Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

**PGCountyRaven85** · 12-18-2012, 01:39 PM

I think it's obvious at this point that this overly cautious front office strategy must be shelved over the next couple years so this team is able to compete long-term. This is stuff like trading down into the second round for quantity over quality, overpaying old guys with bloating contracts to the point that we can never make any aggressive moves in free agency. I'm not saying we need to become Daniel Snyder or Jerry Jones, but Ozzie/DeCosta or whoever need to stop tip-toeing through the off season instead of watching the Denvers, the New England's, the Houston's etc. get younger, faster, and better while we're anchored to bloated contracts for guys who are no longer producing. So what does this all mean? It means we need to make moves like...

Release Ray Lewis-He's been great, the best of all time at his position, but it's time to move on. He's 37 and making like 4 million next year. We could use that dough elsewhere.
Let Ed Reed test free agency/retire.-He's been great over the years, but this years, his game has come apart. He's constantly out of position on those big plays in the seams. His gambling is nothing, he's been doing this for years, but now he's slower and can't recover. He's also done a lot of bad guessing that's cost this team big. Don't even get me started on his tackling, it's been bad for at least 3 years, this year it's been taken to new levels of shittiness. Getting hurdled over twice this year? By Brent Celek and Knowshawn Moreno? C'mon!
Matt Birk-This guy is "smart" and all, but he gets destroyed by Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton and other dominant tackles and his advantage in technique can no longer cover up his physical limitations. The quarterback can't move up into the pocket when the center is on his ass every play.
Boldin-I loved the move when they made it, but he's no worth the five or so million they're scheduled to pay him next year. We need to use that money to go after a true number 1 receiver like Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Danny Amendola or see what Doss can do in an expanded role.
Bobbie Williams-This guy is old and just doesn't have it anymore. 'Nuff said.
Oher-move this guy to guard, so he doesn't have to deal with speed rushers at all. He's a dominant run blocker but as we all can see, he's very mediocre in pass pro.
With the savings from these moves, we can go get that left tackle from Kansas City or maybe Jake Long. Then we can go 100% defense and OL depth in this draft because the bottom line is this team is getting destroyed in the trenches to an extent that I've not seen in years.

**Captain Silver** · 12-18-2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85

I think it's obvious at this point that this overly cautious front office strategy must be shelved over the next couple years so this team is able to compete long-term. This is stuff like trading down into the second round for quantity over quality, overpaying old guys with bloating contracts to the point that we can never make any aggressive moves in free agency. I'm not saying we need to become Daniel Snyder or Jerry Jones, but Ozzie/DeCosta or whoever need to stop tip-toeing through the off season instead of watching the Denvers, the New England's, the Houston's etc. get younger, faster, and better while we're anchored to bloated contracts for guys who are no longer producing. So what does this all mean? It means we need to make moves like...

Release Ray Lewis-He's been great, the best of all time at his position, but it's time to move on. He's 37 and making like 4 million next year. We could use that dough elsewhere.
Let Ed Reed test free agency/retire.-He's been great over the years, but this years, his game has come apart. He's constantly out of position on those big plays in the seams. His gambling is nothing, he's been doing this for years, but now he's slower and can't recover. He's also done a lot of bad guessing that's cost this team big. Don't even get me started on his tackling, it's been bad for at least 3 years, this year it's been taken to new levels of shittiness. Getting hurdled over twice this year? By Brent Celek and Knowshawn Moreno? C'mon!
Matt Birk-This guy is "smart" and all, but he gets destroyed by Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton and other dominant tackles and his advantage in technique can no longer cover up his physical limitations. The quarterback can't move up into the pocket when the center is on his ass every play.
Boldin-I loved the move when they made it, but he's no worth the five or so million they're scheduled to pay him next year. We need to use that money to go after a true number 1 receiver like Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Danny Amendola or see what Doss can do in an expanded role.
Bobbie Williams-This guy is old and just doesn't have it anymore. 'Nuff said.
Oher-move this guy to guard, so he doesn't have to deal with speed rushers at all. He's a dominant run blocker but as we all can see, he's very mediocre in pass pro.
With the savings from these moves, we can go get that left tackle from Kansas City or maybe Jake Long. Then we can go 100% defense and OL depth in this draft because the bottom line is this team is getting destroyed in the trenches to an extent that I've not seen in years.

I like it, now what about Flacco? Do you keep Leach?

