Ravens Money Grab - Shafts PSL Holders

**wickedsolo** · 01-22-2013, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

Exactly. Once you factor in tickets for the owner and upper level staff, the FO, the coaches, players and corporate sponsors, there's likely very little left..........then, the Suite holders, then the club level, then the "regular" PSL holders.

There's simply not that many to go around.

I mean, that's why it is a lottery. Not everyone wins it.

Does everyone who purchases a mega millions jackpot whatever lottery ticket win some money? Nope.

**OC Bob** · 01-22-2013, 02:19 PM

I am fine with the Suite Holders getting 8-tickets. I am also okay with Club Level having a better shot at winning the Super Bowl lottery. The big bucks these people spend help put a better product on the field allowing us to reach the Super Bowl plus, their expensive seats allow the rest of the stadium seats to be "a little" more reasonably priced.

With such a limited pool left for "regular PSL holders", I do believe it would be more fair if people who have won the lottery before were not included in this lottery. I have heard of at least one "regular PSL holder" winning both lotteries now for the Ravens Super Bowl trips. I certainly don't blame them for going to both, I certainly would if I had won both times. However, it would be nice if the Ravens made previous lottery winners ineligible to win in the future until all PSL holders have had an opportunity to get Super Bowl tickets.

**NCRAVEN** · 01-22-2013, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I mean, that's why it is a lottery. Not everyone wins it.

Does everyone who purchases a mega millions jackpot whatever lottery ticket win some money? Nope.

What!?!? You mean if I play the lottery, I won't win!?!?!? WTF!!!

**JohnBKistler** · 01-22-2013, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by ManfredHanover

A list of lottery winners by Section would be nice to see.

We are going round-and-round here, but I have to ask: To what purpose?

You will see just about 1:1 for club seat holders...and then other winners sprinkled in sections here and there. From the last Super Bowl, I personally know a friend that had nose-bleed seats and he won the lottery...and there have been several others on these message board that have won this time.

To me, the bigger "shaft" would be if the Ravens just paid lip service to the lottery and were giving all the tickets away to suite holders. They are not...there just aren't that many tickets available.

I am disappointed I didn't win the lottery, too...but I guess I wasn't really expecting to win it either.

**Haloti92** · 01-22-2013, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I mean, that's why it is a lottery. Not everyone wins it.

Does everyone who purchases a mega millions jackpot whatever lottery ticket win some money? Nope.

Right, but certainly the Ravens know how many tickets they gave away to the PSL holders? So why don't we know the number. Why not just provide the info? You said probably 5,000. What if you found out it was 500?

I personally think the Ravens can do whatever they want with the tickets, but I also think someone has a right to criticize the team if it appears they are overly-favoring less loyal, more-able-to-afford-secondary-market-prices, cronies in terms of ticket allocation. And I am not sure they are, but without the numbers or lottery mechanics (club seats get 2 ping pong balls to regular seats 1 ping pong ball? or 10 to 1? etc) it is impossible to rule it out.

**JohnBKistler** · 01-22-2013, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by OC Bob

With such a limited pool left for "regular PSL holders", I do believe it would be more fair if people who have won the lottery before were not included in this lottery. I have heard of at least one "regular PSL holder" winning both lotteries now for the Ravens Super Bowl trips. I certainly don't blame them for going to both, I certainly would if I had won both times. However, it would be nice if the Ravens made previous lottery winners ineligible to win in the future until all PSL holders have had an opportunity to get Super Bowl tickets.

I think that is fair, but I am not sure exactly how easy that would be to enforce...not saying it's not doable, but wonder how easy, since you need to do the lottery right away after the Championship game to give people enough time to make travel arrangements.

The other thing I think they should do is make the tickets non-transferable (I believe the 49ers do this). So if you win the lottery, great, you can go...but if you don't want to use the tickets, they should go back into the pool for other PSL holders.

I guess the Ravens are just going to have to keep going to Super Bowls....somebody, start writing letters!

**shine** · 01-22-2013, 03:28 PM

It would also help the average fan if they found a way to limit the brokers who own a vast amount of seats to only have 5 entries. Or limit (or heavily tax) brokers for having seats in general.

