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  1. #121

    Re: How we should attack the Patriots



    I'm sure this has been said, but the Ravens D have got to stay disciplined in the passing game otherwise Brady's gonna find that hole. The games I've seen Brady struggle is when

    a) when he gets pressured up the middle
    b) when defenses clog the middle of the field in the short and intermediate areas

    Even when point a) can't be accomplished, as long as passing lanes in the middle short/intermediate areas are clogged up, Brady is going to be uncomfortable. We still don't have a deep threat in a conventional way like you guys have in SMith or when Moss was with us. Brady doesn't like to throw low percentage throws so he tries to avoid having to do so. The X factor is our running game. If we get that going, your defense will need to come up and that will give guys like Lloyd better separation when going deep. That's when Brady will throw those deep passes. Another wrinkle in our passing O this year is how we use our RBs in the passing game. As I've mentioned earlier, we don't have a conventional WR who can go deep. We used Gronk a lot for our deep passes. And the reason why we did so was because he was always in a favorable matchup = too fast for LBs and S, and too big for CBs. With him gone, I see use going to our RBs, especially Vereen. He's almost like a WR as far as his ability in the passing game. I'm expecting him to go wide like he did against Houston a lot. If Ray stays on him or Ellerbe, that's a matchup Brady will go to all day long.




  2. #122

    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD View Post
    I'm sure this has been said, but the Ravens D have got to stay disciplined in the passing game otherwise Brady's gonna find that hole. The games I've seen Brady struggle is when

    a) when he gets pressured up the middle
    b) when defenses clog the middle of the field in the short and intermediate areas

    Even when point a) can't be accomplished, as long as passing lanes in the middle short/intermediate areas are clogged up, Brady is going to be uncomfortable. We still don't have a deep threat in a conventional way like you guys have in SMith or when Moss was with us. Brady doesn't like to throw low percentage throws so he tries to avoid having to do so. The X factor is our running game. If we get that going, your defense will need to come up and that will give guys like Lloyd better separation when going deep. That's when Brady will throw those deep passes. Another wrinkle in our passing O this year is how we use our RBs in the passing game. As I've mentioned earlier, we don't have a conventional WR who can go deep. We used Gronk a lot for our deep passes. And the reason why we did so was because he was always in a favorable matchup = too fast for LBs and S, and too big for CBs. With him gone, I see use going to our RBs, especially Vereen. He's almost like a WR as far as his ability in the passing game. I'm expecting him to go wide like he did against Houston a lot. If Ray stays on him or Ellerbe, that's a matchup Brady will go to all day long.
    Very good points. I expect the Ravens' defensive gameplan to center around mixing up the looks in the middle of the field. As you said, interior pressure is the key to beating Brady, but he and his OL are very good at picking up obvious blitzers. If you line an ILB up in the A-gap and blitz him with no deception Brady is going to throw right into the vacated spot for a nice gain with YAC.

    I expect them to confuse him with unorthodox looks. For example, lining up both Ellerbe and Lewis in a double A-gap blitz look, then drop both of them and send a slot corner blitz instead. I expect the Ravens to play nickel 100% of the time, but if you don't play the run tough out of the nickel Ridley will kill you and if you get too aggressive crashing the gaps Brady goes play action and hits the deep middle.

    It's a tall order, but the Ravens have seen this offense before. As much as people think Vereen's big explosion last week is going to be a factor, the Ravens are very used to seeing these looks out of the Patriots. It's just that last year they were doing it with Hernandez out of the backfield instead of Vereen. The concepts aren't changing, just the personnel and sometimes the looks. The key is going to be play recognition both ways.

    The Patriots "blur" offense is a double edged sword when you're going up against a veteran defense like the Ravens. Sure, you can gas them if you hit on a bunch of plays in a row. But the problem is, if you go too fast, one missed block on a run blitz and you're looking at 2nd and 13, one pass defensed and you're looking at 2nd and 10, and you don't run hurry up into 2nd and 3rd and long. That's what killed the Patriots in the first game; they thought they could get nice gains on early down runs out of the no huddle but it didn't work and they kept ending up in 3rd downs needing to huddle and slow the offense down.

    The Ravens offense is going to see a lot of good matchups. The key again is going to be forcing the Patriots out of their comfort zone. They want to rush 4 and play aggressive 2 deep with the corners in press and press bail with safeties over the top. But they don't really have the personnel to win with 4 and Flacco has been money against a 4 man rush this year. Force them to blitz and go to soft zones; the secondary is just too young and small to keep up.

