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  1. #73
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    I'm reserving final judgement until the money trail is fully investigated.

    That said, the smoke surrounding Te'o is incredibly thick. Of course he could be a victim of a hoax, but it seems with each day there's a new question that needs to be answered.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #74

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    That would only be true if he is 100% guilty as you seem to believe he is, or should I say convinced he is.
    Okay, you're still not getting it. This isn't an issue of guilt or innocence. If I am incorrectly depicting your stance please feel free to correct me. But you have said that you believe Te'o was the victim of a hoax, and that at most, he lied to cover up the fact that he had never met her.

    I'm merely pointing out the fact that if that's true--if YOUR position is correct--then he still had to tell a LOT of lies to a LOT of people. Actually, I'll let your post from earlier speak to this issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I get that. To me and you that means in person. Haven't you ever hearing of people "meeting online" or it's also possible about what I said him saying they "met" to stop questions about why are you with a girl you haven't met

    There are a lot of lies, and I don't think he's entirely innocent, but I feel the majority of it he was caught up in a hoax. Maybe when he found out he started lying and said we met etc.

    But I don't believe he started the whole thing from the beginning and called a phone for hours with no one on the other end (which ND's investigation confirmed he did do) to tell people he talked to his girlfriend at night. If he did that than he is mentally ill.
    My emphasis added to the above post. All I'm saying is that if your position is correct, Te'o had to deceive a lot of people--even if he did it out for understandable reasons. I just don't see an average person going to that length of deception without THEMSELVES becoming suspicious of being deceived. But, I will readily grant that love causes people to do bizarre things--that's why, once again, I must concede that your position raises good points and can't simply be dismissed out of hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Which is pretty shocking to me, when you want to convict someone in the court of public opinion without even hearing their side of the story.
    I have a number of problems with this statement. First of all, that statement--"convicting someone in the court of public opinion"--is just totally bogus. We're merely expressing our opinions here, and (unless I'm mistaken) none of us have any kind of media cachet or influence to rise to the level of influencing public opinion. Is this any different from debating the issue around the water cooler? Why does skepticism of Te'o's stance rise to the level of "convicting" him? He's not on trial here and he GAVE his statement yesterday (although he's also said he's going to give another statement today.) We're free to judge it as we will. He's a public figure and so subject to public scrutiny.

    I can separate my private opinion regarding a matter from my professional ability to draw conclusions from evidence. At this point, we're all pretty much pissing into the wind as far as actual fact-finding, I can readily admit that. But I think your attempt to smear me personally for my opinion is beneath you and not deserving of inclusion in this discussion. Disagree with me as you please and we'll all grow and benefit from the discussion, but don't lower yourself to a personal attack.




  3. #75

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I'm reserving final judgement until the money trail is fully investigated.

    That said, the smoke surrounding Te'o is incredibly thick. Of course he could be a victim of a hoax, but it seems with each day there's a new question that needs to be answered.
    Agreed 100%. All we're trying to point out here is that there are a ton of inconsistencies that make the official version of events seem quite a bit less than fully credible. Doesn't mean it's DEFINITELY not true, but there's more to this than we've gotten, and I agree that the biggest outstanding issue is the money.




  4. #76
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    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Okay, you're still not getting it. This isn't an issue of guilt or innocence. If I am incorrectly depicting your stance please feel free to correct me. But you have said that you believe Te'o was the victim of a hoax, and that at most, he lied to cover up the fact that he had never met her.

    I'm merely pointing out the fact that if that's true--if YOUR position is correct--then he still had to tell a LOT of lies to a LOT of people. Actually, I'll let your post from earlier speak to this issue:
    No that is not my stance, I am simply throwing out possibilities of what happened since we still don't know everything or his side of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I have a number of problems with this statement. First of all, that statement--"convicting someone in the court of public opinion"--is just totally bogus. We're merely expressing our opinions here
    Which are public right? I think you're being to literal with taking my comment of public opinion to the exact definition.


    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Is this any different from debating the issue around the water cooler? Why does skepticism of Te'o's stance rise to the level of "convicting" him? He's not on trial here and he GAVE his statement yesterday (although he's also said he's going to give another statement today.) We're free to judge it as we will. He's a public figure and so subject to public scrutiny.
    Sorry, has there been somewhere where we are debating this, or just where you've been trying to convince us he's guilty?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I can separate my private opinion regarding a matter from my professional ability to draw conclusions from evidence. At this point, we're all pretty much pissing into the wind as far as actual fact-finding, I can readily admit that. But I think your attempt to smear me personally for my opinion is beneath you and not deserving of inclusion in this discussion. Disagree with me as you please and we'll all grow and benefit from the discussion, but don't lower yourself to a personal attack.
    I'm not lowering myself to a personal attack. I am calling it as I see it. Someone in law enforcement is saying someone is guilty based of one article and not hearing the other side of the story, so much so that the have said Manti is "A practiced and skillful deceiver".