I did not win. I only have a pair of LL PSLs. Would have scraped together cash to go if I was selected. It's hurts to know that some dude in Virginia that owns 25 seats or so for profit, probably got the tixs just to re-sell. I hope that his golden ticket went to spam.

**wickedsolo** · 01-22-2013, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

Right, but certainly the Ravens know how many tickets they gave away to the PSL holders? So why don't we know the number. Why not just provide the info? You said probably 5,000. What if you found out it was 500?

I personally think the Ravens can do whatever they want with the tickets, but I also think someone has a right to criticize the team if it appears they are overly-favoring less loyal, more-able-to-afford-secondary-market-prices, cronies in terms of ticket allocation. And I am not sure they are, but without the numbers or lottery mechanics (club seats get 2 ping pong balls to regular seats 1 ping pong ball? or 10 to 1? etc) it is impossible to rule it out.

Then I would say that those 500 were lucky and I hoped they had a good time! What else can I say?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the PSL agreement says that as an added bonus they'll be added to a lottery drawing for Super Bowl tix if the situation arises...nothing says that the Ravens HAVE to do that. It is a bonus for being a PSL. And frankly, considering that tickets are going for nearly $3,000 a pop right now, I'd gladly pay the face value of $850 if given the chance.

Maybe it isn't even a set number? Maybe after the players, front office, coaches, etc all put in how many they want/need, the leftovers get sent out via lottery.

The Superdome seats roughly 72,000 people. Take away 26,000 for each team and you have 46,000 tickets that the public can go buy. I don't know how other teams operate, I would assume it is the same way, but the fact that the Ravens are willing to give a percentage of their tickets to PSL owners is a really nice gesture IMO.

**Ravenboy2003** · 01-22-2013, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

We are going round-and-round here, but I have to ask: To what purpose?

You will see just about 1:1 for club seat holders...and then other winners sprinkled in sections here and there. From the last Super Bowl, I personally know a friend that had nose-bleed seats and he won the lottery...and there have been several others on these message board that have won this time.

To me, the bigger "shaft" would be if the Ravens just paid lip service to the lottery and were giving all the tickets away to suite holders. They are not...there just aren't that many tickets available.

I am disappointed I didn't win the lottery, too...but I guess I wasn't really expecting to win it either.

The Ravens allotment was 12,500 seats. You can immediately take almost 2000 off that number thanks to a 1:1 ration for SUITE holders (not clubs). 119 suites x 15 tickets per suite.

Now, the stadium has almost 9,000 club seats and over 3000 club seat PSL holders). The lottery is weighted heavily in the club level PSL holders favor. 1:2 is my guess. So that right there knocks out another 3000 SB tickets.. Now your're down to about 8000 seats for "the rest of us". outside of club level you still have over 20,000 PSL holders. No, I didn't stutter. If the Ravens awarded everyone left with SB tickets, they would need almost 50,000 tickets. But you see there are only 8,000 left.. So the Ravens do one more lottery at a 1:5 ratio..

I don't know if my numbers are exact but they are very close and I do know people who work for the team and this is pretty much how it has been explained to me.

**Mista T** · 01-22-2013, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

You will see just about 1:1 for club seat holders...

I can assure you that there is no 1:1 ratio for club seat PSL accounts.

===========================================================================================================

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

The Superdome seats roughly 72,000 people. Take away 26,000 for each team and you have 46,000 tickets that the public can go buy. I don't know how other teams operate, I would assume it is the same way, but the fact that the Ravens are willing to give a percentage of their tickets to PSL owners is a really nice gesture IMO.

It will never happen, but I would like to see the Super Bowl rotated between solely 100,000+ seat stadiums - domed or Sunbelt please. Right now that would be Dallas and the Rose Bowl. With the increased ticket capacity going to the fans of the participating teams. An extra 15,000+ seats available to our fans would be great.

**Haloti92** · 01-22-2013, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Then I would say that those 500 were lucky and I hoped they had a good time! What else can I say?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the PSL agreement says that as an added bonus they'll be added to a lottery drawing for Super Bowl tix if the situation arises...nothing says that the Ravens HAVE to do that. It is a bonus for being a PSL. And frankly, considering that tickets are going for nearly $3,000 a pop right now, I'd gladly pay the face value of $850 if given the chance.

