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  1. #49

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials



    It's probably a HOF prerequisite that you be at least top 5 at your position at some point in your career, and Flacco has yet to even clear that hurdle.




  2. #50

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Joe Namath, personality aside, put the AFC/AFL on the NFL map. First time an NFC team lost to the upstart counterpart. That really was his great contribution... Bc
    Sorry to nitpick, but that brings up another pet peeve of mine: People think that the Jets upset victory in 69 was what gave the AFL "legitimacy" and respect, which ultimately drove the two leagues to merge. Not true. The decision to merge the two leagues had been signed (and approved by Congress) over 2 years earlier. The actual merger was on schedule for 1970 regardless.

    The Jets victory changed nothing - it was just a great story.




  3. #51
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Sorry to nitpick, but that brings up another pet peeve of mine: People think that the Jets upset victory in 69 was what gave the AFL "legitimacy" and respect, which ultimately drove the two leagues to merge. Not true. The decision to merge the two leagues had been signed (and approved by Congress) over 2 years earlier. The actual merger was on schedule for 1970 regardless.

    The Jets victory changed nothing - it was just a great story.
    (1) I didn't post that his victory had anything to do with the merger.

    (2) IMO you're wrong that his victory changed nothing. I live in New York City and it was a huge explosion of football news at the time. It did make, in the minds of many fans, a leveling of the field. Before the Jets/Namath triumph, people didn't take the AFC side seriously... Bc




  4. #52
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Joe Namath, personality aside, put the AFC/AFL on the NFL map. First time an NFC team lost to the upstart counterpart. That really was his great contribution... Bc
    Yes, Namath predicted it would happen, but I am pretty sure the New York Jets and not the Joe Namaths beat the Baltimore Colts. Namath had a good, but not great game. This after a regular season in which he completed less than half of his passes and his TD-INT ratio was 15 to 17.

    Namath in the Hall is pure popularity.




  5. #53

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    IMO you're wrong that his victory changed nothing. I live in New York City and it was a huge explosion of football news at the time. It did make, in the minds of many fans, a leveling of the field. Before the Jets/Namath triumph, people didn't take the AFC side seriously... Bc
    I don't doubt that in NYC, where the Jets were competing for fans with the Giants, that it was probably a HUGE deal - for the Jets. I just don't believe that a bunch of people in Kansas City suddenly became fans of the Chiefs because of that game. And certainly not anyone who wouldn't have become fans after the Chiefs joined the NFL a year later anyway.

    It it true that AFL attendance the following season increased by about 3,000/game league-wide. But AFL attendance had been steadily increasing by pretty much that exact same amount each season since it's inception.




  6. #54

    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Yep. And you can add to that some other facts:
    In a 12+ year career, he guided his team to the playoffs exactly 2 times.
    He has a career record below .500 (62 wins, 63 losses, 4 ties).
    He had a career QB rating of 65.8, for cripes sakes. Yes, it was a very different era, but even compared to the legitimately great QBs of his own era (Stabler - 75.3, Griese - 77.1, Staubach - 83.4, Tarkenton - 80.4), a 65.8 just doesn't measure up.
    I don't get Stabler not being in the HOF, myself. I thought he was a better QB than Bradshaw.

    To drag this back to the OP, while it is premature to put Flacco in the HOF at this stage of his career, to this point what he's done is on track to make the HOF. IMO, anyway.




  7. #55
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by somedumbguy View Post
    I'll bite on this just because....

    No. His current trajectory is not going towards Canton.

    He needs to win a Superbowl, Then a second and maybe a third.

    Throwing for over 4000 yards with 28-30 TD's and less than 10 interceptions every year for the next 8 years would probably help.

    A season where he was NFL MVP or offensive player of the year would help.

    Making a pro bowl would be good. I realize it is just a popularity contest sometimes, but if people don't think you are one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in your conference multiple times in your career while you are playing, it is hard to convince people 5 years after you retire that you were one of the best of your generation.

    Playoff success is nice but for Canton, you need more and Joe does not have it..... yet. I love Joe and am happy he is my QB, but even with his success, his next 5 years need to be a LOT better than his last 5 before anybody could even start considering Canton. Nothing would make me happier if his carreer started to get closer towards a Canton trajectory, but right now, no.
    It seems pretty clear to me that if he wins the SB this season, 5 more seasons with either:
    1. 5 more playoff wins
    2. 1 SB win

    will put him in Canton.

    In the first case, he'd have 14 playoff wins and 1 SB. Look at the other players listed and tell me who has close to that resume and is not in? Plunkett is the only one on the list who won't make it. Warner will probably make it, and the others who aren't in already will all make it.

    In the 2nd case he'd have 2 SB wins and as few as 12 playoff wins. That's got it easily as well.

