Another 2011 Style Purge is Needed

[Benny8444]

I don't know if they can really afford to trade up...at least far considering we need a lot of our picks due to having a bunch of holes.

But like you guys have said, the time of trading back is over. I can't remember the last time that Ozzie traded out of the first round that he was successful later on with the picks he gained.

I thought it would benefit us if he actually looked to the future and took a future high pick, but Ozzie just seems way too content to load up on 3rd and 4th rounders to trade 20 spots back from his spot in the first round.

Even in 2008...I thought it was awful...absolutely awful at the time that we didn't get Jax to give us a #1 pick the following year...instead Ozzie dropped back damn near 20 spots and frankly I was kind of pissed that we moved that far back for a couple 3rd and 4th rounders. He should have looked into it in 2010 as well.

I agree that oz should have asked for a 1st rd pick the following year but had that been the case we would have gotten nothing that year except for the swap in picks which means we would not have had the ammo to move up 6 spots in the 1st rd to get flacco. I am sure that option was there but oz wanted the picks in that draft. and i would value the 2 3rds and a 4th about the same as a mid 1st rounder which is what jax had in 2009.

Bottom line is Oz likes picks and we all know that and he also HATES parting with picks unless it is for a huge need like Boldin was in 2010. this year we have a lot of picks (comp picks) so i think this is the year we move up and get that impact player. D Line is deep so we could sit where we are and pick and move up in the 2nd round.

[B-more Ravor]

Everyone can just stop talking about trading or releasing Ngata.

From a Cap perspective, he's untradeable and unreleaseable.

He got a $25M signing bonus in 2011 (prorated over 5 years) and a $10M option bonus last March (prorated over 4 years).

Whether traded or released, the acceleration from those bonuses ($22.5M) would far outweigh what he'll count against the Cap in 2013 ($11.5M).

[RavensRule21215]

Everyone can just stop talking about trading or releasing Ngata.

From a Cap perspective, he's untradeable and unreleaseable.

He got a $25M signing bonus in 2011 (prorated over 5 years) and a $10M option bonus last March (prorated over 4 years).

Whether traded or released, the acceleration from those bonuses would far outweigh what he'll count against the Cap in 2013.

Since you're familiar with how contracts and the cap works, would you say that was a good, smart contract from the Ravens' perspective?

[wickedsolo]

Stockpile picks and young players for a year or two and then tank a season for Johnny Football?


...I'll see myself out.

No thanks.

The kid is a great collegiate player, but he's 6' and barely 200lbs. You'd be hard pressed to find any teams willing to use a high 1st round pick on Manziel.

[wickedsolo]

Everyone can just stop talking about trading or releasing Ngata.

From a Cap perspective, he's untradeable and unreleaseable.

He got a $25M signing bonus in 2011 (prorated over 5 years) and a $10M option bonus last March (prorated over 4 years).

Whether traded or released, the acceleration from those bonuses ($22.5M) would far outweigh what he'll count against the Cap in 2013 ($11.5M).

Yea, I figured that the money counted against the cap would be pretty ridiculous.

Like I said...just speculation.

I do wonder if the Ravens regret giving him that contract though.

[Ravenswintitle]

Everyone can just stop talking about trading or releasing Ngata.

From a Cap perspective, he's untradeable and unreleaseable.

He got a $25M signing bonus in 2011 (prorated over 5 years) and a $10M option bonus last March (prorated over 4 years).

Whether traded or released, the acceleration from those bonuses ($22.5M) would far outweigh what he'll count against the Cap in 2013 ($11.5M).

We almost had a deal worked out with Carolina

[B-more Ravor]

Since you're familiar with how contracts and the cap works, would you say that was a good, smart contract from the Ravens' perspective?

I think at the time it was a market deal. Ngata was a Pro-Bowl player in his prime, who never had been significantly hurt and who was probably the DPOY for the 1st half of 2011. Then he got banged up and everything appears to have changed.

I do recognize the point you made in the other thread about what positions should be spent on and what ones shouldn't and I agree that DT is a spot that perhaps shouldn't be spent on - especially to the level of Ngata's deal.

That said, there weren't many - I don't actually recall any - nationally that thought twice about that deal.

A player of his caliber rarely makes it to the FA market because they are most often re-signed - to significant deals.

[B-more Ravor]

We almost had a deal worked out with Carolina

Oh, sorry.

