, off the top of my head, KC and/or first PIT game, I'll politely tell you that you should enter rehab. The CIN, DAL, or OAK games? Sure, Joe was a major contributor. Our ST has been the biggest contributor to at least one win (PIT).

What the reality of this situation is, is that there's a contingent of people on this board who continually are looking at terrible Flacco statlines and effectively saying, "hey the numbers don't matter, he just WINS!" Which is, if I'm not mistaken, the same argument put forward by the multitude of Tebow acolytes last year. And hey, Tebow has accomplished what Joe hasn't--he beat PIT in the playoffs! He'll be available next year! DO IT OZ!!!!!

Or, maybe we could sit back and have a rational conversation about our QB that doesn't involve blind faith...

**Terpsfan82** · 12-22-2012, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by redmike34

Ridiculous. It's Joe and Rice and the rest of the offense and defense and special teams. Just like it's always been.

If you try to tell me that Flacco was a particularly large contributor to winning the, off the top of my head, KC and/or first PIT game, I'll politely tell you that you should enter rehab. The CIN, DAL, or OAK games? Sure, Joe was a major contributor. Our ST has been the biggest contributor to at least one win (PIT).

What the reality of this situation is, is that there's a contingent of people on this board who continually are looking at terrible Flacco statlines and effectively saying, "hey the numbers don't matter, he just WINS!" Which is, if I'm not mistaken, the same argument put forward by the multitude of Tebow acolytes last year. And hey, Tebow has accomplished what Joe hasn't--he beat PIT in the playoffs! He'll be available next year! DO IT OZ!!!!!

Or, maybe we could sit back and have a rational conversation about our QB that doesn't involve blind faith...

**leachisabeast** · 12-22-2012, 08:05 AM

LOL @ the people who think our winning success has started with Flacco. Absolute denial and crazyness to think that, laughing my ass off here. It's funny how the ENTIRE league and every other fan of every other team all know that the reason we've won most of our games have been down to our defense and Ray Rice, yet a portion of the Ravens fan base still have their fingers in their ears shouting, LEE EVANS LEE EVANS LEE EVANS... CUNDIFF! OUTPLAYED BRADY! I seriously think you guys support Flacco him self more than the actual team.

**leachisabeast** · 12-22-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

People can -- and do -- find every other possible variable for the Ravens' success over the past 5 years OTHER than Joe. And I honestly just don't get it. The Ravens have had much better D's prior to Joe's arrival.

Seriously?

After fielding the best defense in the history of football in 2000 (when we won the SB which we haven't done with Joe btw). Here are the defensive rankings that totally unsupport that argument.

This pro-football-reference.com that have a much better system of rankings defenses.

2001: 4th ranked overall defense
2002: 19th ranked defense
2003: 6th ranked defense
2004: 6th ranked defense
2005: 10th ranked defense
2006: Top ranked defense
2007: 22nd ranked defense

Now prior to this year lets take a look at the defensive rankings since Joes been here.

2008: 3rd ranked defense
2009: 3rd ranked defense
2010: 3rd ranked defense
2011: 3rd ranked defense

That seems like a much more consistent defensive unit than what we had over the years between 2000 and 2007 (before Joe got here), and that is in a much more passing friendly league. It's funny how this year we field one of the worst defenses and Joe has clearly struggled most this year with that fact. We are probably going to have a 10-6 or 9-7 season (off the back of some really lucky and fluky wins), which is lower than any other season since Joe's been here apart from 2009.

If you mean we had a much meaner looking defense that gave up penalty after penalty playing undisciplined football under the great Brian Billick and Rex Ryan, then maybe you do have a point. But our defenses since 08 until this year has been better overall.

And one more defining point that I notice a lot of people don't like hearing around here. Most of Joe's wins have been when Rice has touched the ball more than 20 times in a game and averaged over 4 yards a carry, not when Joe has thrown the ball more than 40 times a game.

It is clear that this team are successful when we pound the ball 30 times a game and play great defense, we need a combination of both back, while letting Flacco effectively run the game at a reasonable price, not 100 million. We are just not a passing team, we have never had success trying to air it our on a consistent basis.