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  1. #157

    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    So this entire situation is everyone's fault except Joe's? I don't want to paint you in an unfair light, but I think you've backed yourself into a corner here. You appear to place your fan-hood and appreciation more in Joe Flacco than in the Baltimore Ravens. That's fine, I actually have no problem with that, but it needs to be acknowledged. If I'm wrong, tell me so, but if I'm right I think there's a fundamental disconnect that renders this discussion moot.

    I like Joe Flacco and I wish him success. As a member of the Baltimore Ravens I wish him all the football success in the world, Super Bowls every year, etc. etc.

    If he were to no longer be a member of the Baltimore Ravens, I would still wish him all the football success in the world--except against the Ravens. Only one team can hoist the Lombardi at the end of the year, and I would prefer it to be the Ravens, not Joe Flacco's team. I would continue to wish him all the personal success in the world, of course. He's a good young man and I appreciate what he has done and is doing for us. But he is not bigger than the team just as much as Jarret Johnson, Cory Redding, Jamie Sharper, Jamal Lewis, etc. etc. were not bigger than the team.

    I don't know if the Ravens have handled this entire situation optimally, but what I do know is that there is no changing the past. In the present, right now, we can't afford to pay Joe Flacco what he clearly isn't worth. Ultimately, it's up to him to sign on the dotted line. I hope the two sides negotiate down to a position that works, but if they can't get to a place where both are comfortable, it will end with Flacco walking away from an offer, and it's irrelevant whether that offer was "disrespectful" or whatever. All that matters is that team management have to do what is best for the team.
    I don't think I've painted myself into ANY corner. I've stated that the negotiations are a two way street, plain and simple. As far as which side had brought more to the offense, Joe, or the Ravens, I firmly believe that Joe has brought more to the offense than the Ravens have brought to HELP Joe on the offensive side of the ball. You disagree? Fine. You feel that's "painting myself into a corner"? Fine. What I feel is that the RAVENS have painted themselves into a corner by several moves and non moves that have impacted the offense and their relationship with their supposed franchise QB. And now the chickens are coming home to roost.




  2. #158

    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    omg... you actually believe that?
    Yes. I do.




  3. #159
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    So this entire situation is everyone's fault except Joe's? I don't want to paint you in an unfair light, but I think you've backed yourself into a corner here. You appear to place your fan-hood and appreciation more in Joe Flacco than in the Baltimore Ravens. That's fine, I actually have no problem with that, but it needs to be acknowledged. If I'm wrong, tell me so, but if I'm right I think there's a fundamental disconnect that renders this discussion moot.

    I like Joe Flacco and I wish him success. As a member of the Baltimore Ravens I wish him all the football success in the world, Super Bowls every year, etc. etc.

    If he were to no longer be a member of the Baltimore Ravens, I would still wish him all the football success in the world--except against the Ravens. Only one team can hoist the Lombardi at the end of the year, and I would prefer it to be the Ravens, not Joe Flacco's team. I would continue to wish him all the personal success in the world, of course. He's a good young man and I appreciate what he has done and is doing for us. But he is not bigger than the team just as much as Jarret Johnson, Cory Redding, Jamie Sharper, Jamal Lewis, etc. etc. were not bigger than the team.

    I don't know if the Ravens have handled this entire situation optimally, but what I do know is that there is no changing the past. In the present, right now, we can't afford to pay Joe Flacco what he clearly isn't worth. Ultimately, it's up to him to sign on the dotted line. I hope the two sides negotiate down to a position that works, but if they can't get to a place where both are comfortable, it will end with Flacco walking away from an offer, and it's irrelevant whether that offer was "disrespectful" or whatever. All that matters is that team management have to do what is best for the team.
    This is exactly what I think too, but I guess I'm just a total Flacco basher for saying he isn't worth top 5 money lol.




  4. #160
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    And I think there was a feature on Pro Football Focus about how Manning actually played better under pressure than when he was NOT pressured last year. It's not the first time a QB has done that, Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers both play great under pressure, in part because when elite QBs face heavy pressure it usually means the defense is selling out and has holes on the back end. Elite QBs exploit that.

