Ravens Money Grab - Shafts PSL Holders

**Beau Petard** · 01-24-2013, 09:09 AM

Manfred--
I'll offer Haloti's answer b as well, and I can understand your frustration with the challenges of trying to win tickets through the Ravens lottery.

But a quick confession - I pissed and moaned to a group of 5 friends in 1995/1996 when we got together to grab 6 Ravens PSLs together in order to share amongst ourselves (individual schedules, health of one of the guys, etc.) I expressed why I was pissed off about the idea that I had to subsidize a situation where there was more money than the owners and league and players and agents and...knew what to do with!

One of the group of friends was kind enough to put things into perspective for me. We were ahead of many and "in line" to get our PSLs, but I was really pissed about (IIRC) the $2500 required for a nosebleed seat just for the opportunity to then turn around and shell out ANOTHER (again, IIRC) approx $600 a season for the tickets to that seat. He basically said that if I was not happy and didn't wish to participate, there were a shitload of folks in line behind me who were ready to oblige my discontent, and say,

"No problem, Beau, would you mind moving aside out of queue and let us move forward so WE can get the PSLs? Thanking you in advance!"

Not a completely similar issue to your desire for transperancy, but the bottom line is that the Ravens and the NFL are no longer a community based sport that transcends the relationship that fans and teams may have had before the 1970's - the bottom line is $$$.

p.s.
I ended up purchasing my PSL

, then purchased another from the wife of one of our group when he passed (she wasn't really interested in keeping it), then sold my two to one of our resident posters (who can expose himself if he wishes!

) and subsequently went in with a friend for 4 Club levels when I realized my petard enjoyed climate control! My friend then purchased my two PSLs when SWMBO and I moved to NC, but I'll always be a Ravens fan.

**ManfredHanover** · 01-24-2013, 10:52 AM

I just want for the record to say, that this AM I called PRIME SPORTs. I asked questions about the Super Bowl tickets.

i said that I heard that when the Ravens were in the Superbowl in 2001 that some people who were promised tickets by travel/ticket brokers ended up without tickets.

So I asked where did you get the tickets from. The salespersons response. "DIRECTLY FROM THE RAVENS!"

Last post on the subject, because it proves my original point. Thanks for all the comments!

**pslholder96** · 01-24-2013, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by ManfredHanover

I just want for the record to say, that this AM I called PRIME SPORTs. I asked questions about the Super Bowl tickets.

i said that I heard that when the Ravens were in the Superbowl in 2001 that some people who were promised tickets by travel/ticket brokers ended up without tickets.

So I asked where did you get the tickets from. The salespersons response. "DIRECTLY FROM THE RAVENS!"

Last post on the subject, because it proves my original point. Thanks for all the comments!

LOL. Doesn't prove anything in my opinion. You ranted and kept moving the goalposts.

So does this mean you'll give up your PSLs now? Probably not.

**Haloti92** · 01-24-2013, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

LOL. Doesn't prove anything in my opinion. You ranted and kept moving the goalposts.

So does this mean you'll give up your PSLs now? Probably not.

I didn't see him move any goalposts. I saw him trying politely and repeatedly to explain what he was talking about to bunch of lying and defensive posters who were not interested in a real discussion.

The letter/opening post was certainly a rant, but his complaints haven't been answered by anyone here at all, despite the multiple rude claims to the contrary.

And your last question is entirely irrelevant and I am not sure why you posed it at all.

**Haloti92** · 01-24-2013, 12:26 PM

All along his gripe was that in less than 24 hours after the Ravens made the SB, the team was directing people to a Broker who was selling tickets at 3+ times face value. That seems too quick of a turn around for the tickets to have come from a secondary source. Whether or not they come from the League or the Ravens could be questioned, and apparently he said the broker admitted they came directly from the Ravens (maybe the broker was lying, maybe Manfred is lying, who knows, but I don't see any reason why either would lie, nor do I have any desire to try to find out the truth).

