Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

[callahan09]

i defended him as one of the better deep ball QBs in the league which these numbers would seem to support. Im not sure who else would have over a 120 rating on deep passes. Any chance you have Rodgers numbers? I believe most say hes the best when arguing that Flacco isnt good at all.

I could look them up. Takes a little while though and I don't have the free time to do it at this moment, but maybe in a little bit.

[jonboy79]

Drew Brees while ur at it... I think he's got the best deep ball stats, last i checkd at least

[callahan09]

i defended him as one of the better deep ball QBs in the league which these numbers would seem to support. Im not sure who else would have over a 120 rating on deep passes. Any chance you have Rodgers numbers? I believe most say hes the best when arguing that Flacco isnt good at all.

Turns out I had a moment to get this info for you, but I didn't bother looking up penalty yards this time.... Here it is:

Aaron Rodgers

Deep Left: 9/27, 218 Yards, 3 TD, 0 INT --> 33.3%, 8.1 Y/A, 100.5 QB Rating
Deep Middle: 12/25, 341 Yards, 4 TD, 3 INT --> 48%, 13.6 Y/A, 94.2 QB Rating
Deep Right: 26/52, 850 Yards, 8 TD, 1 INT --> 50%, 16.3 Y/A, 127.4 QB Rating

Deep All: 47/104, 1409 Yards, 15 TD, 4 INT --> 45.2%, 13.5 Y/A, 115.4 QB Rating

This is... remarkably similar to Joe's numbers! Comparing them... Flacco's stat first, then Rodgers', better number italicized:

Completion Percentage: 43.1% < 45.2%
Yards Per Attempt: 13.1 < 13.5
Yards: 1799 > 1409
TDs: 15 = 15
INTs: 2 > 4
QB Rating: 120.5 > 115.4

Very close in nearly every regard, but Flacco's got the slight edge on him.

[callahan09]

Drew Brees while ur at it... I think he's got the best deep ball stats, last i checkd at least

Hope I get a chance to look into it shortly for you... For now, check out my comparison of Flacco to Rodgers just above this comment.

[callahan09]

Drew Brees while ur at it... I think he's got the best deep ball stats, last i checkd at least

Alright, got some time to do this one as well:

Drew Brees

Deep Left: 14/35, 433 Yards, 4 TD, 3 INT --> 40%, 12.4 Y/A, 89.3 QB Rating
Deep Middle: 22/39, 681 Yards, 4 TD, 4 INT --> 56.4%, 17.5 Y/A, 95.8 QB Rating
Deep Right: 16/33, 459 Yards, 4 TD, 0 INT --> 48.5%, 13.9 Y/A, 134.2 QB Rating

Deep All: 52/107, 1573 Yards, 12 TD, 7 INT --> 48.6%, 14.7 Y/A, 104.8 QB Rating

[Paintballguy]

So can we put this tendency to the right side thing to bed now?

[jonboy79]

So can we put this tendency to the right side thing to bed now?

and anything about Flacco not being amongst the very best deep ball passers in football.

[callahan09]

and anything about Flacco not being amongst the very best deep ball passers in football.

I was curious to compare him to some other greats. I don't know how much further I'm going to go, if you want to see anybody else, let me know, but for now I figured I'd compare him with Peyton Manning as well:

Peyton Manning

Deep Left: 23/40, 656 Yards, 5 TD, 0 INT --> 57.5%, 16.4 Y/A, 141.7 QB Rating
Deep Middle: 11/25, 302 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT --> 44%, 12.1 Y/A, 99.1 QB Rating
Deep Right: 18/42, 500 Yards, 3 TD, 5 INT --> 42.9%, 11.9 Y/A, 71.6 QB Rating

Deep All: 52/107, 1458 Yards, 10 TD, 6 INT --> 48.6%, 13.6 Y/A, 102.5 QB Rating

[jonboy79]

If you arefeeling up to the challenge, all three rooks have made some hey with the long ball... Luck, RGIII and Wilson.

