Black Monday

**Dade** · 01-03-2013, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Big news for fans of the Saints offense...their OC, Pete Carmicheal had his contract expire and is free to sign with whoever

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Interesting...

**BigPlayReceiver** · 01-03-2013, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Per Shefter ...

From @mortreport and me: Chiefs on verge of a deal with Andy Reid. One source said “the major issues have been discussed and agreed upon.”

Hmmm...Bowe would be the big (non-major pain-in-the-ass) receiver that Reid never had. Odds of them resigning him have shifted, I'd say.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 01-03-2013, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Big news for fans of the Saints offense...their OC, Pete Carmicheal had his contract expire and is free to sign with whoever

Aw shucks now

**bmorecareful** · 01-03-2013, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Hmmm...Bowe would be the big (non-major pain-in-the-ass) receiver that Reid never had. Odds of them resigning him have shifted, I'd say.

I don't like Bowe a whole lot, but he's definitely a very good fit in Reid's WCO.

If I'm Andy Reid taking over the Chiefs... he could easily totally turn around their offense this offseason. They've got plenty of cap space so I'd resign Dwayne Bowe and Branden Albert both. Take Geno Smith with your 1st pick (hopefully you can move down a bit and get him without using the 1st overall pick), draft Stedman Bailey to keep playing with Geno...

Andy Reid could do a lot with Geno Smith, Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Stedman Bailey, and Tony Moeaki. All of those guys are REALLY good fits for his offense and with his track record of getting the most out of quarterbacks... they could pull a real turnaround next year.

**HoustonRaven** · 01-04-2013, 09:07 AM

Scott Pioli is out in KC ....

**wickedsolo** · 01-04-2013, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Scott Pioli is out in KC ....

Which could likely mean that Andy Reid is in.

**HoustonRaven** · 01-04-2013, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Which could likely mean that Andy Reid is in.

I think it's a mortal lock that Reid is in now.

This will be very telling for Reid and his career. He's going to have total control now.

**wickedsolo** · 01-04-2013, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I think it's a mortal lock that Reid is in now.

This will be very telling for Reid and his career. He's going to have total control now.

My bet is he already has Pat Shurmur on the books as his OC.

Cue the "Vick to the Chiefs" rumors, haha.

**Paintballguy** · 01-04-2013, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I think it's a mortal lock that Reid is in now.

This will be very telling for Reid and his career. He's going to have total control now.

Reid cancelled his interview with Arizona and extended his stay in KC. He's definitely signing with KC. THey are probably just hammering out the contract.

**GOTA** · 01-04-2013, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Reid cancelled his interview with Arizona and extended his stay in KC. He's definitely signing with KC. THey are probably just hammering out the contract.

The Chiefs officially fired Pioli too which means this is definitely going down.

**pslholder96** · 01-04-2013, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Reid cancelled his interview with Arizona and extended his stay in KC. He's definitely signing with KC. THey are probably just hammering out the contract.

So now Reid gets total control. I don't know if that's a good thing.

**GOTA** · 01-04-2013, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

So now Reid gets total control. I don't know if that's a good thing.

Glad I'm not a Chiefs fan.

**bmorecareful** · 01-04-2013, 09:44 AM

KC should fall into place very quickly.

Reid as HC, Mornhinwheg or Shurmur as OC, Castillo as OL coach, probably Brad Childress as QB coach. If Lovie doesn't get a HC gig he could easily step in as DC, if Ron Rivera gets booted from Carolina he's also a DC candidate. If Reid has his way there's your coaching staff, albeit an expensive one.

Say what you will about those guys but all of them are proven assistants. With that coaching staff and a good draft class that includes at least a decent rookie QB, Kansas City could easily challenge Denver for the division next year, or a wild card spot at a minimum.

**pslholder96** · 01-04-2013, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Glad I'm not a Chiefs fan.

My thoughts exactly..time to enter in a new era I guess but I hope for the sake of the fanbase they don't botch the #1 pick.

**bmorecareful** · 01-04-2013, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Glad I'm not a Chiefs fan.

Originally Posted by pslholder96

My thoughts exactly..time to enter in a new era I guess but I hope for the sake of the fanbase they don't botch the #1 pick.

The Chiefs have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL outside of the QB position. They have a near championship-caliber defense, good OL, excellent RB, and good cap space to further improve the team.

They're a couple players away from serious playoff contention. If Geno Smith pans out at all, they re-sign Branden Albert, and add a little help in the draft at WR, CB, and DL, they will be fine. Their problem has been that since 2010 they haven't even gotten mediocre play out of their QBs, all they need is a signal caller who doesn't make a ton of mistakes and gets the ball to his playmakers.