    Essentially, I'm telling you Joe Flacco could have all of the "foreground scenery" necessary as of 2/4/13. It won't matter if he doesn't make many (or perhaps any) Pro Bowls, he'll just need longevity and some additional, reasonable playoff success.
    Last edited by Filmstudy; 01-24-2013 at 05:54 PM.




  8. #56
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    If Ben Reothlisberger and Eli Manning are HOF worthy, then Flacco will be. IMO Flacco is the exact same type of player as both, not in the sense that they are similar types of players, all three are different. They aren't very flashy, but they are winners, and make the throws needed to win games, and can take over games when needed. I think in time Flacco will become even more polished than both anyway.

    I think there is a good chance.

    And how about Ray Rice? What are his chances? If he can stay healthy for the rest of his contract period, he is on pace to matching Marshall Faulks career numbers, and may even have a ring or two plus heaps of play off wins/appearances.




  9. #57
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    I was just looking into something... It's well documented that Flacco is carrying some pretty impressive accolades for the start of a career, like being at the top or near the top of the leaderboards in categories like most wins, most play-off wins, etc. in the first five years of a career.

    I was wondering how his 5-year span compares to other quarterbacks... and here's the kick: not just in their first 5 years, but over any 5-year span, period.

    The results are pretty darn remarkable.

    Flacco is currently sitting on a 5-year span with 62 wins. The only quarterbacks in NFL history to have a better 5-year span at any point in their careers are:

    Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, Brett Favre, and Terry Bradshaw. The only other quarterback to tie Flacco's 5-year span of 62 wins is Jim Kelly.

    That's a list of 5 hall of famers who've bettered Flacco's current mark, and 1 hall of famer who tied it. Nobody else ranks up there. Wow.

    He's also sitting on 8 post-season wins in a 5-year span. The only quarterbacks to beat that are:

    Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, and Brett Favre.

    Again, a list consisting exclusively of Hall of Famers. Flacco's 8 is tied, however, by Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, and Jim Plunkett. All of whom have 2 rings, have been in the hall of fame conversation, and may get in some day.

    If Flacco wins the Super Bowl this year, you can bump those numbers up to 63 wins and 9 post-season wins in a 5 year span, which puts him in a position where the only players EVER to match or better EITHER of those marks are:

    Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning.

    The only players to match or better BOTH marks are:

    Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, and Brett Favre.

    And the only players to BETTER BOTH marks:

    Tom Brady and Troy Aikman.




  10. #58
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    And another interesting fact I uncovered...

    There's been no shortage of talk about Flacco winning a post-season game in each of his first five years of his career. That's impressive. But what I had never heard before, until I researched it myself, was just how rare it is for a player to win a play-off game 5 seasons in a row at ANY point in their career...

    No quarterback has EVER won a play-off game in 6 consecutive seasons, and only 6 have won one in 5 consecutive seasons. Besides Flacco, they are:

    Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, and Ken Stabler.

    Pretty good company there, too. What's even more impressive is who IS NOT on that list... Steve Young? Joe Montana? Terry Bradshaw? Jim Kelly? Peyton Manning? Bart Starr? John Elway? The list goes on and on...

    By the way, Jim Kelly is the only other quarterback to ever win a play-off game in 4 straight years. Many noteworthy quarterbacks never won a play-off game in back-to-back years EVER. Ben Roethlisberger has only won a play-off game in back-to-back years one time, his rookie & sophomore seasons. Peyton Manning, also once: 2003 and 2004. Eli Manning? Never. Aaron Rodgers? Never. Drew Brees? Never.

    If Flacco can keep up even close to the kind of success he's had in first five years, over the course of at least another 5 years, we're looking at somebody really special here.




  11. #59
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    It seems pretty clear to me that if he wins the SB this season, 5 more seasons with either:
    1. 5 more playoff wins
    2. 1 SB win

    will put him in Canton.

    In the first case, he'd have 14 playoff wins and 1 SB. Look at the other players listed and tell me who has close to that resume and is not in? Plunkett is the only one on the list who won't make it. Warner will probably make it, and the others who aren't in already will all make it.

    In the 2nd case he'd have 2 SB wins and as few as 12 playoff wins. That's got it easily as well.

    Essentially, I'm telling you Joe Flacco could have all of the "foreground scenery" necessary as of 2/4/13. It won't matter if he doesn't make many (or perhaps any) Pro Bowls, he'll just need longevity and some additional, reasonable playoff success.
    Is there any hall of famer from the modern era who has never made a Pro Bowl?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  12. #60
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    Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Is there any hall of famer from the modern era who has never made a Pro Bowl?
    Who cares, the pro bowl is a joke and I would hope that the voters understand that. Andy Dalton made it last year and Andy Luck made it this year, neither one was more deserving than Flacco, so while those guys each have "Pro Bowler" next to their name, and Flacco does not, it really speaks volumes to how worthless that "accolade" really is.




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