[RavenousD]

If you arefeeling up to the challenge, all three rooks have made some hey with the long ball... Luck, RGIII and Wilson.

Would love to see him compared to Marino, say, first some-dd year comparison?

[JAB1985]

Turns out I had a moment to get this info for you, but I didn't bother looking up penalty yards this time.... Here it is:

Aaron Rodgers

Deep Left: 9/27, 218 Yards, 3 TD, 0 INT --> 33.3%, 8.1 Y/A, 100.5 QB Rating
Deep Middle: 12/25, 341 Yards, 4 TD, 3 INT --> 48%, 13.6 Y/A, 94.2 QB Rating
Deep Right: 26/52, 850 Yards, 8 TD, 1 INT --> 50%, 16.3 Y/A, 127.4 QB Rating

Deep All: 47/104, 1409 Yards, 15 TD, 4 INT --> 45.2%, 13.5 Y/A, 115.4 QB Rating

This is... remarkably similar to Joe's numbers! Comparing them... Flacco's stat first, then Rodgers', better number italicized:

Completion Percentage: 43.1% < 45.2%
Yards Per Attempt: 13.1 < 13.5
Yards: 1799 > 1409
TDs: 15 = 15
INTs: 2 > 4
QB Rating: 120.5 > 115.4

Very close in nearly every regard, but Flacco's got the slight edge on him.

Thanks Callahan09, great work. Ive had that argument with people very often, even this past weekend I had a buddy keeping track of Flaccos "bad throws" vs good ones because "Rodgers doesnt have bad passes". After comparing the two games, pretty obvious that Rodgers does have some miscues from time to time and certainly over an entire season, but i didnt have the numbers to support it, just my eye. Elites always get passes for bad throws and people act like they never make mistakes. Flacco is under a microscope and every mistake is amplified. The way he stacks up against those elites is incredible also when considering he has more attempts than any of them as well. I wonder if his agent has these numbers...

[BigPlayReceiver]

I've looked at these numbers obsessively over the past 3-4 years. I posted comparisons vs. Joe's contemporaries back in September. And like I've been saying all season; if we can get some consistency from #5 then this offense goes through the roof in 3 moves.
1. Fix the OL (may have been accomplished though only for the short term considering BM's age)
2. Get a WR that can get open with his feet
3. Get a big RZ target

All three of these can be accomplished (or confirmed) this OS... if so, and when this offense explodes, the reality WRT Joe's huge, new contract will be Wow...we actually UNDERpaid.

[JAB1985]

I've looked at these numbers obsessively over the past 3-4 years. I posted comparisons vs. Joe's contemporaries back in September. And like I've been saying all season; if we can get some consistency from #5 then this offense goes through the roof in 3 moves.
1. Fix the OL (may have been accomplished though only for the short term considering BM's age)
2. Get a WR that can get open with his feet
3. Get a big RZ target

All three of these can be accomplished (or confirmed) this OS... if so, and when this offense explodes, the reality WRT Joe's huge, new contract will be Wow...we actually UNDERpaid.

1. Likely not on the Roster unless BM is retained.
2. May be on the roster (Doss, Reed, Thompson)
3. May be on the roster (Streeter)

i like the corps going forward and i still think its more likely we extend and reduce Boldin than outright release him. He really does give the O an attitude.

[BigPlayReceiver]

1. Likely not on the Roster unless BM is retained.
2. May be on the roster (Doss, Reed, Thompson)
3. May be on the roster (Streeter)

i like the corps going forward and i still think its more likely we extend and reduce Boldin than outright release him. He really does give the O an attitude.

1. Yes. BM or the Draft

2. I like Doss, but his IND performance was bullsh!t. I'm not as confident as I have been in the past. He has good feet, but if he goes into September with unreliable hands, he'll be no higher than the #4...again. I've yet to see Reed demonstrate a "separating release"; very few total opportunities over the years due to injuries. Thompson is more of a North-South track guy and I haven't seen him pressed/beat the press either. Maybe there's some 2011 Florida tape out there that shows otherwise?