**GOTA** · 01-04-2013, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

The Chiefs have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL outside of the QB position. They have a near championship-caliber defense, good OL, excellent RB, and good cap space to further improve the team.

They're a couple players away from serious playoff contention. If Geno Smith pans out at all, they re-sign Branden Albert, and add a little help in the draft at WR, CB, and DL, they will be fine. Their problem has been that since 2010 they haven't even gotten mediocre play out of their QBs, all they need is a signal caller who doesn't make a ton of mistakes and gets the ball to his playmakers.

The Chiefs have no depth. They have some exciting starters but nothing behind them. Now they have to worry about paying some of those starters too who are going into their 2nd contracts. I doubt they franchise Bowe again and it's going to take a lot of selling to get him to resign. Charles and Flowers are the only key players they really have under contract for any length of time. I also love their starting roster but I'm not sure how they're going to be able to keep it together.

**wickedsolo** · 01-04-2013, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

The Chiefs have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL outside of the QB position. They have a near championship-caliber defense, good OL, excellent RB, and good cap space to further improve the team.

They're a couple players away from serious playoff contention. If Geno Smith pans out at all, they re-sign Branden Albert, and add a little help in the draft at WR, CB, and DL, they will be fine. Their problem has been that since 2010 they haven't even gotten mediocre play out of their QBs, all they need is a signal caller who doesn't make a ton of mistakes and gets the ball to his playmakers.

They have some pretty glaring holes at receiver though. Especially if Dwayne Bowe does leave, which seems likely. They're also losing Glenn Dorsey, possibly Brandon Albert, and they really should consider dropping Tyson Jackson.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a run at Greg Jennings or maybe Mike Wallace. I also don't know if they'll target Geno Smith or not.

If I were Andy Reid, I'd sign Mike Vick (since he already knows the offense) and try to trade down. If I HAD to pick #1 overall...I'd probably go for Star Lotulelei or Luke Joeckel. I would also try and retain Brandon Albert and kick him inside to guard, draft Joeckel, and then in the 2nd/3rd rounds look at guys like Aaron Murray or Tajh Boyd. Then look at receivers like Ryan Swope, etc.

**bmorecareful** · 01-04-2013, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

They have some pretty glaring holes at receiver though. Especially if Dwayne Bowe does leave, which seems likely. They're also losing Glenn Dorsey, possibly Brandon Albert, and they really should consider dropping Tyson Jackson.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a run at Greg Jennings or maybe Mike Wallace. I also don't know if they'll target Geno Smith or not.

If I were Andy Reid, I'd sign Mike Vick (since he already knows the offense) and try to trade down. If I HAD to pick #1 overall...I'd probably go for Star Lotulelei or Luke Joeckel. I would also try and retain Brandon Albert and kick him inside to guard, draft Joeckel, and then in the 2nd/3rd rounds look at guys like Aaron Murray or Tajh Boyd. Then look at receivers like Ryan Swope, etc.

Bowe might stay now that a new coaching staff and GM will be coming on board. He got screwed by the previous regime and had major beef with Todd Haley and Pioli but they're out of the picture now. Even so, Bowe isn't all that great. I agree that if I were going to sign a receiver I'd prefer other guys to Bowe. Greg Jennings IMO is the best fit. He's coming off a down year so you're buying cheap, plus he's a great fit for Andy Reid's offense.

Andy Reid made the Eagles a consistent playoff contender despite never having an elite QB or elite WRs. McNabb and Vick both put up great numbers in his system despite not being elite talents. AJ Feeley and Kevin Kolb looked pretty good in his system but turned out to be complete duds outside of it. All the Chiefs will need with Reid's system is competent QB play, he has Jamaal Charles to play the Brian Westbrook role. If the Chiefs can secure a decent QB and #1 WR in FA like Bowe or Jennings Reid will immediately have more skill position talent than he ever had in Philly. Even if they don't do that they can make do with Steve Breaston (who the current coaching staff hates for some reason but he's not a bad #2 receiver at all), Dexter McCluster in the slot, and a talented draftee that fits the WCO like Da'Rick Rogers, Stedman Bailey, Ryan Swope, etc.

In terms of getting said QB IMO the ideal option is to find a way to get Geno Smith without taking him #1 overall, i.e. trade down with somebody who really covets Lotulelei, Joeckel, Jarvis Jones, etc. hopefully to around the 10 spot or so, that should get you a 2nd rounder. Use that 2nd rounder on a DL prospect like Shariff Floyd, Kawann Short, etc. to replace Dorsey and/or Jackson (both of whom are extremely overrated and easily replaceable IMO). Don't forget they also have Dontari Poe on the roster and he can play NT and DE.

I think Geno Smith is the best fit for Reid's WCO by a pretty big margin, but he's not a top-5 overall type of QB prospect. If they don't go with Smith then like you said I'd maybe take Aaron Murray, Tajh Boyd, or Tyler Wilson.

