Black Monday

**RavenScallywag** · 12-27-2012, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

Lol @ people defending Pees just because of injuries. Sure I'd give him a pass if we slid a few spots but we slid 2 dozen. Sorry injuries don't account for all that.

In VERY recent years another DC had Reed out for half a year, Ray out for a half dozen games(well 4 but he still wasnt at full speed the next 2) an age'd JJ and another age'd guy in Redding. Mix in Ellerbe not playing up to the level he has this year and is capable of, a couple of no name or rookie CB's and well you get the point. Sorry Pees got handed a top 10 defense at WORST with a ton of young talent to mold with aid from Ray and Ed and failed miserably. Early in the season the only guy out was Suggs.

Sorry again, no pass from me. But I will agree the front office will prob retain him unfortunatly.

That same coordinator had the DPOY for the ENTIRE year, along with a very experienced OLB on the other side to provide a strong pass rush.

Our pass rush for the first half of the year was a rookie and a guy who'd never started before.

Our CBs last year were a Pro Bowl snub and a suprising star UDFA vet. This year, we lost our Pro Bowl snub after a few games, replaced by a 1st round question mark, who ALSO got injured shortly after.

The DL last year might've had an "aging" Redding...but Redding was clearly better than Art Jones/Pernell McPhee. Jones has only heated up in the 2nd half of the year, along with Kruger.

You can mention Ellerbe, but he's also missed a good chunk of time with injuries.

**MarkS** · 12-27-2012, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Defending Pees in the face of the worst defensive performance in Ravens history? No thanks ... he does not deserve a 2nd chance.

Sorry, but no. We're on pace to give up 342 pts this year. Arguably our "worst" performance ever (at least, not counting our inagural season, when we had no discerable defensive talent) came in 2007, when we gave up a whopping 384 points.

Remind me again, who was our DC that year?

You really can't fairly judge a DC on one single, injury-plagued season.

**Dont Know** · 12-28-2012, 01:02 AM

I was on the replace Pees bandwagon, but the D seems to be getting better lately despite all the injuries.

I would give him another season to see what he can do when not facing an injury-plagued season.

**lobachevsky** · 12-28-2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Have you seen some of the starting players on that defense this year? A ton of undrafted players or ''special team aces''.

IMO a major (if not the main) reason for the precipitous drop-off in defensive performance is that the bottom half of the roster was chosen mainly for special teams performance rather than ability to step in for starters on the O or the D. That's not unreasonable if the team stays mostly injury-free, because a backup's main ability to affect the outcome of a game is via ST play. But when the injuries pile up, the drop off in performance can be drastic.

**Mista T** · 12-28-2012, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Have you seen some of the starting players on that defense this year? A ton of undrafted players or ''special team aces''.

Excuses.

**TerpFlacco** · 12-28-2012, 03:24 AM

I think I remember hearing or reading somewhere that the Ravens offense has the most three-and-outs in the league. If people just use yards as their gauge for defense than that surely has something to do with it if the defense has to keep going on the field. They're definitely near the top of the league if they do not have the most.

**GOTA** · 12-28-2012, 04:41 AM

Both Del Rio and Nolan already have DC jobs. Neither is getting fired. Neither is going to leave for a lateral move.

**leachisabeast** · 12-28-2012, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Excuses.

Yeah, Pees had Dumerville and Von Miller as his edge rushers when he walked in to this defense.

Actually he had Paul Kruger and Courtney Upshaw.

That's what Del Rio inherited when he took over the DC job over in Denver. Not to mention he has a future HOFer (Champ Baily) at CB, and two other really solid corners, plus benefitting from an offense lead by Peyton Manning who can be the defenses best friend.

Chuck Pagano had A DPOY as his edge rusher, an experienced Vet on the other side, and possibly the best edge setter in football. Haloti Ngata healthy, Cory Redding a decent DE, and then pretty much what Pees has as his starting front 7 as good depth and rotational players.

**wickedsolo** · 12-28-2012, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Both Del Rio and Nolan already have DC jobs. Neither is getting fired. Neither is going to leave for a lateral move.

And even if they were offered lateral move jobs, their current teams could block them.

I'm not crazy about Dean Pees, but you do have to wonder about the injuries being a MAJOR reason for the defensive issues this season. Still, the red zone defense is damn good. My one big BIG gripe about Dean Pees is not using press-man techniques at corner. I really feel that guys like Cary and Jimmy work best when they are in the face at the line of scrimmage. I think that Cary and everyone lining up something like 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage is a really stupid idea.

Say what you want, but Chuck P knew how to put the defensive guys in position to succeed and he got a lot out of these guys. Cody and McClain looked like legitimate starters under Chuck P. It is very strange that those guys went from being starters to getting bowled over by every other offensive lineman.

**leachisabeast** · 12-28-2012, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

And even if they were offered lateral move jobs, their current teams could block them.

I'm not crazy about Dean Pees, but you do have to wonder about the injuries being a MAJOR reason for the defensive issues this season. Still, the red zone defense is damn good. My one big BIG gripe about Dean Pees is not using press-man techniques at corner. I really feel that guys like Cary and Jimmy work best when they are in the face at the line of scrimmage. I think that Cary and everyone lining up something like 8-10 yards off the line of scrimmage is a really stupid idea.

This is pretty much how I feel about Pees too. I'm not a fan of him, however, the criticism of him is really unwarranted, look at the players he's had to deal with.

