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  1. #109

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.



    Flacco is going to get 17+ mil per year. Four weeks ago people might have scoffed at the notion, but the facts are, that at this stage in his career he is better than Brady, better than both Mannings, better than Rivers, and maybe even better than Brees(yes, I said it.). He has won the most road playoff games in NFL history, in just his FIFTH FREAKING SEASON, more games in his first five years than any QB in NFL history, 3 AFC championship appearances, and now a Super Bowl appearance(and likely win). I wouldn't be surprised if he gets even close to 20 mil per year actually. Who right now is better than Flacco? Rodgers yes, I would say, but outside of him? Flacco has more than just taken a step in these playoffs, he's kicked down the door of the "Elite" club and said look bitches, I told your asses I was the best QB in the NFL, you'd best start believing it.




  2. #110
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    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Win a ring and he can have as much as he wants. At that point you hand him the contract and say "You fill this out, just think about how much you want to leave us to keep putting a team around you."




  3. #111

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    Which many, many - including myself - said last year after he outplayed Brady in NE last January.No doubt.

    Trust me, I'm not saying that Flacco shouldn't be paid handsomely - very handsomely. I just think that that $20/year range is very rarified air. It's also to a point, that if you're wrong, it's a franchise killer.

    Again (it kind of funny to me that I'm even debating this), I'm not arguing against Flacco, as much as that size of a deal isn't something you enter into lightly and you'd better be sure that Flacco's inconsistency are most certainly behind him
    Right, but that was one game, and it wasn't even as good as the 4 straight we are talking about now. I am on record as one that was still holding some doubt even including that game, especially after some clunkers during this year's regular season. But I also have been consistently critical of Cameron and always knew he was holding us/Joe back, but was never sure by how much, or even if it was for Joe's own good (i.e. if Joe were forced or allowed to take more risks to get more production that he would make more mistakes).

    But the night and day switch between pre-Cameron and post-Cameron and considering the competition and considering there are now 4 times as many such last-year-NE games (and even better than that game), I think removes all reasonable doubt. And that isn't to say that Joe won't throw in some clunkers, or even that there are not some aspects of his game that still need some improvement to get to the next (last) level (performance when being rushed, presnap reads, etc), or even that I would choose him in a one-season campaign over Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Peyton (though I probably would over a couple of those guys), it is just to say that we have actually seen a fairly prolonged stretch where he has performed at the highest level, a level that you would be hard-pressed to find using multiple, multiple years of 1st round draft picks trying.

    And I think his age also needs to be factored in. As good as Brees has been statistically and winning a SB, he is old(er). His contract pays him until he is 39. In other words, I think a younger Drew Brees gets even more money (maybe I am wrong), as his performance when he is 38 cannot necessarily be counted on to be his performance when he is 34 (now). This wouldn't be the case with Flacco.

    Anyway, I agree that such a huge contract can be very damaging if it doesn't work out, and I agree it shouldn't be entered into lightly, but I just don't see how we could rationalize not taking the risk associated with it.




  4. #112

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Flacco is going to get 17+ mil per year.
    And, IMO, that's where it should be, just not a base deal at $20M. I would certainly agree that the structure should include escalators that could push the deal to the $20M+/year range, if he continues to play as he is. QB deals are very easy to structure with incentives and escalators to reward the QB for good play (heck, that's the way his rookie deal was base deal of less than $9M, but he got paid well over $20M due to incentives and escalators).
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  5. #113

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Right, but that was one game, and it wasn't even as good as the 4 straight we are talking about now. I am on record as one that was still holding some doubt even including that game, especially after some clunkers during this year's regular season. But I also have been consistently critical of Cameron and always knew he was holding us/Joe back, but was never sure by how much, or even if it was for Joe's own good (i.e. if Joe were forced or allowed to take more risks to get more production that he would make more mistakes).

    But the night and day switch between pre-Cameron and post-Cameron and considering the competition and considering there are now 4 times as many such last-year-NE games (and even better than that game), I think removes all reasonable doubt. And that isn't to say that Joe won't throw in some clunkers, or even that there are not some aspects of his game that still need some improvement to get to the next (last) level (performance when being rushed, presnap reads, etc), or even that I would choose him in a one-season campaign over Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Peyton (though I probably would over a couple of those guys), it is just to say that we have actually seen a fairly prolonged stretch where he has performed at the highest level, a level that you would be hard-pressed to find using multiple, multiple years of 1st round draft picks trying.

    And I think his age also needs to be factored in. As good as Brees has been statistically and winning a SB, he is old(er). His contract pays him until he is 39. In other words, I think a younger Drew Brees gets even more money (maybe I am wrong), as his performance when he is 38 cannot necessarily be counted on to be his performance when he is 34 (now). This wouldn't be the case with Flacco.

