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  1. #25
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room



    Yea i would like to see them extend either Q or Jones. Letting them both walk would put a serious dent in our wr corps. Id actually be cool with extending both of them. Its the best way to get those cap hits down.




  2. #26

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Boldin and Jones both have one year left on their deals. How is one a prime candidate and the other not? I'm not sure Quan at $6 million (since his 1.5 million dead money is already a sunk cost) is any worse of a value than Jacoby at $4 million (what we'd have to pay him assuming we pick up his $1 million roster bonus). Besides, both players are entering the final year of their deals, so I'm not sure how you can restructure those anyways, unless you somehow did an extension of a year and diverted some of the 2013 salary towards 2014. I think you are just worsening your situation by doing that, though.

    Also, I don't believe Pollard was restructured. I believe he was just given an extension. There is a big difference between the two. Pollard's original contract was a 2 year deal, so there would be no way to restructure before the final year of the contract (much like with Jacoby and Quan). When he signed with the Ravens it wasn't reworking the original contract, but rather adding an extension.



    How to handle Boldin seems to be a polarizing topic here. I think the Raven's best option is this (and this is far from my first time saying this). Bring Anquan in and explain to him that your intention is to cut him and, if possible, work out a cheaper extension with him when cut. Offer him $7.6 million over 2 years. Give him a $2 million signing bonus and $2.6 base salary in 2013 and a $3 million base salary in 2014.

    His 2013 Cap figure would be $5.1 million ($2.6 million+ 1 million prorated signing bonus+ 1.5 cap hit from his original signing bonus). Boldin is a valuable, consistent enough player that I think a $5.1 cap allocation makes sense...or at least at lot more than the $7.5 he is scheduled to count against our cap.

    His 2014 Cap Figure would be $4 million ($3 million base salary and $1 million prorated signing bonus). Boldin would be 34 early in the 2014 season, but I don't think this figure makes him too expensive to keep.

    From Boldin's standpoint, it makes sense as well. He gets to stay with a team that knows his talents well. Yes, he won't get his $6 million in salary, but he does get $4.6....$2 million of which he gets to pocket right away by signing his contract. He also has a contract for 2014 at a salary reasonable enough to think he will actually see the money.

    Any thoughts Ravor?

    Who has Ozzie and Biscuits email address....forward this to them! Keep Q!
    Very well-thought out post. I think Boldin's future depends not only on his contract and cap hit, but also on how the team feels about the WR depth chart on the whole. Is Boldin worth, say, a 5.1m cap hit next year? Well, maybe, but everything is relative. Seeing the flashes Doss has shown this year and Torrey Smith's ability to take over games at time, perhaps they go into 2013 willing to bank on those two continuing to grow and evolve as their top 2 WRs.

    Jacoby Jones is the other factor here. He's been fantastic as a returner and made good contributions as the #3 WR. We know he won't be back next year on his current contract, but they could certainly renegotiate and extend. Is Jacoby more valuable to this team as a RS and #3 WR than Boldin as a #1 WR? Particularly considering they have Doss waiting in the wings to take over Boldin's role?

    Of the two, I think I'd prefer to have Jacoby back and draft a mid-round guy to round out the depth chart. Not only does that save money, it pushes our age at WR down substantially and gives Doss a chance, which IMO he's earned with his flashes this year.




  3. #27
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    B-more Ravor will probably be putting out a cap update in the next few months that will highlight some big contracts where restructuring or cutting will help big time.

    As far as restructuring, for the most part I'm not a fan. It's a move that screams more "the window is closing" than building a perennial contender. Some restructures are simple number moving and we tend to do those, but the ones that create immediate cap at the price of future caps is generally not a game we play. Ozzie still has nightmares of 2002, when he was forced to GUT the team because all those FA deals he made in 99, 2000, 2001 came back to bite him.

    That's why in 2010, you saw Heap, McGahee, Gregg, and Mason all get cut. I'm sure we could've restructured their deals, but it would've made these years where Rice and Flacco were up even WORSE.

    Look no further than Pitt, who is 28 mil over the cap BEFORE any deals.
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    FOR REED, BIRK, BOLDIN, RAY, ART, TEVIN, OJ, and BALTIMORE...
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    "We don't make it easy, but that's the way the city of Baltimore is, and that's the way we are. We did this for them back home." - Joe Flacco, Super Bowl 47 MVP


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  4. #28

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Boldin and Jones both have one year left on their deals. How is one a prime candidate and the other not? I'm not sure Quan at $6 million (since his 1.5 million dead money is already a sunk cost) is any worse of a value than Jacoby at $4 million (what we'd have to pay him assuming we pick up his $1 million roster bonus). Besides, both players are entering the final year of their deals, so I'm not sure how you can restructure those anyways, unless you somehow did an extension of a year and diverted some of the 2013 salary towards 2014. I think you are just worsening your situation by doing that, though.
    If you cut Q and extend Jones, you lessen his cap hit without worsening the situation.

    I hope they can keep Q, too. I've been a big fan since before he came to Baltimore, and that despite his playing for the Bidwells. I love how he plays the position.