    If the Ravens come out with pro set personnel (2 backs, 1 TE, 2 WR) how do the Pats respond? If they go to base 2 deep send Pitta up the deep seam and Torrey on the post. The strong safety Gregory can be abused in coverage and lacks recovery speed with the ball in the air so one of the two will be open if the OL provides time. Boldin should roam the middle of the field; I personally would not test Talib with him too much 1 on 1. If they try to get Boldin to beat him man to man they probably won't win but they can scheme around that matchup. If the Ravens come out with 3WR or 2TE and the Pats respond with nickel I'd run into it away from Wilfork.

    It's going to be a good matchup. I doubt either team is intimidated at all on either side of the ball.




  3. #123

    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Very good points. I expect the Ravens' defensive gameplan to center around mixing up the looks in the middle of the field. As you said, interior pressure is the key to beating Brady, but he and his OL are very good at picking up obvious blitzers. If you line an ILB up in the A-gap and blitz him with no deception Brady is going to throw right into the vacated spot for a nice gain with YAC.

    I expect them to confuse him with unorthodox looks. For example, lining up both Ellerbe and Lewis in a double A-gap blitz look, then drop both of them and send a slot corner blitz instead. I expect the Ravens to play nickel 100% of the time, but if you don't play the run tough out of the nickel Ridley will kill you and if you get too aggressive crashing the gaps Brady goes play action and hits the deep middle.

    It's a tall order, but the Ravens have seen this offense before. As much as people think Vereen's big explosion last week is going to be a factor, the Ravens are very used to seeing these looks out of the Patriots. It's just that last year they were doing it with Hernandez out of the backfield instead of Vereen. The concepts aren't changing, just the personnel and sometimes the looks. The key is going to be play recognition both ways.

    The Patriots "blur" offense is a double edged sword when you're going up against a veteran defense like the Ravens. Sure, you can gas them if you hit on a bunch of plays in a row. But the problem is, if you go too fast, one missed block on a run blitz and you're looking at 2nd and 13, one pass defensed and you're looking at 2nd and 10, and you don't run hurry up into 2nd and 3rd and long. That's what killed the Patriots in the first game; they thought they could get nice gains on early down runs out of the no huddle but it didn't work and they kept ending up in 3rd downs needing to huddle and slow the offense down.

    The Ravens offense is going to see a lot of good matchups. The key again is going to be forcing the Patriots out of their comfort zone. They want to rush 4 and play aggressive 2 deep with the corners in press and press bail with safeties over the top. But they don't really have the personnel to win with 4 and Flacco has been money against a 4 man rush this year. Force them to blitz and go to soft zones; the secondary is just too young and small to keep up.

    If the Ravens come out with pro set personnel (2 backs, 1 TE, 2 WR) how do the Pats respond? If they go to base 2 deep send Pitta up the deep seam and Torrey on the post. The strong safety Gregory can be abused in coverage and lacks recovery speed with the ball in the air so one of the two will be open if the OL provides time. Boldin should roam the middle of the field; I personally would not test Talib with him too much 1 on 1. If they try to get Boldin to beat him man to man they probably won't win but they can scheme around that matchup. If the Ravens come out with 3WR or 2TE and the Pats respond with nickel I'd run into it away from Wilfork.

    It's going to be a good matchup. I doubt either team is intimidated at all on either side of the ball.
    That's a good breakdown.

    I expect our defense to take away the deep ball at all cost and make your offense drive the entire field for scores. It could be fatal to us though if that means Brady stays on the sidelines for long stretches and never gets into a rhythm. That's what I'm worried about the most. That's what the Jets did to us in 2010 playoff game.

    But if we score when we do have the ball, I think that puts the stress on your O to match us and can open up the game. I like our chances if that's the case. Our D is pretty good causing a TO when the games speeds up.




  4. #124
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    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD View Post
    That's a good breakdown.

    I expect our defense to take away the deep ball at all cost and make your offense drive the entire field for scores. It could be fatal to us though if that means Brady stays on the sidelines for long stretches and never gets into a rhythm. That's what I'm worried about the most. That's what the Jets did to us in 2010 playoff game.

    But if we score when we do have the ball, I think that puts the stress on your O to match us and can open up the game. I like our chances if that's the case. Our D is pretty good causing a TO when the games speeds up.
    If they start playing 2 man or cover 2, Caldwell will just run Rice and start working play action to Pitta and others. That's what I like about Caldwell. He adjusts. Like in the Colts game, they doubled Torrey and pressed up on the receivers. So they started taking deep shots to Boldin and he had a huge game because he was in single coverage.




  5. #125
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    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD View Post
    That's a good breakdown.

    I expect our defense to take away the deep ball at all cost and make your offense drive the entire field for scores. It could be fatal to us though if that means Brady stays on the sidelines for long stretches and never gets into a rhythm. That's what I'm worried about the most. That's what the Jets did to us in 2010 playoff game.

