Ogden called it

**Jsmoove** · 12-20-2012, 03:53 PM

http://russellstreetreport.com/jonat...ffensive-line/

JO pretty much nail it on the head and pretty much confirmed the "doghouse"

**Thrall** · 12-20-2012, 03:58 PM

I think he was being nice to Oher.

**bacchys** · 12-20-2012, 04:07 PM

I don't think he's using "dog house" in the same way some fans here are.

The "dog house" according to Ogden is on McKinnie: what he's not doing to supplant Oher at LT.

Most of the "dog house" believers here think Harbaugh refuses to play someone who is better because he's mad at them- that despite what they do to earn a place on the field, Harbaugh isn't going to allow it.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-20-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

http://russellstreetreport.com/jonat...ffensive-line/

JO pretty much nail it on the head and pretty much confirmed the "doghouse"

How you could possibly misread his use of the term doghouse is beyond me. Read the context. "“I’m assuming that if [coaches] do like they’ve always done, they’re evaluating practice tape every single day, every play, every snap. If he’s not on the field by now, it’s obvious he’s not doing what he needs to be doing in the weight room, in the film room to say to the coaches, ‘Hey, Mike is struggling, I’m ready to go back in there, put me in, coach.”

He's not describing the mythical doghouse of this board that some people love to insist exists. He meant (and clearly articulated) that McKinnie isn't showing the effort or desire to play and that he's not giving the coaches a reason to assume he'd be an upgrade. You literally saw the word doghouse and ignored EVERYTHING in the paragraph to come to the conclusion you did.

**lobachevsky** · 12-20-2012, 05:02 PM

Everyone grab something & hold on tight:

I agree 100% with Slammin' Spammy Bot.

Re "doghouse," I stand also with Inigo Montoya: You killed my father, prepare to die--

(-um, sorry, wrong quote. This one: ) You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

**Section 502 Raven** · 12-20-2012, 06:33 PM

it refreshing to have someone be direct versus beat around the bush. in essence, JO is confirming what many know about oher at left tackle but won't admit.

**pslholder96** · 12-20-2012, 06:57 PM

Sorry I don't see anything earth shattering here. We know Oher is not a natural LT and we know there's a doghouse.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 07:19 PM

JO said that Oher is a good LT, and that's being pretty nice IMO.

Oher can be a great guard though.

**NC Raven** · 12-20-2012, 07:44 PM

Of all the dumb ideas floated by small segments of Raven fans, the "McKinnie is better but the coaches won't play him because they don't like him" argument is up there among the most delusional.

I was about to say it was the most delusional, but then I remembered all those "Fire Harbaugh" comments and realized that the tin-foil hat brigade is outnumbered by the "no fucking idea about anything" brigade.

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by NC Raven

Of all the dumb ideas floated by small segments of Raven fans, the "McKinnie is better but the coaches won't play him because they don't like him" argument is up there among the most delusional.

I was about to say it was the most delusional, but then I remembered all those "Fire Harbaugh" comments and realized that the tin-foil hat brigade is outnumbered by the "no fucking idea about anything" brigade.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner

**downside52** · 12-21-2012, 03:31 AM

It's one thing for me to think it, and another to hear Jon Ogden say it.

I dont want to speak for anyone else here, but JO knows quite a bit about playing the Tackle position than I do. I value his opinion a lot.

**Jsmoove** · 12-21-2012, 11:20 AM

the doghouse is very real, damn near every blogger on this website have written about it at one point.

**Dirt1** · 12-21-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Everyone grab something & hold on tight:

I agree 100% with Slammin' Spammy Bot.

Re "doghouse," I stand also with Inigo Montoya: You killed my father, prepare to die--

(-um, sorry, wrong quote. This one: ) You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Inconceivable!

**Carey** · 12-21-2012, 11:53 AM

Here's my take on it...Harbs wants gym rats out there, guys that come early, stay late, etc. Mckinnie's rep has always been the opposite. I dont know where Mckinnie is conditioning wise currently so i cant speak to that. If he's still out of shape then you dont bother but if he is in shape and does his job from a preparation standpoint you play him because he's a better LT then Oher. Sure you want 53 choir boys that work extremely hard but that never happens, you have to put the best guys on the field provided they do their job. Now i dont think Mckinnie is anymore then a solid stop gap LT but it would allow us to get our best 5 lineman on the field. This is all provided he's practicing like a starting NFL lineman, unfortunately we dont know that but as a fan im hopeful he is because im tired of Oher looking like a swinging gate at LT lol

**Shas** · 12-21-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

We know Oher is not a natural LT and we know there's a doghouse.