3. Streeter has to show and prove that he knows the offense, can run some routes and has reliable hands. Essentially, he has to beat out Thompson, Willams, Reed and Doss b/c that's how we have run our offensive depth chart to-date (unless there are injuries, a guy's place in line depends on seniority and draft position). Now, with a new OC (Jim?) maybe that will change. Maybe the OC will go with more of a "package" offense than Cam ever did, within which Streeter would see some RZ snaps. Still...he'll have to show reliable hands.


I'm taken things OT, so let me come back to this...I know we have holes to fill on defense, but I also think that we have an opportunity to strengthen our offense. We need a TE that can block, so grab one that can also snatch a rebound off the rim; they will be some available (see FA thread). We need a savvy route runner (a budding Mason) that can beat tight man, and from rounds 2-5 there will be several: Patton, "Studman", Swope, Rogers, Johnson, Bumphis, Collins. All the better for Joe over the next 5-7 years.

[bmorecareful]

I like Doss, but his IND performance was bullsh!t. I'm not as confident as I have been in the past.

I agree with everything you said but especially in this respect. Doss has very limited tape to evaluate, but I haven't really seen anything that suggests to me he should be a starting receiver in the league. I don't see crispness or physicality in his routes, he doesn't seem to have long speed or suddenness/quickness to shake loose from tight coverage, and his best asset (hands/catch radius) has let him down when he's seen the field this year.

It's very disappointing to me because Doss has some potential. He's a natural and fluid receiver, but by the end of year 2 I just think you need to see more out of him than we're getting. I think the team feels the same way we do--they allowed Doss to take a good number of snaps as the #3 WR over the last half of the season, probably recognizing that Jacoby's work on returns necessitated him playing less snaps at WR. He didn't do too much with his snaps at #3 WR other than 2 impressive catches over the deep middle vs. Cleveland and vs. Oakland as well as a TD on a WR screen where his blockers did all the work. They also gave him a few looks at punt returner where he didn't do much outside of a good return vs. Denver.

That culminated with Doss's "performance" in the Indianapolis game... which was quite frankly a disaster as he dropped/failed to catch all 3 of his targets. So all in all, you have 2 nice catches, 1 good return, and about 5 dropped passes (I recall he also dropped one in the Pittsburgh loss and seem to recall another one at some point too.) That's a horrible rate of return even given the small sample size.

I thought over the last year or so that Doss had a good shot at replacing Boldin by 2013. I no longer think that at all. They drafted 2 WRs in rounds 2-4 in 2011 and it looks like one of them is going to pan out and one of them is going to be a replacement-level player. That's not bad but there are too many question marks regarding who's going to be the future starter across from Torrey.

[The Excellector]

We also have to take Joe's age and durability into account. He is much younger than the QBs viewed above him and has not missed a game.

[jonboy79]

We also have to take Joe's age and durability into account. He is much younger than the QBs viewed above him and has not missed a game.

Heck, a rookie Brandon Weeden is 3 years older then him... What a waste of a late fist round pick.

[wickedsolo]

We also have to take Joe's age and durability into account. He is much younger than the QBs viewed above him and has not missed a game.

This is a good point. The guy could conceivably play at a high level for another 8-10 years considering how durable he is.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner

[Sirdowski]

Heck, a rookie Brandon Weeden is 3 years older then him... What a waste of a late fist round pick.

It's amazing what desperation does to judgment.

[The Excellector]

If I were Baltimore, unless he plays a horrible game Sunday, I would be worried about getting his contract over with quickly. Unless Matt Ryan helps the Falcons win the Super Bowl, Joe is going to garner more than him. If Atlanta pays out big for Ryan, that will shoot Flacco's price up higher.