Combined with the fact that the Ravens do not release (from what I have seen) exactly how many tickets they lottery off to PSL holders, or how exactly they lottery off the tickets (Club is favored by how much over non-club), I can see how one could conclude that the team is not looking after their 'standard' fan.

Whether or not it is true, no one has been able to say. Whether or not it is damning, if true, can be debated. Whether or not the Ravens have a right to do this, no one can really debate (they do).

**pslholder96** · 01-24-2013, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

I didn't see him move any goalposts. I saw him trying politely and repeatedly to explain what he was talking about to bunch of lying and defensive posters who were not interested in a real discussion.

The letter/opening post was certainly a rant, but his complaints haven't been answered by anyone here at all, despite the multiple rude claims to the contrary.

And your last question is entirely irrelevant and I am not sure why you posed it at all.

I reread his original rant and all of his replies, He did move the goalposts. Sorry if my question directed at someone else offended you.

**BenK6** · 01-24-2013, 02:59 PM

Ticket brokers, including Prime Sport have tickets well before it is known who the two teams are playing. The Ravens can, at their discretion, select a broker that they know is legit to direct fans too who are looking for ways to purchase tickets if they were not selected in the lottery.

That's all there is to it. There is no need for more transparency, many people were selected in the lottery, most were not. Way of the world. The NFL is a business, so are the ticket brokers, this isn't anything new. Sending an email bitching to the owner is childish, somehow getting the complaint on the radio is childish and embarrassing to the rest of us fans.

**stevez51** · 01-24-2013, 03:03 PM

I understand his point that the Ravens should come forward if tickets were given to a broker to sell. If they did then a lot of explaining would need to be done. It would be nice to know the breakdown of the tickets. If it was weighted towards club seat holders, where was the consideration for long time season ticket holders?? Being a 17 yr holder was my chances any better than someone who purchased 2 yrs ago?? It really is moot on my part after knowing all the expense involved. Hope for back to back appearances because New York is a 4 hr drive.

**Greg** · 01-24-2013, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Haloti92

All along his gripe was that in less than 24 hours after the Ravens made the SB, the team was directing people to a Broker who was selling tickets at 3+ times face value. That seems too quick of a turn around for the tickets to have come from a secondary source.

Here is something you should know, these brokers sell tickets they do not have. Sure, they have some, but will continue to sell more than they have and go buy more as they sell.

I don't believe the Ravens have sold tickets to Prime Sports for them to resell. My guess is whomever answered the phone doesn't have a clue. If this were the truth I would tend to agree with you that it is a sham by the Ravens. But I doubt the veracity of the claim they get tickets direct from the Ravens. At least not the ones allocated by the NFL for fans of the team.

**Greg** · 01-24-2013, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by stevez51

I understand his point that the Ravens should come forward if tickets were given to a broker to sell. If they did then a lot of explaining would need to be done. It would be nice to know the breakdown of the tickets. If it was weighted towards club seat holders, where was the consideration for long time season ticket holders?? Being a 17 yr holder was my chances any better than someone who purchased 2 yrs ago?? It really is moot on my part after knowing all the expense involved. Hope for back to back appearances because New York is a 4 hr drive.

The length of PSL ownership has no bearing as far as I could tell.

Suites are guaranteed a number. Club holders have more chances in the lottery. It doesn't matter how long you have had them.

**camdenyard** · 01-24-2013, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

I don't believe the Ravens have sold tickets to Prime Sports for them to resell. My guess is whomever answered the phone doesn't have a clue. If this were the truth I would tend to agree with you that it is a sham by the Ravens. But I doubt the veracity of the claim they get tickets direct from the Ravens. At least not the ones allocated by the NFL for fans of the team.

At the end of the day, the Ravens are under no obligation (that I know of) to distribute their share directly to fans. But I do agree that they should not be selling them to brokers at a profit. That would be bad for an organization that usually does the "right thing".