Maybe it isn't even a set number? Maybe after the players, front office, coaches, etc all put in how many they want/need, the leftovers get sent out via lottery.

The Superdome seats roughly 72,000 people. Take away 26,000 for each team and you have 46,000 tickets that the public can go buy. I don't know how other teams operate, I would assume it is the same way, but the fact that the Ravens are willing to give a percentage of their tickets to PSL owners is a really nice gesture IMO.

Well, you could say the team looked out more for their moneyed bigwigs than the average fan. And by 'you,' I mean anyone, or Manfred Hanover in this instance.

As I said, I agree, the team can do whatever it wants, including offering no PSL SB lottery (as far as I know there are no league rules that cover this nor do I think there should be), but that doesn't mean every decision is as likely as the next to be criticized.

And you are right about it probably not being a set number. I have no doubt that if connected people wanted 5,000 seats vs. 4,000, they would get them and everything else adjusted/lowered accordingly. Which again, I think, is Manfred's point about transparency in the process and final numbers.

In terms of nice gestures, though, each seat can only be bought once for face value. So after that the secondary market determines the price. So, if we assume the team decided not to have any lottery, where would all these 'extra' tickets go? To slightly less-connected cronies? To the secondary market for team profit? To charity? Etc. And obviously, it is a gesture but it is also a business decision, in that the more perks that come with PSL/club/suite ownership the more demand there is for them, and the more financially secure the team is, so it isn't mere charity to the fans.

Bottomline for me, is that I absolutely agree with everything you say, but I also understand why Manfred wants to know the details of the process so he is better able to gauge exactly how generous the 'gesture' or 'perk' actually is. I also understand why the Ravens would not want (and clearly they are not obligated) to get into the details, because I expect people would recognize that the 1%ers (lol) get taken care of at the expense of the 99%ers (which I have no problem with, check the Politics forum for proof, but obviously some people do/would).

**Murphey37** · 01-22-2013, 06:43 PM

I enjoyed the thought that I had a chance to get the tickets for face value. Can't afford the $2k+ aftermarket price along with the long trip for me and the wife. Better then having no chance at all.

**ManfredHanover** · 01-22-2013, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenboy2003

The Ravens allotment was 12,500 seats. You can immediately take almost 2000 off that number thanks to a 1:1 ration for SUITE holders (not clubs). 119 suites x 15 tickets per suite.

Now, the stadium has almost 9,000 club seats and over 3000 club seat PSL holders). The lottery is weighted heavily in the club level PSL holders favor. 1:2 is my guess. So that right there knocks out another 3000 SB tickets.. Now your're down to about 8000 seats for "the rest of us". outside of club level you still have over 20,000 PSL holders. No, I didn't stutter. If the Ravens awarded everyone left with SB tickets, they would need almost 50,000 tickets. But you see there are only 8,000 left.. So the Ravens do one more lottery at a 1:5 ratio..

I don't know if my numbers are exact but they are very close and I do know people who work for the team and this is pretty much how it has been explained to me.

Then let them publish the detailed information and data about what happened to the tickets, so there are no conspiracy theories. Remember, the concern I raised is when I got the e-mail about not winning the lottery, I was directed to a RAVENS PARTNER who on their website had TICKET ONLY PACKAGES. Where did they get these tickets? I couldn't sleep because I was so excited about the Ravens winning and was up when the e-mail came in. When I went to the website that night there was literally THOUSANDS of tickets available for $2,100+++.

**ManfredHanover** · 01-22-2013, 07:34 PM

So for all of those doubters out there. Answer this question. The OFFICIAL Ticket exchange service for the NFL is the NFL Ticket Exchange run by Ticketmaster. If the tickets on the PRIME SPORT website did not come from the Ravens allotment, then WHY would the NFL give the tickets to PRIME SPORT to sell rather than the OFFICIAL ticket exchange for the NFL? Inquiring minds want to know!

**Beau Petard** · 01-22-2013, 07:43 PM

I hate to sound like an old fart (okay, maybe I don't!), but I'll speak my piece.

Back when I was a Ute (50's and 60's), and a BALTIMORE Colts fan, there seemed to be a different sense of "fanship" and connection to one's home team. I've always commented that I felt like I "lost my innocence" when Irsay took over the team, shat on the community and moved the franchise. At that point, and I probably couldn;t articulate my feelings for many more years, the wonder, awe, youthful joy, whatever, went out of the whole "I'm a fan of the BALTIMORE Colts" thing. It became a business, not a sport.