**Captain Offense** · 12-28-2012, 06:23 AM

I am not sure how anybody can assess Pees' performance. He has tried to institute a defensive scheme with different pieces each week, which means he has to switch it up (and players need to re-learn) as more bodies go down. You cannot stay with the same plan when different skill sets are plugged in and the players need to know their job with each revision. BA said that they had three healthy ILB that they had to keep shuffling with different sets in the Broncos' game; none of which were top-tier players IMHO. I think that whoever figured that Kruger was a three-down player to replace JJ may have missed the boat, but how can we really tell when Suggs was out of the picture for so long. Overall, the defense has gotten better (all things considered) and I think a big part of the problem stems from the lack of third down conversions by the offense that keeps the defense on the field so much.
Having said all of that, if they move on, then so be it. I think they give him another year to try to work things out; especially with the probable changes in the roster.

**Coastergenius** · 12-28-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by esmd

I think you guys are being unfair to Pees. The defense has dealt with a lot this year starting with FA defections and diminished performance from age/injury. Pees has had a short hand all year long.

We lost two role players and replaced them through the draft. You can't blame injuries because early in the season before Webb, Lewis, and the other guys got injuries, teams were still running for 150+ yards per game against us, and guys couldn't tackle to save their lives. Those are the kind of things that you blame the DC for. Do you think that you would see a Pagano, Marvin Lewis, or Rex Ryan coached Raven's defense give up 5-10 yards after contact regularly?

**Paintballguy** · 12-28-2012, 01:10 PM

I'd love to get mike Nolan if he's available.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**GOTA** · 12-28-2012, 01:45 PM

So who are the guys who will be available? It sounds like the coaching staffs from the following teams could be gone.

Browns
Bills
Chargers
Raiders
Titans
Cardinals
Jaguars

There is also a power struggle going on with the Jets that makes it 50/50 that Rex and his group stay and Payton does not have a contract with the Saints and so there could be a new group there.

Any interest in any of the defensive coaches from those teams?

Ray Horton of the Cardinals is an innovative DC and knows how to create pressure.

Mike Pettine of the Jets came from the Ravens and is a real expert in the system that Rex runs. Pettine actually turned down an extension a week ago so he is probably gone even if Rex stays.

If Dave Wannstedt is let go by the Bills and Norv Turner is let go by the Chargers the Ravens can reunite one of the greatest coaching groups in recent years. It would be like 1991 all over again.

**TheJoker** · 12-28-2012, 01:59 PM

I think it is hard to evaluate Pees this season. YES the defense has sucked this year, but they have had a TON of injuries. It could be a lot of things. The back-ups we brought in just aren't that good, the injured players are that GOOD, the players aren't fitting into his system.

I mean yes I wouldn't mind another coach IF that said coach was better. But like some of you have said. Who really will be out there?

I would say give Pees another shot next year and bring in some better talent via starters and back-ups. Then if we suck again you can go another route.

**GOTA** · 12-28-2012, 02:22 PM

Knowing Harbaugh I can't seem him dumping Pees after just 1 season. That's just not his style. Now if the defense is poor again next year then Pees is gone. After 1 year though he's going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

**GirlsKickButt** · 12-28-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

So who are the guys who will be available? It sounds like the coaching staffs from the following teams could be gone.

Browns
Bills
Chargers
Raiders
Titans
Cardinals
Jaguars

There is also a power struggle going on with the Jets that makes it 50/50 that Rex and his group stay and Payton does not have a contract with the Saints and so there could be a new group there.

Any interest in any of the defensive coaches from those teams?

Ray Horton of the Cardinals is an innovative DC and knows how to create pressure.

Mike Pettine of the Jets came from the Ravens and is a real expert in the system that Rex runs. Pettine actually turned down an extension a week ago so he is probably gone even if Rex stays.

If Dave Wannstedt is let go by the Bills and Norv Turner is let go by the Chargers the Ravens can reunite one of the greatest coaching groups in recent years. It would be like 1991 all over again.

John Pagnano is the DC for the Chargers. I wonder if he's as good as his brother?

**wickedsolo** · 12-28-2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by GirlsKickButt

John Pagnano is the DC for the Chargers. I wonder if he's as good as his brother?

Don't believe so...

**wickedsolo** · 12-28-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

So who are the guys who will be available? It sounds like the coaching staffs from the following teams could be gone.

Browns
Bills
Chargers
Raiders
Titans
Cardinals
Jaguars

There is also a power struggle going on with the Jets that makes it 50/50 that Rex and his group stay and Payton does not have a contract with the Saints and so there could be a new group there.

Any interest in any of the defensive coaches from those teams?

Ray Horton of the Cardinals is an innovative DC and knows how to create pressure.

Mike Pettine of the Jets came from the Ravens and is a real expert in the system that Rex runs. Pettine actually turned down an extension a week ago so he is probably gone even if Rex stays.

If Dave Wannstedt is let go by the Bills and Norv Turner is let go by the Chargers the Ravens can reunite one of the greatest coaching groups in recent years. It would be like 1991 all over again.

GOTA -

I love Ray Horton. However, I thought I read somewhere that he was going to be a candidate to replace Whisenhut as the HC in Arizona. They'd be fools to kick Horton to the curb. That defense is pretty damn good and going in the right direction.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-28-2012, 02:55 PM

Agreed, Horton would be awesome to bring in and see the exotic blitz return. But he is likely a HC candidate next year.

From reports that I've read, Pettine wants to return to the Jets so I'm not sure what's up with the contract.

I have to tell you I feel sorry for Rex having to play with such a limited talent group on offense. it's like they have no threat of the pass so they go into every game trying to win on the running game, gimmick plays and defense... They need to get him some talent.