How we should attack the Patriots

**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:19 PM

I did and how old is Champ?

Or better yet....Did you really just mention Champ to qualify Smith's speed?

**PGCountyRaven85** · 01-17-2013, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by mgcolby

McCourtey runs a 4.3 and Smith runs a 4.4???

I don't think Flacco can get it done with consistancy, but that is what it will take for the Ravens to win. If they can move the ball over the middle without Flacco making mistakes it will be tough for New England.

There's a huge difference between 40 times and game speed. If you go by 40 times, Jacoby Jones is 4.5 guy, yet you'd be hard pressed to find people in the NFL who'd believe that he's that slow.

**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85

Wow! So that Patriots are gonna play the safeties back in a Cover 2 look to stop the big plays down the sideline, while at the same time shutting down the running game. Who are they, the 2000 Ravens?

You clearly have not watched too many Patriots games this year. We don't stop the run with 8 men in the box. The front 7 gets it done.

**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:24 PM

I understand that, but do you have a better way to compare two guy's speed who came out one year apart?

**Paintballguy** · 01-17-2013, 05:27 PM

@CSNbaltimore: In Tom Brady's career (including playoffs), the #Ravens are the only team he has thrown more interceptions than TD against #RavensTalk

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**Paintballguy** · 01-17-2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by mgcolby

I did and how old is Champ?

Or better yet....Did you really just mention Champ to qualify Smith's speed?

He's not just doing it to champ it was just the most recent example against a probowl corner. Look at Torrey's yard per completion average

In two career games vs. Patriots (incl. playoffs), WR Torrey Smith has 9 catches for 209 yards (23.2 avg.) with 3 TDs.

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**JustaslowZ06** · 01-17-2013, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by mgcolby

McCourtey runs a 4.3 and Smith runs a 4.4???

I don't think Flacco can get it done with consistancy, but that is what it will take for the Ravens to win. If they can move the ball over the middle without Flacco making mistakes it will be tough for New England.

In shorts and a TShirt at the combine doesn't make for a adequate representation. Torrey has run past every corner in the league, to include burning your precious McCourty in the first match up. But it really doesn't matter because he won't be running with him anyway. So the whole argument is moot.

**JustaslowZ06** · 01-17-2013, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by mgcolby

I did and how old is Champ?

Or better yet....Did you really just mention Champ to qualify Smith's speed?

40 times mean about jcksquat. How fast can the guy tun his hips? How fast can he turn it on? How quickly can he recognize a play nd take the best available angle? All these are far far more important than 40 time in shorts and a tshirt. Hell if 40 times at the combine meant anything than Heyward Bey should have 2000 yard seasons every year. Or they should've brought in the "Bolt" or just scout the track guysat the olympics. Hell I'll take the whole Kenyan team for 500 alex and go 4 wide on fly's every down. Lets see your McCourty, or Champ or anyone stop that!

**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:42 PM

Look I know how fast Torrey Smith is. And I respect his threat, but there is more to beating guys deep then speed, see Jerry Rice. I was simply pointing out we have fast guys in the back end and Belichick won't be dumb enough to leave him in Man.

And he did torch us in Week 3 and to a lesser extent (going off memory) in last year's AFCCG. But this secondary is completely different from either of those games. Sterling Moore, Ighedibo (can never spell his name right), Chung, etc... are not roaming around back there.

Talib and Dennard are at CB and have made a huge difference. Now we have McCourty at Safety where we can use his athleticism while letting him react to the ball in front of him. Gregory is a big upgrade over Chung in the coverage area, not so much in the big hit, run stuffing role. And Arrington has been very good inside in the slot. It is not the same secondary.

**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

40 times mean about jcksquat. How fast can the guy tun his hips? How fast can he turn it on? How quickly can he recognize a play nd take the best available angle? All these are far far more important than 40 time in shorts and a tshirt. Hell if 40 times at the combine meant anything than Heyward Bey should have 2000 yard seasons every year. Or they should've brought in the "Bolt" or just scout the track guysat the olympics. Hell I'll take the whole Kenyan team for 500 alex and go 4 wide on fly's every down. Lets see your McCourty, or Champ or anyone stop that!

I completely agree with you. Although, the Colts didn't have any problem stopping Smith. They just didn't have enough horses to stop Boldin.

**Justlovemybirds** · 01-17-2013, 05:49 PM

I like how players are always devalued after playing the Ravens, Champ Bailey is a Pro Bowler and 2nd team All-Pro this year (not to mention the rhetoric before the game was that he'd shut Torrey down) and now because he was toasted by Torrey he's just an old, overrated corner.

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**Paintballguy** · 01-17-2013, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

I like how players are always devalued after playing the Ravens, Champ Bailey is a Pro Bowler and 2nd team All-Pro this year (not to mention the rhetoric before the game was that he'd shut Torrey down) and now because he was toasted by Torrey he's just an old, overrated corner.

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All last week I heard how bad champ was gonna shut down Torrey and now champ is a washed up scrub. It's hilarious

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**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

In shorts and a TShirt at the combine doesn't make for a adequate representation. Torrey has run past every corner in the league, to include burning your precious McCourty in the first match up. But it really doesn't matter because he won't be running with him anyway. So the whole argument is moot.

Can you debate it like an adult or do you have to throw in childish comments "your Precious" McCourtey?

Second, McCourtey was playing CB then and for whatever reason he just struggled over the past two years at CB. His athleticism has been on display since moving to safety and has really solidified the back end of the defense. His range is impressive, because of his speed.