    No matter how you feel about Flacco, over the last two years it's inarguable that he has simply crumbled whenever he's faced pressure, and that's going to be a big obstacle to him breaking into another level. The vast majority of NFL QBs look great when given plenty of time in the pocket, so what he does from a dirty pocket is what has the chance to separate him from the pack. So far it's not been pretty, although he was actually better under pressure in 09 and 10.
    I believe Filmstudy has a lot of evidence that would support the exact opposite. In the face of pressure, Flacco has historically responded well. Don't quote me on that, but I definitely remember Filmstudy posting things stipulating just that.
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  5. #161
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Yes. I do.
    Then please explain AnQuan Boldin (former pro bowler), Ray Rice (All pro back), Marshall Yanda (All pro guard), Vonta Leach (best lead blocker in the league), Torrey Smith (Promising young player). Ben Grubbs (Not here anymore, but was a pro bowl guard), Matt Birk (Made 6 pro bowls with Minnesota).

    Clearly is far from one of the worse units in the league. Coaching is pretty bad, I'll give you that.




  6. #162
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    omg... you actually believe that?

    I seem to remember all the talk about how the Denver Broncos had zero talent on offense before Manning came to town, how they had no targets and one of the worse Olines in football. Suddenly Peyton has made them all look like all pros.

    It's funny how AnQuan Boldin was an out and out pro bowler before he came to Baltimore, and now he's apart of of one of the worse WR core in the league?

    It isn't the most talented offense in the league, maybe not even a top 10/12, but it certainly isn't among the worst units in the NFL.
    Yea, that's called Cam Cameron and not playing beside Larry Fitzgerald for most of his career.

    There is a shit load of evidence to support that Boldin hasn't been utilized properly since coming to Baltimore. If you're going to blame that on Flacco too, well then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I misread your post.
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  7. #163

    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Then please explain AnQuan Boldin (former pro bowler), Ray Rice (All pro back), Marshall Yanda (All pro guard), Vonta Leach (best lead blocker in the league), Torrey Smith (Promising young player). Ben Grubbs (Not here anymore, but was a pro bowl guard), Matt Birk (Made 6 pro bowls with Minnesota).

    Clearly is far from one of the worse units in the league. Coaching is pretty bad, I'll give you that.
    No thanks. I'm really not interested in debating this point any further. Let's just see how it all plays out, shall we? Thanks.




  8. #164
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Yea, that's called Cam Cameron and not playing beside Larry Fitzgerald for most of his career.

    There is a shit load of evidence to support that Boldin hasn't been utilized properly since coming to Baltimore. If you're going to blame that on Flacco too, well then I don't know what to tell you.
    lol, I didn't once blame Flacco for that. My argument is that this is clearly not one of the worse offensive units (talent wise) in the league.

    Although, I think Kurt Warner was a better QB than Flacco will ever be.




  9. #165

    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Yea, that's called Cam Cameron and not playing beside Larry Fitzgerald for most of his career.

    There is a shit load of evidence to support that Boldin hasn't been utilized properly since coming to Baltimore. If you're going to blame that on Flacco too, well then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I misread your post.
    Plus Boldin has lost a step or two; he's older. And he's dropped a lot of passes.




  10. #166
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    lol, I didn't once blame Flacco for that. My argument is that this is clearly not one of the worse offensive units (talent wise) in the league.

    Although, I think Kurt Warner was a better QB than Flacco will ever be.
    Kurt Warner was nothing short of amazing minus one year of playing back up to Eli. You won't hear any disagreement on that sentiment from me, or most posters.
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  11. #167
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Plus Boldin has lost a step or two; he's older. And he's dropped a lot of passes.
    And, to me, this is a BIG deal.

    It isn't like every pass that gets thrown his way is contested. He has dropped a fair amount of passes that hit him square in the hands...including a go-ahead TD against the Steelers in the playoffs that could have won the game for Baltimore.

    Boldin hasn't been used right at all in Baltimore's offense, but he also hasn't done a whole lot for himself either with the dropped passes, penalties, and inability to get open consistently.
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  12. #168
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    Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    To a certain extent, sure. But there really are few teams that have a worse O-line, coaching staff, and WR group than the Ravens. I'm sure with a little effort, Joe and his agent could find a team that's an upgrade, on offense at least, over the Ravens.
    I don't see too many quality organizations looking to spend the huge money that Flacco wants to get him. The Eagles are probably the best of the group and their o-line is much worse than ours. The others would be the Raiders, Cardinals, Bills...Those teams all have some serious issues and not much history of fixing them. If Joe does leave I think it could be a while before he is able to do as well as he has here.
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