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Thread: Joe 'Manned Up'

  1. #61
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'



    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I actually think Flacco is slightly better than Matt Ryan. I have them in both the same tier of QB's (second tier).
    Well Mattie is currently on a 6 year 66 million dollar deal that is universally expected to be turned into a 100 million dollar plus deal. Why would that be a good move for Atlanta but a bad one for us? Or do you think Atlanta should jettison Ryan next season and trade for Matt Flynn?
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  2. #62
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    So when you play a bad defense, it's just as hard to play a good defense for a QB?

    That must explain why statistically QB's don't do well against the top defenses in the league, and why defensive rankings even exists....
    I like your stuff leach ....

    .... which is why I am having a hard time understanding this WAY over the top logic when it comes to Flacco.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #63
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    I thought the thread had nothing to do with the way he played...
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  4. #64
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    They are ranked 13th in total defense believe it or not. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm
    Here, I'm going to move some goal posts...

    Without looking at that link...

    Remove their redzone defensive stats and where do they rank?
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  5. #65
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    I'm not sure why you think any of the other examples you cite matter, though again, as I said, I was confused by your original statement, and am more confused now.
    You claimed that Dilfer, over his career, outplayed Marino. You cite Dilfer's ring as proof. I listed other players and a coach who earned SuperBowl rings and asked if they have also outplayed a list of statistically much better counterparts who have not yet earned a ring.

    So, I reiterate. Has Qadry Ishmail outplayed Boldin? Or are we only to judge QBs on team success?
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  6. #66
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Well Mattie is currently on a 6 year 66 million dollar deal that is universally expected to be turned into a 100 million dollar plus deal. Why would that be a good move for Atlanta but a bad one for us? Or do you think Atlanta should jettison Ryan next season and trade for Matt Flynn?
    His weapons have made him look way better than what he really is, which is why he's going to get over paid. Is he worth 100 million dollars? No, I don't think so, do Atlanta have any choice? No way. Do we have any choice with Flacco? Nope, especially if he gets us to the SB. Flacco has benefitted from a great defense (apart from this year) Ryan has benefited from a fucking awesome receiving core.




  7. #67
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Here, I'm going to move some goal posts...

    Without looking at that link...

    Remove their redzone defensive stats and where do they rank?
    Because red zone defense and turnover ratio is totally not important.




  8. #68

    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    I like Joe.

    I like pointing out the truth.

    I don't like ignorance.

    You can't win a Super Bowl in this league without the QB. Matt Flynn and Alex Smith are not that QB.

    Trust that Ozzie understands that we have franchise QB on this team and that he will get him under a fair deal. Fair will be around 100 Million if the deal is 7 or so years. It's the going rate for QB's and a few bad stat lines won't drop Flacco's pay into Kevin Kolb territory.




  9. #69

    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    You claimed that Dilfer, over his career, outplayed Marino. You cite Dilfer's ring as proof. I listed other players and a coach who earned SuperBowl rings and asked if they have also outplayed a list of statistically much better counterparts who have not yet earned a ring.

    So, I reiterate. Has Qadry Ishmail outplayed Boldin? Or are we only to judge QBs on team success?
    I did no such thing. That's what you decided to read. What I said was "He did when it mattered," meaning the only game that really mattered out of Dilfer's ENTIRE career (as far as I'm concerned, SB 35), Dilfer was good enough to win it. By a bunch.

    Marino? SB-whatever-he-lost? Not so much.

    Your examples? Not relevant in context of what I meant.

    Edit: with the best defense of all time on the other side of the ball, anyway... Would he have even had that opportunity otherwise?




  10. #70
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    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    His weapons have made him look way better than what he really is, which is why he's going to get over paid. Is he worth 100 million dollars? No, I don't think so, do Atlanta have any choice? No way. Do we have any choice with Flacco? Nope, especially if he gets us to the SB. Flacco has benefitted from a great defense (apart from this year) Ryan has benefited from a fucking awesome receiving core.
    In other words, you have a problem with what the market is currently setting as the bar to keep a franchise QB? Because this idea of what a player is "worth" is meaningless. A player is worth what he commands on the open market. The best kicker in the universe will only make about as much per year as the second best offensive lineman on your team. An average CB is worth more than an above average running back.

    And a franchise QB is worth 100 million dollars give or take. That's just the way it is.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  11. #71

    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    His weapons have made him look way better than what he really is, which is why he's going to get over paid. Is he worth 100 million dollars? No, I don't think so, do Atlanta have any choice? No way. Do we have any choice with Flacco? Nope, especially if he gets us to the SB. Flacco has benefitted from a great defense (apart from this year) Ryan has benefited from a fucking awesome receiving core.
    Ben R. - 8 yr, 102 million signed in 08
    Eli Manning - 7 yr, 106 million signed in 09
    Phillip Rivers - 7 yr, 98 million signed in 09

    Joe and Matt have had a very similar career to each of these QB's up to the point of them signing these contracts. These were all signed 3-4 years ago. They are not being overpaid, they will be getting what the market dictates.




  12. #72

    Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I think I am going to need a slide rule if I am going to keep up the monumental movement of the proverbial goal posts in this thread and this takes the cake ....

    So what you're really saying (but now knowing it) that this is a matter of opinion and perspective. I see that now. But lets not then twist and mince words to fit YOUR opinion in this incredibly twisted narrative.

    Every football person on the planet, who are far more versed in everything football, would look at that game and say Joe out played Brady. And after that game, his praise as such was universal. You do understand it's a generalized term, right?

    It's only the vocal few here, under Herculean efforts, are so desperate to cling to their incredibly narrow narrative that they're resorting to misrepresenting history in a very feeble attempt to make a point.

    .... and it should be noted I think Joe is average at best.
    What is the rubric under which one can say that one QB outplayed his opposing QB, and yet his team still lost the game?

    Is it if you finish with a better QB rating than your opponent? Is it if you get more TDs than your opponent? Is it if you throw fewer interceptions?

    I don't understand the concept, and I don't understand why it matters either, in context of the overall result.




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