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  1. #49
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!



    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    You mean people don't know that Drew Brees wasn't throwing 40 TD's per year every year of his career?

    I've had this argument on other boards - look up the first 5 years of any "elite" QB...they don't look so elite.

    It seems that after year 5 is when things really start to come together.
    It is a combination of things. Putting all of the pieces together is the biggest component of a QB's success though. Tom Brady, since everyone wants to throw his name around as the threshold for "elite" play, had some outstanding seasons...but he didn't really start putting up gaudy numbers until 2007...guess what two MAJOR components they added in that off-season? Wes Welker and Randy Moss. Both in their prime. The season before, Brady's #1 receiver was Reche Caldwell who had about 60 receptions and around 800 yards.
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  2. #50
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    That is, to put it bluntly, complete bullshit. I haven't seen ANYBODY write or speak as if they're trying to convince themselves how good he is. I have seen more than a few dismissive, football-IQ-challenged folks who babble in buzzwords like "deer in the headlights","Average Joe," and (lately) "inconsistent," and I've seen folks (including myself) challenge them on that.

    He's not elite, whatever that means. I watched one of the acknowledged "elite" QB's in the league toss a perfect pass to Lardarius Webb last year in the AFCCG, and then put one out of reach of one of the league's most consistent receivers in the Super Bowl. While winning the first game doubtless helped to mute any criticism he might have faced for his performance in the AFCCG he, Brady acknowledged "sucked," the only criticism I've heard on the SB play is directed at Welker. It is, after all, his fault he's not the same height as Randy Moss.

    Brady is a great QB. He's made some amazing plays throughout his career, and he's earned a layer of teflon when it comes to criticism. Flacco is a good QB. He's made some great plays in his career, and while it's certainly fair and reasonable to criticize him when warranted, the criticism of the Flacco Bashers isn't fair or reasonable. It's mostly just ignorant.

    He doesn't stretch the field (when he had Mason, Boldin, Houshmanzadeh, and Heap as his four primary receivers). He dumps the ball off too quickly to Rice. He holds the ball too long. He has happy feet. He gets rattled to quick. He has no sense of urgency. He stands immobile in the pocket. He has no emotion. He isn't yelling at his teammates. He's not studying still shots of the game when the camera pans to him on the sideline. He throws too many deep passes. He doesn't check down to Rice enough.

    And on and on and on...
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  3. #51

    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    It's a nice milestone, Eeyore. Just because it's not a Super Bowl ring doesn't mean we should blow past it like it's worthless.

    Are you finally finished crapping all over this significant accomplishment?
    Over time I've come to value SB's less and less.

    Due to the NFL's one and done playoff format, any crazy thing can happen in a game to derail or promote a SB run.

    Did the Patriots really deserve to win last year's AFCG? Or were they just extremely lucky, to have not one play but a second consecutive play fall in their favor. Does Eli really deserve 2 SB's because of two incredibly lucky catches? It is pure luck at times. Unlike in baseball, etc., where the final determination plays out over the course of a series, and a true champion can assert themselves, in the NFL one bad game and you are done.

    In the NFL's playoff format, I just don't think it really proves who is the best all the time. A lot of the time it proves who is the luckiest.




  4. #52
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    In the SB's Brady only had to get into Viniterri's range to win, and we all know that's not as close as last year Raven's kicker had to be. Joe couldn't rely on the kicker and had really needed to throw a TD to win it, ...oh wait, he did....

    I love to goad the local's here, 100% accurate or not; no Viniterri, no SB for the boy Brady.




  5. #53
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Over time I've come to value SB's less and less.

    Due to the NFL's one and done playoff format, any crazy thing can happen in a game to derail or promote a SB run.

    Did the Patriots really deserve to win last year's AFCG? Or were they just extremely lucky, to have not one play but a second consecutive play fall in their favor. Does Eli really deserve 2 SB's because of two incredibly lucky catches? It is pure luck at times. Unlike in baseball, etc., where the final determination plays out over the course of a series, and a true champion can assert themselves, in the NFL one bad game and you are done.

    In the NFL's playoff format, I just don't think it really proves who is the best all the time. A lot of the time it proves who is the luckiest.
    I disagree. IMO, the whole point of the regular season is to get to the post season.
    Step 1A: Win the division and guarantee a playoff spot.
    Step 1B: Win enough games to get into the playoffs.

    Step 2: Win the conference championship, which guarantees a SB appearance.

    Step 3: Win the SB.

    Did the 7-9 Seahawks deserve to get into the playoffs a few seasons ago? It is debatable, but they DID win their division (which was a poor one at that).

    There is no such thing as "deserve" in the NFL outside of contracts. It is either do or don't. The Giants got into the playoffs and ran the table. Who are we (or anyone) to say that they didn't deserve to go to the SB and win?
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


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  6. #54

    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Over time I've come to value SB's less and less.
    Well, thankfully for most of us, the Ravens FO and entire roster places a great deal of value on SBs.

    The HoF matters b/c it's the ultimate individual prize; pretty much by design. Now if Joe somehow gets himself on a HoF path and stays there for 7-10 years then I'll be jumping for joy every step of the way. (Hell, I saw him play live twice at Delaware and I wanted him--and Omar Cuff too--drafted here long before folks knew his name had two c's in it.)