Conclusion: I feel your pain in not being able to strongly compete for SB tix, but that's business.

**AirFlacco** · 01-22-2013, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Would you take someone from here who was also a member of the Baltimore Marching Ravens band?

HEY T - Wasn't there a poster or two from the old RN 2, now Scout, that won the lottery tics? There weren't many, just
like only 1 poster on this thread.

One pal got face value tics from someone in the media he knew and a pal from Nest 1 bought 2 tics from E-Bay for
a grand each. He got sick down there the night before the game partying and was sick as a dog. He was in the stadium's
clinic before the game. HIs dad was outside and a Giants fan offered him $2500 for each tic. He though hard and long
but said no. His son came out and was OK and then went to the game but he could have made $5,000.

A lot of guys like you went down just for the parties all week. WJZ had a big party hosted by Denise Koch and Marty.

Fan Man of Nest 1 went w/o any tics. He was just walking along in his Ravens costume and a TV station saw him and
asked if he wanted to go on a quiz show. The winner got two free tics. He jumped at it. He went vs some dumb chick
who knew nothing about football but Fan Man answered all the questions and won free tics but the rest of you
guys weren't so lucky. I couldnt stand being that close to the game and not being able to go in.

My cousin lives in Tampa and got me a job pushing carts for Aerosmith during the half time show. I would have been on
the field by the stage and on the sideline before the half but got pneumonia a few days before the game and couldn't
go.

**shine** · 01-22-2013, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by ManfredHanover

So for all of those doubters out there. Answer this question. The OFFICIAL Ticket exchange service for the NFL is the NFL Ticket Exchange run by Ticketmaster. If the tickets on the PRIME SPORT website did not come from the Ravens allotment, then WHY would the NFL give the tickets to PRIME SPORT to sell rather than the OFFICIAL ticket exchange for the NFL? Inquiring minds want to know!

I see your point.
But I think your issue is with the NFL in general not with the Ravens administration.
Very true, last week there were tons of tickets for sale on stubhub at $2000 - without the teams selected. Why sell to Primetime or brokers when the average joe really wants to go ...

**pslholder96** · 01-22-2013, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by ManfredHanover

So for all of those doubters out there. Answer this question. The OFFICIAL Ticket exchange service for the NFL is the NFL Ticket Exchange run by Ticketmaster. If the tickets on the PRIME SPORT website did not come from the Ravens allotment, then WHY would the NFL give the tickets to PRIME SPORT to sell rather than the OFFICIAL ticket exchange for the NFL? Inquiring minds want to know!

Grapes must be really sour for you. Sorry but while your questions are valid your frustration is being vented in the wrong direction.

**HoustonRaven** · 01-22-2013, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by ManfredHanover

So for all of those doubters out there. Answer this question. The OFFICIAL Ticket exchange service for the NFL is the NFL Ticket Exchange run by Ticketmaster. If the tickets on the PRIME SPORT website did not come from the Ravens allotment, then WHY would the NFL give the tickets to PRIME SPORT to sell rather than the OFFICIAL ticket exchange for the NFL? Inquiring minds want to know!

The answer is simple and obvious -- outsourcing.

Yes, Ticketmaster is the entity that runs the NFL Ticket Exchange but they farm out some stuff just like almost every other company on the planet.

When I bought my tickets this year, I went through the Ticket Exchange but when I got my confirmation email, it came from Tickets Now. I called the next morning and was told, very frankly, that Ticketmaster will hire other ticket brokers to sell big ticket items. I ran into this same thing when I bought tickets for U2 back in 2009 for a show in Ireland.

So if you're going to be mad, be mad at the NFL. They got into the secondary market business and this is the result. They are basically reselling their own tickets at the secondary market prices.

**Maelstrom** · 01-22-2013, 10:13 PM

I feel zero empathy for the whiny OP... Do you believe men walked on the moon, or are you one of those people who see conspiracies everywhere?

Great discussion about how tickets are parsed out. Very enlightening. Thank you to those who have offered insight.

ManfredMunchausen, you are attempting to create a story where none exists. Quit your bitchin'.