**PGCountyRaven85** · 12-18-2012, 01:51 PM

We have to keep Flacco, unless he expects a Drew Brees contract. I'd like to see what he could do in a new system. As for Leach, I think he's important and we should try to extend him to save some cap. I like this added dimension we've been seeing from him in recent weeks, as an outlet receiver. He has some of the best hands on this team.

**Captain Silver** · 12-18-2012, 01:53 PM

I am inclined to agree, no matter how bad Flacco has looked, I am sure if he played behind Brady's or Manning's lines with those weapons, he'd be fine.

I doubt Leach would see cash like he got from us with the NFL devaluing the FB spot. He'd be smart to extend. Isn't this the last year of his contract here?

**darthpemo** · 12-18-2012, 01:55 PM

We should keep Leach. I love the guy... always looking to hit the first available guy even when he catches the football.

**Benny8444** · 12-18-2012, 02:02 PM

i believe leach is under contract for next year

I would keep boldin but ask him to take a pay cut if he wont cut him and see if he can get what we are offering him via his pay cut. chances are we wont with other WRs out there in FA who are younger and faster.

As for Ray. I would do the same his cap number is close to 9M next year all in Base salery, i would ask him to cut to 4 and if we wont, wish him luck getting close to 5M anyplace else.

Birk needs to be cut.

Flacco stays, the only way we let him go is via trade, franchise QBs are not a dime a dozen like RBs and WRs. We can get at least a 1st and 3rd for him. possibly 2 #1s if a team is desprate. I would offer him the same contract we offered in the off season it would save cap space vs the tag and we know he is capable of leading this team to the playoffs. Use the savings to make the O line better.

**Ravenalytics** · 12-18-2012, 02:12 PM

I don't think anyone on defense needs to go. Look at the starters who are playing hurt, or have missed time:

Lewis (HoF), Reed (HoF), Webb (Elite corner), Ngata (All-Pro), Suggs (All-Pro) Pollard, McPhee, Ellerbe, Jimmy Smith.

That's 9 people! Reed looked fine when Webb was still healthy. Going into last week, we had the number one red zone defense. I think it's pretty admirable in light of the circumstance.

I just read PFF today, and encouraging news is that Upshaw is turning into a monster run stopper, and Corey Graham is doing a very admirable job at corner. Going into next season with that line up healthy, I think we look good.

I think the part of the defense that needs the most work is the line. Ngata just has almost no help.

The offense should get back to being a power football team. I don't think they'll find a QB better than Flacco anytime soon, but Flacco just can't carry a team on his shoulders. I think the best thing is to emulate San Francisco with Alex Smith.

Invest in a powerful interior line so you can run a zone blocking scheme. If you get a guy like Barrett Jones in the draft, get Yanda back healthy, and then acquire a capable G/C in FA, suddenly Oher and Osemele don't look so bad on the outside. Combine that with Leach in the backfield more frequently, not only do you have better protection for Joe, but you suddenly have many more options in the run game.

We have great talent in the running back team. We should capitalize on it.

I'm in favor of Boldin staying only because he's so great at blocking down field. We don't have a tight end who can do that yet.

**PGCountyRaven85** · 12-18-2012, 01:57 PM

Yeah, he signed a two deal and yes, Flacco can make all the throws and he's still young. I hope he takes a Fitzpatrick/Schaub type deal so that the team actually has money to build. Unless he likes getting sacked 43 times/season.

**Benny8444** · 12-18-2012, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85

Yeah, he signed a two deal and yes, Flacco can make all the throws and he's still young. I hope he takes a Fitzpatrick/Schaub type deal so that the team actually has money to build. Unless he likes getting sacked 43 times/season.

he will get a rivers type deal or the deal they offered him in camp. He would be stupid not to take it now.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-18-2012, 01:57 PM

Those guys are likely going to be salary cap casualties anyway, I wouldn't call it a purge. They have to tag Flacco or sign him to a fair deal. Leach, I think it depends on the new OC and their system.

I thought you meant a real purge - the priest, the waterboy, everyone

**Iscull** · 12-19-2012, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Those guys are likely going to be salary cap casualties anyway, I wouldn't call it a purge. They have to tag Flacco or sign him to a fair deal. Leach, I think it depends on the new OC and their system.

I thought you meant a real purge - the priest, the waterboy, everyone

I think if Norv comes here next year, he will keep Leach. He's a modern day version of Lorenzo Neal.