    This "wins" stat is nice, but it's really a footnote...an ESPN type of "record" that really doesn't mean all that much to me. The Joe fans that I know share my opinion that he's capable of winning an SB, so that's what we expect at this point in the franchise's consecutive PO appearance streak. How many wins it took/takes to get there is irrelevant...and if the end point is not an SB trophy then it's not ultimately successful.
    Fun? Yes.
    Exciting? Yup.
    Cool? Certainly.
    Just not ultimately successful in my book.

    However, this organization is long beyond the point of looking back on an 10, 11, 12 win season and celebrating that achievement alone (i.e., wins) unless it ends with a banner and an SB trophy. I don't see why that should change just b/c those wins can be tagged to a certain individual...even if I like him.




  7. #55

    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Good FUCKING GRIEF!!! Can you people possibly have a debate without slapping each other around in the process? Folks, this has been grating on me now for weeks. I don't care what side of the Joe Flacco fence you are on. And you can argue that side up and down, just as I have done. But people need to begin backing down the hostilities. Everytime someone disagrees these days, they have to attack each other and it's completely unbecoming of the quality of this forum, which had prided itself on NOT like the "others".

    So I am asking please, everyone tone it down and let's debate this civil-like. Please?




  8. #56

    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Now, my take. The thing is that every year since Joe has been here, the Ravens have been in the playoffs. That is why 60 wins is a big deal of an accomplishment. The goal is ALWAYS to win the Super Bowl. But you cannot get to the Super Bowl without going to the playoffs. So every year for the past five, the Ravens have had the opportunity to get to the Super Bowl, which is something that not many teams in this league get to do. In fact, if you remember, only ONE team is different in the entire AFC playoff picture this year. Which means once again, about the same 10 AFC teams are sitting home.

    Take it a step farther. Flacco has won a playoff game in every year as well, has never been one-and-done. Twice this team has gotten to the AFCC, and once was Lee Evans away from actually going to the SB.

    This is something we couldn't do with any of the other QB's we've had in the team's history. And this is something no other team in the league has been able to do with their QB's first five years.

    I want the Ravens to get the ring this year. And I'm always disappointed that they haven't. But at least thanks in part to much needed stability at the QB with a guy that in MY opinion is on that cusp of getting to that level everyone's arguing about, the Ravens have had that chance to get there every year for half a decade now.

    And I don't believe it's an accomplishment you easily brush aside.




  9. #57
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Now, my take. The thing is that every year since Joe has been here, the Ravens have been in the playoffs. That is why 60 wins is a big deal of an accomplishment. The goal is ALWAYS to win the Super Bowl. But you cannot get to the Super Bowl without going to the playoffs. So every year for the past five, the Ravens have had the opportunity to get to the Super Bowl, which is something that not many teams in this league get to do. In fact, if you remember, only ONE team is different in the entire AFC playoff picture this year. Which means once again, about the same 10 AFC teams are sitting home.

    Take it a step farther. Flacco has won a playoff game in every year as well, has never been one-and-done. Twice this team has gotten to the AFCC, and once was Lee Evans away from actually going to the SB.

    This is something we couldn't do with any of the other QB's we've had in the team's history. And this is something no other team in the league has been able to do with their QB's first five years.

    I want the Ravens to get the ring this year. And I'm always disappointed that they haven't. But at least thanks in part to much needed stability at the QB with a guy that in MY opinion is on that cusp of getting to that level everyone's arguing about, the Ravens have had that chance to get there every year for half a decade now.

    And I don't believe it's an accomplishment you easily brush aside.
    I think another important milestone was that Flacco overcame a bad day by Rice (not hating - everyone has them) and still put got'em in position to put 24 points on the board.




  10. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by saintmatthew View Post
    I think another important milestone was that Flacco overcame a bad day by Rice (not hating - everyone has them) and still put got'em in position to put 24 points on the board.
    A very important point and a very important moment in Joe's career. It means a boatload to the team's future chances of a trophy.
    Yea at #17--running list: Beckham Jr, Dennard, Donald, Gilbert
    Nay at #17--running list: Clinton-Dix, Ebron, Hageman, Jernigan, Lee, Mosley, Pryor
    On the fence at #17: Cooks, Martin

    Having fun talking football on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  11. #59
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    In today's NFL people want to compare stats. Joe is not Brady or Manning or Rodgers and he never will be IMO. But he does have some strengths that can be tough for defenses to deal with. If he can level out his play a little bit, he'll be considered top 10 by many.

    I've accepted that he is what he is, and he's not going anywhere. Get some talent around him and he should continue to improve.
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  12. #60
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    Re: Joe Flacco Earns 60th Career Win: Most All Time In First Five Years of a QB's Career!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    In today's NFL people want to compare stats. Joe is not Brady or Manning or Rodgers and he never will be IMO. But he does have some strengths that can be tough for defenses to deal with. If he can level out his play a little bit, he'll be considered top 10 by many.

    I've accepted that he is what he is, and he's not going anywhere. Get some talent around him and he should continue to improve.


    In case anyone missed it...
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt
    When it comes to quarterbacks, don't pay attention to stats; pay attention to guys who make crucial plays at crucial times. -Gil Brandt


    My RSR Blog:
    http://russellstreetreport.com/author/paullukoskie/




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