    He may be the biggest fraud ever, but I think based of one article (slanted or not) is a bit premature to claim we know enough to say he is a "A practiced and skillful deceiver".
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #77

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Jim Rome, not really a fan, was just saying on the radio basically what we are here. There isnt enough to say its 100% either way, but something is fishy, mostly that for somebody he called his "soul mate" to not show up when she was sick or the funeral yet still refer to her as his GF is just really odd. Doesnt mean its not true but the fact hes now turning down interviews and continuing to hide even though hes claiming to be a victim lets more people question his sincerity. He said about taking time to prepare his statements and that if he is a victim he should be yelling from the rooftop that he is. i dont know if i agree with the last part at all but it would put it to rest in public opinioin i believe.

    If there is money involved than that would be more damning than any of this. Really this effects nobody and im just curious how it effects his draft stock. people getting swindled is another issue entirely.
    -JAB




  6. #78

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    I'm not sure how Bmorecareful's posts are being misread.

    At the VERY LEAST, Te'o was deceiving his family and freinds. That much cannot be denied. His father at least pointed to the fact that Te'o mentioned she was in Hawaii and that Te'o had met in person.

    So the best light you can paint Te'o in is that he had an online girlfriend whom he claimed to have met in person to avoid the shame his teammates and parents would place on him. That is the BEST possible light. IF you buy into the catfish angle of the story, then he simply deceived his circle of influence into believing their relationship was more then it was. Again, not the most horrible thing ever, but it still is a chain of lies and deception.

    I can buy that as one of amny posibilities, but I certainly dn't think the preponderance of evidence points to that as basically the only scenario. I agree that it certainly smells more then a little fishy that he was in on the whole thing. Besides the publicity angle, I think there are several other reasons he could have been involved. I think the 8 hour phone calls are even explainable with other possible scenarios.

    So at the very least, Te'o comes out of this smelling fishy.




  7. #79

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    No that is not my stance, I am simply throwing out possibilities of what happened since we still don't know everything or his side of the story.

    Which are public right? I think you're being to literal with taking my comment of public opinion to the exact definition.

    Sorry, has there been somewhere where we are debating this, or just where you've been trying to convince us he's guilty?

    I'm not lowering myself to a personal attack. I am calling it as I see it. Someone in law enforcement is saying someone is guilty based of one article and not hearing the other side of the story, so much so that the have said Manti is "A practiced and skillful deceiver".

    He may be the biggest fraud ever, but I think based of one article (slanted or not) is a bit premature to claim we know enough to say he is a "A practiced and skillful deceiver".
    Find me ONE TIME where I said he was "guilty" of anything. He's not been charged with a crime and it certainly doesn't look like he's going to be based on what we know.

    All I have said is that it seems likely to me that he had some degree of knowledge about what was going on, and I don't believe he's completely the victim that the official statements make him out to be. I have no idea what the extent of his knowledge or role in the hoax may have been. It's all a big mess that nobody knows for sure about.

    You seem to be really hung up on the fact that I used those words earlier to describe Te'o, but I used them SPECIFICALLY in the context of the claim (that you're now denying that you made or agreed with) that Te'o lied to his family about having met her, lied about the circumstances surrounding her, etc. IF he did those things, then what else is he? I really find it hard to see how Manti couldn't have told a bunch of lies and deceived a lot of people over this.

    In retrospect, my words were too strong even given that context and I apologize for them. I do NOT want to give the impression that I'm passing judgment on Manti's character as a whole, which is an unknown to all but those who know him well. I see indications of deception here, but that's not a value judgment. Everybody lies, everybody deceives somebody at one point or another in their lives, some of us just do it from a bigger stage.

    I think what you're telling me is that you don't like the opinions I'm expressing and you don't believe I should be expressing them publicly. I don't want to be disagreeable so I'm going to oblige you and take a break from this thread for a while and maybe come back once more information is known. PM me if you're still unsatisfied.




  8. #80
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    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Find me ONE TIME where I said he was "guilty" of anything. He's not been charged with a crime and it certainly doesn't look like he's going to be based on what we know.
    I did not mean guilty of a crime. I am sure you've noticed, I'm not big into long drawn out thorough post covering every possible objection that may come in response. When I say guilty, I mean guilty of the fullest claims here - that he was fully involved with the hoax from the begining