I would say that Oher is more of a natural left tackle than right tackle -- Osemele is more of the brutish kind of run blocker you typically see on the right. Oher is not. It's just that Oher is playing his natural position in a pretty average way right now.

My read on the JO quote supports this entirely. His "doghouse" comments don't relate to Oher, except to say that a multiple Pro Bowl LT in McKinnie can't beat out a guy who is not excelling ahead of him. We all know McKinnie has the ability to beat out Oher, but the suggestion made by J.O. is one hopefully we all agree with: McKinnie can't get on the field --- he is in the dog house -- because he hasn't put in enough effort to coaches to show he can execute on the field.

There is no dog house for players who have personalities that the coaches don't like. There are dog houses for players who aren't performing, even if they've performed in past years.

**Shas** · 12-21-2012, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

the doghouse is very real, damn near every blogger on this website have written about it at one point.

True, but half the readers don't understand what it refers to.

**Dirt1** · 12-21-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

I would say that Oher is more of a natural left tackle than right tackle -- Osemele is more of the brutish kind of run blocker you typically see on the right. Oher is not. It's just that Oher is playing his natural position in a pretty average way right now.

My read on the JO quote supports this entirely. His "doghouse" comments don't relate to Oher, except to say that a multiple Pro Bowl LT in McKinnie can't beat out a guy who is not excelling ahead of him. We all know McKinnie has the ability to beat out Oher, but the suggestion made by J.O. is one hopefully we all agree with: McKinnie can't get on the field --- he is in the dog house -- because he hasn't put in enough effort to coaches to show he can execute on the field.

There is no dog house for players who have personalities that the coaches don't like. There are dog houses for players who aren't performing, even if they've performed in past years.

So, what happens if the Ravens lose this week, and Oher gives up a couple of sacks and looks bad in the process. Say the FO then tells Harbaugh to play McKinnie next week against Cincy, and he plays well. Does the narrative that you stated above still hold, or was all of that just more coach speak from Harbaugh?

**Carey** · 12-21-2012, 12:05 PM

I'd also like to say that if Oher's arms were longer i think he'd be fine on the left side. Alot of guys are able to use that to negate other shortcomings and do a solid job in pass pro but Oher doesnt have that advantage.

**Tucker: M&T Sec 527** · 12-21-2012, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

Here's my take on it...Harbs wants gym rats out there, guys that come early, stay late, etc. Mckinnie's rep has always been the opposite. ... If he's still out of shape then you dont bother but if he is in shape and does his job from a preparation standpoint you play him because he's a better LT then Oher. Sure you want 53 choir boys that work extremely hard but that never happens, you have to put the best guys on the field ... This is all provided he's practicing like a starting NFL lineman,

You can substitute the name "Gaither" for "McKinnie" and watch the patterns repeat.

**Shas** · 12-21-2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

So, what happens if the Ravens lose this week, and Oher gives up a couple of sacks and looks bad in the process. Say the FO then tells Harbaugh to play McKinnie next week against Cincy, and he plays well. Does the narrative that you stated above still hold, or was all of that just more coach speak from Harbaugh?

Absolutely, it holds.

First of all, the FO is not going to tell Harbaugh who to play.

But if Harbaugh sits Oher it will be because Oher's falling star intersected with McKinnie's reduced capacity to be a solid contributor.

The way I see it is that McKinnie's desire/effort, and therefore production, declined a long time ago, back when the Vikings jettisoned him. The Ravens picked him up when they were somewhat desperate to fill a need that the entire Gaither situation created. Once he got here, he proved to be a greatly reduced talent who could work as a stop gap, but not much more.

Oher, on the other hand, was drafted as a long term solution -- they would like him to work out at LT and sign him long term, and let the McKinnie insurance policy expire. But Mike has played pretty mediocre football, albeit with enough effort and natural size and ability for the staff to think he could improve.

If he continues to falter, and they end up deciding he's not getting the job done, or can't get the job done, then it most certainly doesn't prove they were wrong about McKinnie. It proves they have two crappy left tackles and are back to square one.