**Paintballguy** · 12-18-2012, 02:31 PM

I wouldn't be bothered if Ngata went elsewhere. I'd rather have a better oline.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-18-2012, 02:36 PM

Agreed; some of these guys with huge contracts are going to be scrutinized. If a team is willing to over pay for them, then it has to be something the team considers

**ravensnhokies** · 12-18-2012, 02:41 PM

Ngata is not the same player he was 3 years ago. He is beyond his prime, b/c injuries have caught up to him. And he really has never developed into a passrushing Sam Adams type DT. I'm all for shipping him off in a Richard Seymour type deal. Dont think we'd get too much for him... maybe a 2nd round. At least we'd obtain a lot of cap space for OL help, #1 WR.

**pslholder96** · 12-18-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85

I think it's obvious at this point that this overly cautious front office strategy must be shelved over the next couple years so this team is able to compete long-term. This is stuff like trading down into the second round for quantity over quality, overpaying old guys with bloating contracts to the point that we can never make any aggressive moves in free agency. I'm not saying we need to become Daniel Snyder or Jerry Jones, but Ozzie/DeCosta or whoever need to stop tip-toeing through the off season instead of watching the Denvers, the New England's, the Houston's etc. get younger, faster, and better while we're anchored to bloated contracts for guys who are no longer producing. So what does this all mean? It means we need to make moves like...

Release Ray Lewis-He's been great, the best of all time at his position, but it's time to move on. He's 37 and making like 4 million next year. We could use that dough elsewhere.
Let Ed Reed test free agency/retire.-He's been great over the years, but this years, his game has come apart. He's constantly out of position on those big plays in the seams. His gambling is nothing, he's been doing this for years, but now he's slower and can't recover. He's also done a lot of bad guessing that's cost this team big. Don't even get me started on his tackling, it's been bad for at least 3 years, this year it's been taken to new levels of shittiness. Getting hurdled over twice this year? By Brent Celek and Knowshawn Moreno? C'mon!
Matt Birk-This guy is "smart" and all, but he gets destroyed by Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton and other dominant tackles and his advantage in technique can no longer cover up his physical limitations. The quarterback can't move up into the pocket when the center is on his ass every play.
Boldin-I loved the move when they made it, but he's no worth the five or so million they're scheduled to pay him next year. We need to use that money to go after a true number 1 receiver like Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Danny Amendola or see what Doss can do in an expanded role.
Bobbie Williams-This guy is old and just doesn't have it anymore. 'Nuff said.
Oher-move this guy to guard, so he doesn't have to deal with speed rushers at all. He's a dominant run blocker but as we all can see, he's very mediocre in pass pro.
With the savings from these moves, we can go get that left tackle from Kansas City or maybe Jake Long. Then we can go 100% defense and OL depth in this draft because the bottom line is this team is getting destroyed in the trenches to an extent that I've not seen in years.

You need to define what "overly cautious" is but whatever strategy we decide the Ravens have been using for the last 5 years is the same strategy that has allowed us to compete for the last 5 years. As for aggressive moves in free agency, very few teams do it and there's a reason for it. You've got to build through the draft and that's where the problem lies. We've come up with a few misses lately although it's probably to premature to rate any draft class until 3 years out.
The cap also impacts off season strategy. Part of the reason why the ravens have put a winning product on the field is because they've been able to retain alot of their players with market value contracts. In others words they've been able to spent up to the cap. Now they are forecasting 2013 cap to come in flat and all indications are is that 2014 could be the same. Many people didn't expect the cap especially in 2013 to come in flat compared to 2012 so this hinders the ravens a little as well.

And by the way there's no cap savings if Ed Reed were to go elsewhere. I believe the same is true for Bobbie Williams. He was on a 1 year deal if memory serves me correctly.

**Benny8444** · 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM

Ngata is not being traded so get that idea aside, Flacco would be tagged and traded before Ngata is.

Lewis will have to take a pay cut or be cut and re signed, Boldin is in the same boat.

Birk will be cut or retire. I would still sign flacco to the deal we were offering him. If we tagged him we would take a 14M hit and what happens if we dont sign him in the off season and he plays under the tag? do you tag him again for 17-20M, do you just give him what he wants. The team cant afford big cap hits but on the other hand they dont want to overpay a player. But when it comes to Flacco a Franchise QB, they are all really overpaid when they re sign. The should sign him not tag him for cap reasons, its the best move going forward

I remember reading that the cap will go up big in 2014 when the new TV deal hits. so not is the time to sign Flacco. We have needs in the off season but not as many as most people think. We are good at WR/RB/TE/OLB/CB/RG/RT/LG (if they move KO). Those holes can be found in the draft FA. Remember we will be getting quite a few comp picks this year prob a 3rd and 4th and a 5th or 2 6ths. with those type extra picks i can see this being the year we trade up vs down.