    That's why I was in such shock and dismay with his un-Q-like play recently before the Giants game. I was ecstatic to see the return of the secondary smasher I'd grown to love.

    The big question is, if you're Ozzie, do you see Q on the team and contributing in 2014. Do you see Jones? Of the two, Jones is probably the safer bet. He's younger, and he doesn't play wide-out like an angry fullback. The one you can't see being a big contributor in 2014 (let alone beyond) is the one you might have to make a cap casualty in 2013.




  5. #29
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    I wish we had gotten Tandon Doss a heavy role on the offense towards the end here. He's probably the hinge on whether you have to bring back Q or not. If Doss is ready to contribute on an every game basis, you can probably let Q walk. But he hasn't quite shown he's ready yet, so you can't tell.
    .
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    FOR REED, BIRK, BOLDIN, RAY, ART, TEVIN, OJ, and BALTIMORE...
    SUPER BOWL 47 CHAMPION RAVENS!!!!!!

    "We don't make it easy, but that's the way the city of Baltimore is, and that's the way we are. We did this for them back home." - Joe Flacco, Super Bowl 47 MVP


    Call me a Special Teams coach again. I dare you! I double dare you, MFer!




  6. #30

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Boldin and Jones both have one year left on their deals. How is one a prime candidate and the other not? I'm not sure Quan at $6 million (since his 1.5 million dead money is already a sunk cost) is any worse of a value than Jacoby at $4 million (what we'd have to pay him assuming we pick up his $1 million roster bonus). Besides, both players are entering the final year of their deals, so I'm not sure how you can restructure those anyways, unless you somehow did an extension of a year and diverted some of the 2013 salary towards 2014. I think you are just worsening your situation by doing that, though.

    Also, I don't believe Pollard was restructured. I believe he was just given an extension. There is a big difference between the two. Pollard's original contract was a 2 year deal, so there would be no way to restructure before the final year of the contract (much like with Jacoby and Quan). When he signed with the Ravens it wasn't reworking the original contract, but rather adding an extension.



    How to handle Boldin seems to be a polarizing topic here. I think the Raven's best option is this (and this is far from my first time saying this). Bring Anquan in and explain to him that your intention is to cut him and, if possible, work out a cheaper extension with him when cut. Offer him $7.6 million over 2 years. Give him a $2 million signing bonus and $2.6 base salary in 2013 and a $3 million base salary in 2014.

    His 2013 Cap figure would be $5.1 million ($2.6 million+ 1 million prorated signing bonus+ 1.5 cap hit from his original signing bonus). Boldin is a valuable, consistent enough player that I think a $5.1 cap allocation makes sense...or at least at lot more than the $7.5 he is scheduled to count against our cap.

    His 2014 Cap Figure would be $4 million ($3 million base salary and $1 million prorated signing bonus). Boldin would be 34 early in the 2014 season, but I don't think this figure makes him too expensive to keep.

    From Boldin's standpoint, it makes sense as well. He gets to stay with a team that knows his talents well. Yes, he won't get his $6 million in salary, but he does get $4.6....$2 million of which he gets to pocket right away by signing his contract. He also has a contract for 2014 at a salary reasonable enough to think he will actually see the money.

    Any thoughts Ravor?

    Who has Ozzie and Biscuits email address....forward this to them! Keep Q!
    I think that the confusion is that people want to extend Jones(which is NOT a simple restructure as you point out) while they don't find it to be a prudent move to give Anquan 3 or 4 more years. Your plan for Q is valid, and I wouldn't put it past the FO to do somethign similar.


    Jones and Leach(te forgotten man in this discussion) BOTH need extensions. Both fit into this team very well and deserve at least 3 or34 more years, which should lower each of their cap numbers. I wouldn't mind simple restructures for Ngata and Suggs, as wel as a paycut for Jameel. Alll of this might make keeping Q around at a lower number feasible.




  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I think that the confusion is that people want to extend Jones(which is NOT a simple restructure as you point out) while they don't find it to be a prudent move to give Anquan 3 or 4 more years. Your plan for Q is valid, and I wouldn't put it past the FO to do somethign similar.


    Jones and Leach(te forgotten man in this discussion) BOTH need extensions. Both fit into this team very well and deserve at least 3 or34 more years, which should lower each of their cap numbers. I wouldn't mind simple restructures for Ngata and Suggs, as wel as a paycut for Jameel. Alll of this might make keeping Q around at a lower number feasible.
    You are right, I said restructure for Jacoby when I meant extension.

    I'd be very OK with a wholesale youth movement. Despite how great they've been, move on from Lewis, Reed, Boldin and Birk. It's going to happen eventually so rip the band aid off rather than holding on too long.

    For better or worse the identity of the team has to be Suggs, Ngata, Rice and *gulp* Flacco.

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk




  8. #32
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Couldn't possibly disagree much more on Ngata. He was playing DPOY level football to start each of the last 2 seasons, and only slowed due to nagging injuries he CHOSE to play through,. I'm all for getting deeper into his deal.

    Vonta Leach is another good option for an extension to lower the cap. Jacoby Jones fits that to a T as well.
    Completely agree. Jacoby and Vonte are two prime examples of guys who we can re-sign longer term and reduce the cap number via bonuses.