    But if we score when we do have the ball, I think that puts the stress on your O to match us and can open up the game. I like our chances if that's the case. Our D is pretty good causing a TO when the games speeds up.
    If they start playing 2 man or cover 2, Caldwell will just run Rice and start working play action to Pitta and others. That's what I like about Caldwell. He adjusts. Like in the Colts game, they doubled Torrey and pressed up on the receivers. So they started taking deep shots to Boldin and he had a huge game because he was in single coverage.




  6. #126

    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    If they start playing 2 man or cover 2, Caldwell will just run Rice and start working play action to Pitta and others. That's what I like about Caldwell. He adjusts. Like in the Colts game, they doubled Torrey and pressed up on the receivers. So they started taking deep shots to Boldin and he had a huge game because he was in single coverage.
    Belichick will make sure your offense will have to convert in the red zone. His defenses are all about bend but don't break and he's willing to give up yards. However when the field gets squeezed in the red zone, he wants your offense to be kicking FGs and not scoring TDs. The theory is that long sustained drives gives the defense a better chance of creating a TO or for the offense to screw something up themselves. Not to mention that in the red zone, the options are more limited for the offense -- vertical speed is not a factor down there.




  7. #127
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    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD View Post
    Belichick will make sure your offense will have to convert in the red zone. His defenses are all about bend but don't break and he's willing to give up yards. However when the field gets squeezed in the red zone, he wants your offense to be kicking FGs and not scoring TDs. The theory is that long sustained drives gives the defense a better chance of creating a TO or for the offense to screw something up themselves. Not to mention that in the red zone, the options are more limited for the offense -- vertical speed is not a factor down there.
    You just described the Ravens defense also...

    Also, we have a massive o-line and leach that can help punch in the ball. Our rookie LG Kelechi Osemele is 6'5" 333 lbs and playing at an all-pro level. Plus, we have another all-pro guard in Yanda who was nursing an injury in last years afc championship. Our o-line man handled denver's front 7 last week that featured the best pass rusher and really good run defended in von miller.




  8. #128

    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    You just described the Ravens defense also...

    Also, we have a massive o-line and leach that can help punch in the ball. Our rookie LG Kelechi Osemele is 6'5" 333 lbs and playing at an all-pro level. Plus, we have another all-pro guard in Yanda who was nursing an injury in last years afc championship. Our o-line man handled denver's front 7 last week that featured the best pass rusher and really good run defended in von miller.
    Not surprised about that because Pees was with us for a couple of years. I remember his defenses well.

    Your O-line's ability to handle Wilfork and our LBs in the running game especially in the red zone is going to be integral to how this game will turn out.

    And with all due respect to how you guys handle Denver's DL last week, our front 7 is a hell of a lot better and definitely more desciplined when stopping the run than the Broncos.




  9. #129
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    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD View Post
    Your O-line's ability to handle Wilfork and our LBs in the running game especially in the red zone is going to be integral to how this game will turn out.
    Yeah I agree. I have confidence because he'll get doubled by either KO and Birk or Yanda and Birk. Wilfork is still good enough to blow up double teams. Should be an interesting matchup.




  10. #130
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    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFan in MD View Post
    Not surprised about that because Pees was with us for a couple of years. I remember his defenses well.

    Your O-line's ability to handle Wilfork and our LBs in the running game especially in the red zone is going to be integral to how this game will turn out.

    And with all due respect to how you guys handle Denver's DL last week, our front 7 is a hell of a lot better and definitely more desciplined when stopping the run than the Broncos.
    You front 7 is better than Denver's now? They've got Dumervill, Miller, Wolfe, Woodyard, Bannan (very underrated), Brooking (old, but still quite good). You guys have Vince Wilfork and a bunch of "guys." Also, they had the number 3 run defense, where you guys were like 9th or 10th. They allowed 3.6 p/c whereas you guys were 3.9. So how exactly is your run defense better and more disciplined than theirs? You guys have size in your front seven, but they've got speed, size and physicality...and Rice still ran for 130 yards against them.




  11. #131

    Re: How we should attack the Patriots

    Quote Originally Posted by PGCountyRaven85 View Post
    You front 7 is better than Denver's now? They've got Dumervill, Miller, Wolfe, Woodyard, Bannan (very underrated), Brooking (old, but still quite good). You guys have Vince Wilfork and a bunch of "guys." Also, they had the number 3 run defense, where you guys were like 9th or 10th. They allowed 3.6 p/c whereas you guys were 3.9. So how exactly is your run defense better and more disciplined than theirs? You guys have size in your front seven, but they've got speed, size and physicality...and Rice still ran for 130 yards against them.
    They played a lot of sh!tty teams to pad their stats and rankings. And I"m specifically talking about our run defense. Denver's front 7 can rush the passer better than us, but I'll take our run D over what they have. Our front 7 is built to stop the run with our big LBs.




  12. #132
    Yeah von Miller was about as good as the next three guys below him combined and he was a non factor last week.

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