[RavensRule21215]

I think at the time it was a market deal. Ngata was a Pro-Bowl player in his prime, who never had been significantly hurt and who was probably the DPOY for the 1st half of 2011. Then he got banged up and everything appears to have changed.

I do recognize the point you made in the other thread about what positions should be spent on and what ones shouldn't and I agree that DT is a spot that perhaps shouldn't be spent on - especially to the level of Ngata's deal.

That said, there weren't many - I don't actually recall any - nationally that thought twice about that deal.

A player of his caliber rarely makes it to the FA market because they are most often re-signed - to significant deals.

Thanks. And we all know...hindsight is always 20/20. I was just asking more about the inner workings of the contract itself. Sort of like what happened with the McGahee thing. In retrospect, IIRC, it was just set up in a way that seemed to work against the Ravens. And I was wondering if Ngata's contract was more Ngata-friendly than Ravens-friendly.

[wickedsolo]

We almost had a deal worked out with Carolina

[houstonravensfan]

When we list guys you need to go, I wonder what Steve is thinking about Oz? We have an old, thin, overpaid team. Is Oz considered blameless?

[RavensRule21215]

When we list guys you need to go, I wonder what Steve is thinking about Oz? We have an old, thin, overpaid team. Is Oz considered blameless?

Oz is still one of the best. People like to point out the players that haven't worked out, and they point to Rice as one of the few bright spots, but they ignore a lot of other picks that have worked out.

As far as what Steve's thinking...I wouldn't even hazard a guess. But I'm pretty sure Oz is safe/untouchable.

[B-more Ravor]

Thanks. And we all know...hindsight is always 20/20. I was just asking more about the inner workings of the contract itself. Sort of like what happened with the McGahee thing. In retrospect, IIRC, it was just set up in a way that seemed to work against the Ravens. And I was wondering if Ngata's contract was more Ngata-friendly than Ravens-friendly.

The McGahee deal, now that was definitely a horrible deal from the get-go.

[RavensRule21215]

The McGahee deal, now that was definitely a horrible deal from the get-go.

So hopefully they learned their lesson from that fiasco.

[esmd]

Thanks for the info, I was thinking that could be the case. And I agree completely on the McGahee trade. GOTA and I were two of the few back on the old sun boards who didn't like that trade from day 1.

[Bhcforlife]

No thanks.

The kid is a great collegiate player, but he's 6' and barely 200lbs. You'd be hard pressed to find any teams willing to use a high 1st round pick on Manziel.

If the 2012 draft were redone today, 5'11'', 205lb Russell Wilson goes #8 to Miami. If Manziel continues to develop his skills and continues to dominate over the next two/three years, I see no reason to think he won't be a top 15 pick. The idea that a QB has to be 6'5'' to be successful has gone out the window these days with guys like Wilson, Brees, Griffin, etc.

[GOTA]

Thanks for the info, I was thinking that could be the case. And I agree completely on the McGahee trade. GOTA and I were two of the few back on the old sun boards who didn't like that trade from day 1.

That trade drove me crazy. Giving up draft picks and a lot of money for anyone doesn't often seem to work out. You get whacked with draft picks early and then with the balloon year of the salary late. You better be 100% certain before you make that kind of move.

[wickedsolo]

If the 2012 draft were redone today, 5'11'', 205lb Russell Wilson goes #8 to Miami. If Manziel continues to develop his skills and continues to dominate over the next two/three years, I see no reason to think he won't be a top 15 pick. The idea that a QB has to be 6'5'' to be successful has gone out the window these days with guys like Wilson, Brees, Griffin, etc.

Russell Wilson was, and is, a much more accomplished passer than Johnny Football.

I hear you, but it isn't like NFL scouts were not aware of what Russell Wilson was able to do. That still didn't stop teams from passing on him 3 times over.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that the Dolphins would STILL take Tannehill at #8. Not Wilson. The Dolphins hired Mike Sherman for a reason...they were targeting Tannehill (who played for Sherman at Texas A&M) all along.

[BigPlayReceiver]

We almost had a deal worked out with Carolina

hahaha...sabotaged by our own people!

[BigPlayReceiver]

Everyone can just stop talking about trading or releasing Ngata.

From a Cap perspective, he's untradeable and unreleaseable.

He got a $25M signing bonus in 2011 (prorated over 5 years) and a $10M option bonus last March (prorated over 4 years).

Whether traded or released, the acceleration from those bonuses ($22.5M) would far outweigh what he'll count against the Cap in 2013 ($11.5M).

Thanks for the calibration.
I'm still gonna make the trade in Madden though!