Maybe the OP should call the NFL Offices and ask that question first, and then contact the Ravens PR staff.

**Haloti92** · 01-24-2013, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

Here is something you should know, these brokers sell tickets they do not have. Sure, they have some, but will continue to sell more than they have and go buy more as they sell.

I don't believe the Ravens have sold tickets to Prime Sports for them to resell. My guess is whomever answered the phone doesn't have a clue. If this were the truth I would tend to agree with you that it is a sham by the Ravens. But I doubt the veracity of the claim they get tickets direct from the Ravens. At least not the ones allocated by the NFL for fans of the team.

Interesting. How do they sell specific seat assignments before they have the ticket? How could they possibly reasonably count on eventually getting the exact seat they need to provide to someone who already bought it from them? I don't doubt these guys play fast and loose, I am just trying to understand the process.
EDIT: Looks like they only get as specific as the row; I suppose that could be doable, though still risky

And yes, the guy on the phone's claim cannot be fully trusted, but I guess I am trying to see the motivation to lie. Then again, saying "they are directly from the Ravens" could be seen as a selling point I suppose.

I personally couldn't care less if the Ravens did try to cash in on the extra seat allocations due to us making the game, but I can see how some would care. And of course the Ravens could simply provide the information (how many tickets lotteried, how much club PSLs are advantaged), but that might create as many complaints as it solves.

**Haloti92** · 01-24-2013, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

I reread his original rant and all of his replies, He did move the goalposts. Sorry if my question directed at someone else offended you.

It didn't offend me at all. It was irrelevant, and I pointed that out. I still have no idea why anyone would ask that question considering the conversation.

As for goalposts. Nope, no movement at all. Explaining yourself is not moving the goalposts. The original goalpost remains, right where it always has been. And as for people lying about his questions being answered. Check. As for rude defensive pile-ons that kept missing the point. Check.

**Maelstrom** · 01-24-2013, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

I don't believe the Ravens have sold tickets to Prime Sports for them to resell. My guess is whomever answered the phone doesn't have a clue.

The person who answered the phone, after talking to ManfredMunchhausen for 45 minutes, was tired and wanted to get him off the phone since he was clearly not going to buy tickets, and told him what he wanted to hear - that the Ravens gave them the tickets. There is the smoking gun! There is the truth! What a load of bullshit!

Haloti92, Manfred is getting the type of response he deserves. His tone and demeanor throughout this temper tantrum is bitter, whiny and immature. You can defend him and rag me if you want, but I'll call it like I see it with no regrets.

Again, sell your damn PSLs, Manfred, if you are so upset. Prime Sports gets their tickets from sources other than the Ravens.

**Haloti92** · 01-24-2013, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maelstrom

The person who answered the phone, after talking to ManfredMunchhausen for 45 minutes, was tired and wanted to get him off the phone since he was clearly not going to buy tickets, and told him what he wanted to hear - that the Ravens gave them the tickets. There is the smoking gun! There is the truth! What a load of bullshit!

Haloti92, Manfred is getting the type of response he deserves. His tone and demeanor throughout this temper tantrum is bitter, whiny and immature. You can defend him and rag me if you want, but I'll call it like I see it with no regrets.

Again, sell your damn PSLs, Manfred, if you are so upset. Prime Sports gets their tickets from sources other than the Ravens.

Everyone is calling it like they see it. The issue is whether one needs to blatantly lie while calling it like they see it (like claiming his questions have been answered) or whether one needs to be an asshole while calling it like they see it (like questioning people's support of the team for no reason whatsoever).

And as of yet, I have nothing other than random people's equally uninformed opinions as to where these brokers got their tickets so soon after the teams were decided. Of course some of people like to state their opinion as fact, for what reason I have no idea, but it still doesn't count as a settled answer. This applies to how many tickets the Ravens lotteried and how much club PSL owners get favored in the process, as well