**Bigfish** · 01-17-2013, 05:54 PM

We'll get our chances to go deep as we have all year. If you double up on Smith someone will get single coverage underneath. You can't double up on everyone with 11 players. What if we have Jones and Smith in, do we now draw 4 players to cover 2? In the Colts game Smith drew the safety into double coverage allowing Boldin to get isolated for big gains. I also expect to expose the linebackers in coverage. NFL network just showed when we played earlier in the year 2 linebackers trying to bracket Rice coming out of the backfield and they were too slow to contain him for a big game. It'll be a cat and mouse game on both sides. Like the Broncos game I expect to see some big plays and turnovers will have a huge impact on the game. Win the turnover battle will go a long way to winning the game.

**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

I like how players are always devalued after playing the Ravens, Champ Bailey is a Pro Bowler and 2nd team All-Pro this year (not to mention the rhetoric before the game was that he'd shut Torrey down) and now because he was toasted by Torrey he's just an old, overrated corner.

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Pro Bowls don't mean anything, its a popularity contest. Second, he is a solid corner, but he doesn't have the speed to shut down fast receivers any longer, he gets by on wit at this point. In addition look at who they played for offenses during their winning streak? Not exactly murderers row of WR/QB combos, NO was impressive to a degree but they were hit or miss this year. Your team was struggling on offense and missing Dickson when they played you. Dalton wasn't playing all that great in the 2nd half of the season etc....

I'm not devaluaing him because of your game, he simply isn't the same guy and hasn't been for the better part of the last two years.

**Paintballguy** · 01-17-2013, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by mgcolby

Pro Bowls don't mean anything, its a popularity contest. Second, he is a solid corner, but he doesn't have the speed to shut down fast receivers any longer, he gets by on wit at this point. In addition look at who they played for offenses during their winning streak? Not exactly murderers row of WR/QB combos, NO was impressive to a degree but they were hit or miss this year. Your team was struggling on offense and missing Dickson when they played you. Dalton wasn't playing all that great in the 2nd half of the season etc....

I'm not devaluaing him because of your game, he simply isn't the same guy and hasn't been for the better part of the last two years.

Stop talking out of your ass

This season Bailey has been responsible for stopping the opposition’s top receiver, and has done so while leading the league in Yards per Coverage Snap, with 0.82. He has done especially well during the Past five games — teams have avoided him, throwing his way only 16 times, and Bailey allowed just half of them to be caught for 85 yards.

From pff

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**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bigfish

We'll get our chances to go deep as we have all year. If you double up on Smith someone will get single coverage underneath. You can't double up on everyone with 11 players. What if we have Jones and Smith in, do we now draw 4 players to cover 2? In the Colts game Smith drew the safety into double coverage allowing Boldin to get isolated for big gains. I also expect to expose the linebackers in coverage. NFL network just showed when we played earlier in the year 2 linebackers trying to bracket Rice coming out of the backfield and they were too slow to contain him for a big game. It'll be a cat and mouse game on both sides. Like the Broncos game I expect to see some big plays and turnovers will have a huge impact on the game. Win the turnover battle will go a long way to winning the game.

Having Jones in does create a dillema. You have to double Smith and I would bracket Jones and put Talib in Man on Boldin in that situation. I don't think you will see them bracketing Rice, I think they will have a speedy LB (Tracy White) spying him out of the backfield. Mayo is not slow, Hightower is big but solid in coverage. Spikes is the weak link in the LB coverage.

The middle of the field is where Flacco has to be good. I just don't think he can do it. It seems it is either all or nothing with Flacco. Meaning he either hits for the big play or you guys putter out. The drive charts over the past two weeks point to that, only 4 drives of 7 or more plays and of those four drives only one resulted in points (FG).

I think your LB's have a bigger problem in coverage, Ellerbee is a huge liability in coverage, Ray is far to slow to be affective in coverage. I know it might be no no to say that on here. But don't believe me go back and watch him the last two weeks.

**PGCountyRaven85** · 01-17-2013, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by mgcolby

Pro Bowls don't mean anything, its a popularity contest. Second, he is a solid corner, but he doesn't have the speed to shut down fast receivers any longer, he gets by on wit at this point. In addition look at who they played for offenses during their winning streak? Not exactly murderers row of WR/QB combos, NO was impressive to a degree but they were hit or miss this year. Your team was struggling on offense and missing Dickson when they played you. Dalton wasn't playing all that great in the 2nd half of the season etc....

I'm not devaluaing him because of your game, he simply isn't the same guy and hasn't been for the better part of the last two years.

Throughout this season, Champ has shut down several receivers who are, if you go by 40 times, faster than Torrey Smith, e.g. Mike Wallace, Darius Heyward-Bey, Travis Benjamin, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, etc.

**Justlovemybirds** · 01-17-2013, 06:08 PM

Before our game there was nobody who, throughout the 16 game season, questioned whether or not Bailey was capable of shutting Torrey down. There's a reason the Broncos felt confident leaving him in man with no Safety help.

Also, if you focus on taking Boldin and Smith out, fine, but none of the linebackers can keep up Rice, Pitta or even Dickson.

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**mgcolby** · 01-17-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Stop talking out of your ass

This season Bailey has been responsible for stopping the opposition’s top receiver, and has done so while leading the league in Yards per Coverage Snap, with 0.82. He has done especially well during the Past five games — teams have avoided him, throwing his way only 16 times, and Bailey allowed just half of them to be caught for 85 yards.

From pff

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Out of my ass?

Last five games?

Impressive: Freeman, Palmer, Flacco, Weeden/Mcoy, and Quinn. That is your supporting argument?