  9. #33

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Jones can be an extension candidate, no way you let him go. He is WAY to valuable and should have more 2TD's (officiating); he is a legit #2 man and we have been wanting a decent return man for years now.

    Boldin at 6 Million is cap releif, will likely be a cap cut. He can only get open in zone coverage and not man to man. He can only play in the slot these days in press coverage. His targets to completion ration is pretty bad for the patterns he runs. You can cut him and try to resign him. I think Doss will do BETTER than Boldin given reps, he's faster with better hands and it will be his 3rd year. If you go to the games and watch Boldin he really cant create separation much at all. Extending him makes no sense.

    They need Boldins 6 million, Lewis's 5.4 Million and of course Birks and Bobbie Williams $ to resign Cary Williams and Kruger. Plus, remember the Ravens have a whopping 11 draft picks this draft, so that gives them plenty of options. Given they give Joe a longterm deal (more cap freindly) the Ravens with good health should be better next season than this one.

    I doubt teams will be lining up to sign Boldin or Lewis, but could see some team giving Ed Reed a decent 2 year deal even at his age.




  10. #34

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Jones can be an extension candidate, no way you let him go. He is WAY to valuable and should have more 2TD's (officiating); he is a legit #2 man and we have been wanting a decent return man for years now.

    Boldin at 6 Million is cap releif, will likely be a cap cut. He can only get open in zone coverage and not man to man. He can only play in the slot these days in press coverage. His targets to completion ration is pretty bad for the patterns he runs. You can cut him and try to resign him. I think Doss will do BETTER than Boldin given reps, he's faster with better hands and it will be his 3rd year. If you go to the games and watch Boldin he really cant create separation much at all. Extending him makes no sense.

    They need Boldins 6 million, Lewis's 5.4 Million and of course Birks and Bobbie Williams $ to resign Cary Williams and Kruger. Plus, remember the Ravens have a whopping 11 draft picks this draft, so that gives them plenty of options. Given they give Joe a longterm deal (more cap freindly) the Ravens with good health should be better next season than this one.

    I doubt teams will be lining up to sign Boldin or Lewis, but could see some team giving Ed Reed a decent 2 year deal even at his age.
    I like your optimism, but I don't see Cary Williams back next year. He's played decently for us this year, but he is not worth the $6-8 million/year he will get in free agency. Hometown discount doesn't seem like an option with him either. Right now, assuming Webb is healthy and Jimmy can ever get healthy, we have four CBs under contract next year who are all capable guys. Brown, Graham, and Smith are all good contract values and we still have to see what Asa Jackson can do.

    I think the more likely option is we draft a CB with one of our 11 picks, sign a veteran CB for depth in the $1-2 million range...and run with those two guys in combination with the five I mentioned above.


    I think Kruger and Ellerbe are more realistic re-signing targets.




  11. #35

    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.

    I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.

    Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now

    Omar Brown
    Laquan Williams (IR)
    Adrian Hamilton
    Jameel McClain (IR)
    Dannell Ellerbe
    Josh Bynes
    Bobby Rainey (IR)
    Emmanuel Cook (IR)
    Michael McAdoo (IR)
    Albert McClellan
    Deonte Thompson
    Bryan Hall
    Justin Tucker

    If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.
    Last edited by LukeDaniel; 12-29-2012 at 10:56 AM.




  12. #36
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    Re: The Ravens can restructure salaries to make room

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Also, with respect to the high # of draft picks, particularly in late rounds, I'd really like to see the Ravens trade up big time this year. I think we already have like 35 or 36 of our 53 who are in their first three years in the league. A lot of these are so-so talents and decent depth guys and, given their team control for a few more years, are solid filler type guys for a while. We don't need more rookie fillers. We need impact rookies.

    I'd rather see us package a few of these 11 picks and maybe try to move up to the point where we can either move up in the first or second round or maybe acquire an extra 3rd or extra 4th round picks. I'd rather see us walk away with 4-6 impact players than 3-4 impact players and a bunch of depth guys. We've had such insane success at finding solid depth in the undrafted FA market, that I'd rather us use that route to round out our roster than having a bunch of late-rounders.

    Look at all the UFAs on our roster right now

    Omar Brown
    Laquan Williams (IR)
    Adrian Hamilton
    Jameel McClain (IR)
    Dannell Ellerbe
    Josh Bynes
    Bobby Rainey (IR)
    Emmanuel Cook (IR)
    Michael McAdoo (IR)
    Albert McClellan
    Deonte Thompson
    Bryan Hall
    Justin Tucker

    If you compare their production with our late round draft picks, I think you can argue the undrafted guys have actually contributed more.
    If we can get a third and fourth comp pick, that gives us great manoeuvrability. We can use our original third and fourth to move up in the first, or trade back in the first to second then use them to get a third 2nd round pick and three potential day 1 starters.

    Also have the option of making a real bold move. Our first 2nd 3rd 4th and move way up in the first round. And still have a third and 4th round pick, just really lose a second but you could move up and get a potential legit left tackle, or Hankins for nose, teo for ilb, heck even one of the top pass rushers if Kruger goes.




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