    Anyway, I agree that such a huge contract can be very damaging if it doesn't work out, and I agree it shouldn't be entered into lightly, but I just don't see how we could rationalize not taking the risk associated with it.
    All good points, no doubt. As I said, I'm kind of amusing myself for even arguing this point - not that I'm really "arguing" - I just think that $20M/year theshold is reversed for the best of the best, and as well as Joe is playing, I'm just not ready to go all the way there just yet.

    But, perhaps, in 2 weeks I will be!
    Last edited by B-more Ravor; 01-22-2013 at 11:47 AM.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  6. #114

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Read my lips: If the Ravens win the Super Bowl and Joe Flacco is the Super Bowl MVP, Steve Bisciotti will roll out the blank check.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    No, the contract he signed in 2006 was not an "elite" contract - it included a lot of incentives that he earned. For the contract he got last year - an "elite" contract, for $20M/year - he had already been in New Orleans for 5 years (nothing to do with Cameron by then), with multiple Pro-Bowls (and deserved) and a SB victory.
    Right. I think where you're missing my point, is that Joe Flacco is a better and more accomplished quarterback at this point in time than Brees was at the same point in his career. And if Joe wins the Superbowl then there's no reason why he can't be in that discussion with Drew Brees.

    Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2




  8. #116
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    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Exactly, BY THEN. But before that contract he very much was not elite. (cough cough Cam Cameron cough cough).

    Flacco's entire body of work shows he should get close to that money. If the Ravens could afford to give Flacco $20M, he'd be worth it. Not being able to afford that is a whole separate issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    No, the contract he signed in 2006 was not an "elite" contract - it included a lot of incentives that he earned. For the contract he got last year - an "elite" contract, for $20M/year - he had already been in New Orleans for 5 years (nothing to do with Cameron by then), with multiple Pro-Bowls (and deserved) and a SB victory.
    The Ravens were always willing to pay Flacco a big contract, the question was how big of a contract. $17 million/year sounds about right. That would be a 5 yr/ $85 million deal or a 6 yr/ $102 million deal. At this point, it looks like Flacco is well on his way to deserving such a deal. Regarding Cam Cameron, the Ravens are still running Cam's system. Caldwell is incorporating more shotgun formations, but I haven't noticed too many bunch formations or rubs or other wrinkles to get receivers open. I think the biggest change that has been largely responsible for this turnaround is the improved play of the OL, since the Ravens went to the OL of McKinnie, KO, Birk, Yanda, and Oher. Flacco has had more time to throw the ball over the past month then he did earlier in the season. The receivers have more time to get open, and Flacco has time to survey the field. So, McKinnie isn't "hot garbage" after all is he...




  9. #117

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    The "problem" is that after we win the SB, Flacco will be in a very similar situation to when Eli signed for 5 years and $90M, only with a few years into the future(read inflation). Despite the fact that the cap has been more or less flat, salaries have still inflated. So 5/100 isn't that outrageous. I'm now "hoping" 6/100 does it, but not super confident.




  10. #118
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    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    The "problem" is that after we win the SB, Flacco will be in a very similar situation to when Eli signed for 5 years and $90M, only with a few years into the future(read inflation). Despite the fact that the cap has been more or less flat, salaries have still inflated. So 5/100 isn't that outrageous. I'm now "hoping" 6/100 does it, but not super confident.
    My original prediction was 6 yr 100 mil, but I think it will end up being higher than that. Maybe 6 yr 110 mil.




  11. #119

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    The Ravens made their bed...now time to sleep in it.

    I think it was prudent to wait before signing Flacco to a long-term deal...even if a deal 2 years ago would have been for "only" for 5 years / $75M...you are basically locking in your starting QB. While hindsight now shows doing the deal 2 years ago would have been much cheaper, foresight shows: Matt Schaub.

    So they waited to be sure (or to be as sure as they could)...now it is time to cut the check.




  12. #120

    Re: Joe Flacco's price has certainly gone up.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    The "problem" is that after we win the SB, Flacco will be in a very similar situation to when Eli signed for 5 years and $90M, only with a few years into the future(read inflation). Despite the fact that the cap has been more or less flat, salaries have still inflated. So 5/100 isn't that outrageous. I'm now "hoping" 6/100 does it, but not super confident.
    Manning's deal was 7 years/$107M -

    8/13/2009: Signed a seven-year, $106.9 million contract. The deal contains $35 million guaranteed, including a $13 million signing bonus, a second-year option bonus of $12.5 million, and all but $1 million of Manning's 2009-2011 base salaries. Another $500,000 is available in 2010-2015 via annual workout bonuses. 2013: $13 million, 2014: $15.15 million, 2015: $17 million, 2016: Free Agent
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




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