EDIT: I just realized this and I thought I'd throw it in cuz it's funny. I totally forgot the Chiefs even had Jonathan Baldwin on their roster. Kind of crazy because I really wanted the Ravens to draft him in 2011 and I liked him a lot as a prospect. He has been a huge disappointment as a 1st round receiver and who knows what his future holds? But again maybe Andy Reid can get something out of him...

**wickedsolo** · 01-04-2013, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Bowe might stay now that a new coaching staff and GM will be coming on board. He got screwed by the previous regime and had major beef with Todd Haley and Pioli but they're out of the picture now. Even so, Bowe isn't all that great. I agree that if I were going to sign a receiver I'd prefer other guys to Bowe. Greg Jennings IMO is the best fit. He's coming off a down year so you're buying cheap, plus he's a great fit for Andy Reid's offense.

Andy Reid made the Eagles a consistent playoff contender despite never having an elite QB or elite WRs. McNabb and Vick both put up great numbers in his system despite not being elite talents. AJ Feeley and Kevin Kolb looked pretty good in his system but turned out to be complete duds outside of it. All the Chiefs will need with Reid's system is competent QB play, he has Jamaal Charles to play the Brian Westbrook role. If the Chiefs can secure a decent QB and #1 WR in FA like Bowe or Jennings Reid will immediately have more skill position talent than he ever had in Philly. Even if they don't do that they can make do with Steve Breaston (who the current coaching staff hates for some reason but he's not a bad #2 receiver at all), Dexter McCluster in the slot, and a talented draftee that fits the WCO like Da'Rick Rogers, Stedman Bailey, Ryan Swope, etc.

In terms of getting said QB IMO the ideal option is to find a way to get Geno Smith without taking him #1 overall, i.e. trade down with somebody who really covets Lotulelei, Joeckel, Jarvis Jones, etc. hopefully to around the 10 spot or so, that should get you a 2nd rounder. Use that 2nd rounder on a DL prospect like Shariff Floyd, Kawann Short, etc. to replace Dorsey and/or Jackson (both of whom are extremely overrated and easily replaceable IMO). Don't forget they also have Dontari Poe on the roster and he can play NT and DE.

I think Geno Smith is the best fit for Reid's WCO by a pretty big margin, but he's not a top-5 overall type of QB prospect. If they don't go with Smith then like you said I'd maybe take Aaron Murray, Tajh Boyd, or Tyler Wilson.

EDIT: I just realized this and I thought I'd throw it in cuz it's funny. I totally forgot the Chiefs even had Jonathan Baldwin on their roster. Kind of crazy because I really wanted the Ravens to draft him in 2011 and I liked him a lot as a prospect. He has been a huge disappointment as a 1st round receiver and who knows what his future holds? But again maybe Andy Reid can get something out of him...

I liked Baldwin a lot too. That guy was pretty damn good at Pitt. I think a lot of Baldwin's issues have been playing in an offense that barely features a passing game. The guy reportedly has some maturity issues, so that combined with an anemic passing game is a recipe that will make anyone not put forth 100%. In Reid's offense, Baldwin could be pretty good. Reid has done more with a lot less (Jason Avant, for example).

**bmorecareful** · 01-04-2013, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I liked Baldwin a lot too. That guy was pretty damn good at Pitt. I think a lot of Baldwin's issues have been playing in an offense that barely features a passing game. The guy reportedly has some maturity issues, so that combined with an anemic passing game is a recipe that will make anyone not put forth 100%. In Reid's offense, Baldwin could be pretty good. Reid has done more with a lot less (Jason Avant, for example).

You might be right. Some WRs really just need to get a chance to get the damn ball in their hands and then the light starts to come on. I understand if the guy's not running good routes and getting open you don't want to throw to him, but it's just like most QBs. Ask them to go in cold and make 5 tough throws in a row and they'll probably miss 4 out of 5. You have to get them in rhythm with a few easy completions and then they can start taking over.

If I had a guy like Baldwin who was struggling some, I'd just start throwing him 3 or 4 guaranteed completions a game. Screens, drags, short hitches, etc... get the ball in his hands and see if he can make a play. If he can't make a play, be patient. After he's made a few catches and gotten a few tastes of the defense, then you start trying to work him in on the harder stuff downfield.

Hey, wait... that sounds familiar. Don't we have a deep threat WR who struggles with the mental aspects of the game at times? The Ravens could really stand to learn this lesson with Torrey Smith, and under Caldwell they might be getting there. You can't just expect him to catch 3 deep balls a game and nothing else. Hit him with a screen or a slant a couple times to get him going and THEN try the deep stuff.