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    All I have said is that it seems likely to me that he had some degree of knowledge about what was going on, and I don't believe he's completely the victim that the official statements make him out to be. I have no idea what the extent of his knowledge or role in the hoax may have been. It's all a big mess that nobody knows for sure about.
    Which I have no problem with and could certainly turn out to be the case. It just didn't come off that way. It seemed as though you thought we (people looking for explanations/possibilities of him being innocent) were stupid and naive for believing anything other than he fully participated from beginning to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    You seem to be really hung up on the fact that I used those words earlier to describe Te'o, but I used them SPECIFICALLY in the context of the claim (that you're now denying that you made or agreed with) that Te'o lied to his family about having met her, lied about the circumstances surrounding her, etc. IF he did those things, then what else is he? I really find it hard to see how Manti couldn't have told a bunch of lies and deceived a lot of people over this.
    I am not denying I said them, I am throwing out possibilities of explanations, that's all

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    In retrospect, my words were too strong even given that context and I apologize for them. I do NOT want to give the impression that I'm passing judgment on Manti's character as a whole, which is an unknown to all but those who know him well. I see indications of deception here, but that's not a value judgment. Everybody lies, everybody deceives somebody at one point or another in their lives, some of us just do it from a bigger stage.

    I think what you're telling me is that you don't like the opinions I'm expressing and you don't believe I should be expressing them publicly. I don't want to be disagreeable so I'm going to oblige you and take a break from this thread for a while and maybe come back once more information is known. PM me if you're still unsatisfied.
    No, express anything you wish. You really think I have a problem with someone expressing an opinion on a message board? Really? I don't think you believe that.

    I just didn't like that seemed there was no other option due to what you felt was more evidence pointing to him being behind the whole thing, without hearing his side of the story (other than a statement he released) or answers to the questions we all think need to be asked. And that may not been exactly what you were doing, it might be more of the larger problem I have with nowadays people being accused of something now means they did it.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #81

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    I'm finding this fascinating.

    Bmorecareful has covered everything I would say, I think, except I differ with him (and HR) on this point:

    I'm not really interested in a money trail. I don't know what urge might have led to the deception at work here, but (a) I think, as bmorecareful and others have said, currently the needle is pointing to "He Was In On It," and (b) it may not have been for money. It may have begun as a small story, like chef Robert Irvine's embellished resume, for some reason as simple as wanting to appear to have a girlfriend for some small reason (machismo, or whatever).

    And then, in Chef Irvine's case, they started putting his bloated resume material on tv, or in Te'o's case Sports Illustrated started asking about the fake girlfriend, and soon the lies and shenanigans spun out of control.

    Robert Irvine resurrected his career without ever really confronting the fact that he was a big fat liar. I imagine Te'o will, too.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  10. #82

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    This story keeps getting stranger.. Not sure if it was noted in the thread but we have an NFL player stating he's met the supposed "girlfriend"

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/...d-she-is-real/

    Reagan Mauia, who played in two games for the Arizona Cardinals last season, said he met Lennay Kekua in person during an outreach trip with Troy Polamalu of the Pittsburgh Steelers and others in June 2011.

    And her Twitter account has come back to life claiming the truth will come out at noon PST today.

    Then later Wednesday night came a tweet from @LennayKay -- a Twitter handle that once was associated with Kekua.

    "It isn't fair to drag Reagan and Troy into this.. a lot of truths and myths need to be addressed here, and they will be at noon PST tomorrow," the tweet said.

    The other two tweets on the page were retweets from the verified account of Te'o.

    "@LennayKay I miss you!" said a November 6 tweet from Te'o's said.

    On September 12, Te'o tweeted "@LennayKay you will always be with me wherever I go!"




  11. #83

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mjones73 View Post
    This story keeps getting stranger.. Not sure if it was noted in the thread but we have an NFL player stating he's met the supposed "girlfriend"

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/...d-she-is-real/

    Reagan Mauia, who played in two games for the Arizona Cardinals last season, said he met Lennay Kekua in person during an outreach trip with Troy Polamalu of the Pittsburgh Steelers and others in June 2011.

    And her Twitter account has come back to life claiming the truth will come out at noon PST today.

    Then later Wednesday night came a tweet from @LennayKay -- a Twitter handle that once was associated with Kekua.

    "It isn't fair to drag Reagan and Troy into this.. a lot of truths and myths need to be addressed here, and they will be at noon PST tomorrow," the tweet said.

    The other two tweets on the page were retweets from the verified account of Te'o.

    "@LennayKay I miss you!" said a November 6 tweet from Te'o's said.

    On September 12, Te'o tweeted "@LennayKay you will always be with me wherever I go!"
    so wait, now shes real? I thought the Hoax part was that she never existed to begin with (pictures were of some other girl that never met him). How are people meeting a non-existent person?
    -JAB




  12. #84

    Re: Manti Te'o hoax (wth?!?)

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    so wait, now shes real? I thought the Hoax part was that she never existed to begin with (pictures were of some other girl that never met him). How are people meeting a non-existent person?
    I have no idea, just pointing out this keeps getting stranger. I guess we'll see what news comes out in an hour or so.

    Looking at the twitter account mentioned, 2 hours ago this was posted - "I will be releasing a statement via twitter, between 11am and noon today"




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