Lets say our pick is 25 it wont cost too much to move up to around 17-18. same in the 2nd round if we wanted to move up. we have the ammo to do so. Last year we got the guy we wanted in the 2nd round and he was the top guy on our board when we made the trade. so that worked out.

**wickedsolo** · 12-18-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Benny8444

Ngata is not being traded so get that idea aside, Flacco would be tagged and traded before Ngata is.

Disagree wholeheartedly.

The odds of finding/developing a starting-caliber DT in the draft is significantly easier than finding an above average starting QB.

If Miami calls and offers one of their 2nd round picks and their 3rd or 4th rounder for this year and maybe another mid round pick next year, I'm all ears. Ngata is going to be almost 30 by the time next season starts and he hasn't had a full healthy season in over 2 years.

At some point you have to look at Art Jones, Pernell McPhee, and DeAngelo Tyson and think that is a pretty decent DT rotation. Toss in Ryan McBean and maybe pick up a Henry Melton, Glenn Dorsey, or Terrance Knighton and you've still got a nice blend of run stoppers and pass rushers at DT.

This gives you breathing room in case you do have to franchise Flacco. It also allows the team to keep Kruger (which DE pass rushers are not easy to come by and Kruger looks to be coming into his own right now) and it also allows the team to maybe go out and get a Greg Jennings or Mike Wallace.

And like others have said, if Flacco doesn't work out as a franchise guy, well then you're in better position (pick wise) to maybe move up in 2014 and go after someone like Brynn Renner out of UNC or Vanderburg out of Iowa.

**PalladinInNC** · 12-18-2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Disagree wholeheartedly.

The odds of finding/developing a starting-caliber DT in the draft is significantly easier than finding an above average starting QB.

If Miami calls and offers one of their 2nd round picks and their 3rd or 4th rounder for this year and maybe another mid round pick next year, I'm all ears. Ngata is going to be almost 30 by the time next season starts and he hasn't had a full healthy season in over 2 years.

At some point you have to look at Art Jones, Pernell McPhee, and DeAngelo Tyson and think that is a pretty decent DT rotation. Toss in Ryan McBean and maybe pick up a Henry Melton, Glenn Dorsey, or Terrance Knighton and you've still got a nice blend of run stoppers and pass rushers at DT.

This gives you breathing room in case you do have to franchise Flacco. It also allows the team to keep Kruger (which DE pass rushers are not easy to come by and Kruger looks to be coming into his own right now) and it also allows the team to maybe go out and get a Greg Jennings or Mike Wallace.

And like others have said, if Flacco doesn't work out as a franchise guy, well then you're in better position (pick wise) to maybe move up in 2014 and go after someone like Brynn Renner out of UNC or Vanderburg out of Iowa.

Miami has two 2nd and 3rd picks this year so I definitely would agree with you if they came calling with a 2nd and a 3rd and a mid-rounder in 2014 but would not go for a 2nd and a 4th and a mid-rounder in 2014. However, if they came calling with a 2nd rounder and both of their 3rd rounders this year or both of their 2nd rounders this year and a mid or late rounder in 2014, then I'd say to Monty Hall (Ozzie), Let's Make a Deal!!!

**Benny8444** · 12-18-2012, 03:00 PM

i can also see money saved by not tendering all our RFAs or giving some lower than normal tenders (Dickson) is a prime exapmle for a low tender if someone bites we get a 3rd. and save a ton on the cap.

**mrfactoid** · 12-18-2012, 03:11 PM

Joe's gonna eat up your oline and d players you need to get back on top. Ndata hasn't played well for a few years whether its injuries or not. Joe and RR will cost about 1/6 of our salary cap. Thats alot of money when one can't run and the other can't throw without a good line in front of them. They will be in the same position for the next few years putting in patch work cheap oline players with the same results. Haven't we seen this movie for the past few years? They have to make up their mind what they want. If its slinging the ball downfield then you shouldn't have signed RR to a long term deal and brought some stud lineman instead. Your not going to have both which is what everyone wants.