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  1. #49
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    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    The same will be true if/when Flacco is tagged... the Ravens will be completely and totally locked out of free agency until after the tag is lifted, which may not happen until it's far too late to matter. That would mean not signing any of the UFAs that we're all coveting, including the Ravens' own guys.
    This is certainly the impression I have. According to Ravor, the last day a player can be tagged is March 4. So if no deal for Flacco is done before then, he will get the tag. And since there's no guarantee they'll be able to reach a deal and lift the tag before next season, it seems to me that really will put a big crimp in signing FA's not named Flacco.




  2. #50
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    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    If Flacco gets a long term deal, does the tag become viable for Kruger or Ellerbe? I'll confess to not knowing what their respective numbers, for their positions, woudl be.




  3. #51
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    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida View Post
    If Flacco gets a long term deal, does the tag become viable for Kruger or Ellerbe? I'll confess to not knowing what their respective numbers, for their positions, woudl be.
    Yeah the tag would be an option IF Flacco is signed before the deadline. Franchising Kruger or Ellerbe would cost in the region of $8M against the cap for 2013.




  4. #52

    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This is what I keep repeating over and over but people aren't getting it. We all know they got deals for those guys done, EVENTUALLY, but they took forever and a day despite not even approaching the size and scope of the deal Flacco's going to sign. What makes people think Flacco's deal will happen faster just because it's more urgent? This is an FO that usually takes negotiations down to the wire and sometimes beyond, as in Suggs' case.

    While those guys were under the tag the Ravens' ability to operate was severely constrained. The same will be true if/when Flacco is tagged... the Ravens will be completely and totally locked out of free agency until after the tag is lifted, which may not happen until it's far too late to matter. That would mean not signing any of the UFAs that we're all coveting, including the Ravens' own guys.
    This, obviously all of us are hopeful that the urgency of locking up the most important position as well as the Ravens impending free agents will be enough but if the Saints had Brees begging to the media to get the deal he got its fair to have skepticism in this negotiation. We'll just all have to keep our fingers crossed, if we could avoid the tag and get at least one of the 2 major FA's(Ellerbe and Kruger) and maybe Mckinnie at the right price before a draft where we'll have 11 picks i think that will be consider a major win. If we dont and we have to franchise Flacco then it turns into THANK GOD WE HAVE 11 PICKS lol. We'll need every one of them.




  5. #53

    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida View Post
    If Flacco gets a long term deal, does the tag become viable for Kruger or Ellerbe? I'll confess to not knowing what their respective numbers, for their positions, woudl be.
    If it's Kruger will undoubtedly go thru the whole DE vs OLB thing we did with Suggs again lol




  6. #54

    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Da Vida View Post
    If Flacco gets a long term deal, does the tag become viable for Kruger or Ellerbe? I'll confess to not knowing what their respective numbers, for their positions, woudl be.
    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah the tag would be an option IF Flacco is signed before the deadline. Franchising Kruger or Ellerbe would cost in the region of $8M against the cap for 2013.
    I don't see the tag as an option for either of those guys, frankly. Definitely not for Ellerbe.

    Ellerbe isn't worth 8m for one year, period. The guy's play has been good this year, but I think it's a stretch to say he's over all the concerns he had from 2009-2011. Is he motivated now just because he wants a big contract? Will he revert to bad habits one he cashes his bonus check? Even more importantly, he has yet to prove he can stay healthy. He's never played even close to a 16 game season and he's been banged up for good portions of the 9-13 games a year he HAS played.

    I'm not knocking the guy, again he's been probably our best and most consistent defender when on the field this year, but it is what it is. He also plays a devalued position that rarely sees big contracts. Even borderline-elite guys with good production like Curtis Lofton are only getting around 6m a year or so. David Hawthorne, who is a very comparable player to Ellerbe in terms of his career path and talent, got 5 years 19m from the Saints last season, and he had proven more at the time he signed that deal. I think that 5 year 19m deal is basically the ceiling for Ellerbe, so you certainly don't want to dump nearly half of that into a one year commitment.




  7. #55

    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Ellerbe wont be that expensive, MLB arent a premium position anymore. McClain had a good season last year and didnt cash in that much. Ravens will be fine cap wise, I expect Cary to be gone=CB's are in demand. Kruger stays IMO. Hope they bring back McKinnie-to me he is the most important. A few deals will be reworked to create room and a few players will be lost of course, especially with 11 draft picks.




  8. #56
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    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I don't see the tag as an option for either of those guys, frankly. Definitely not for Ellerbe.

    Ellerbe isn't worth 8m for one year, period. The guy's play has been good this year, but I think it's a stretch to say he's over all the concerns he had from 2009-2011. Is he motivated now just because he wants a big contract? Will he revert to bad habits one he cashes his bonus check? Even more importantly, he has yet to prove he can stay healthy. He's never played even close to a 16 game season and he's been banged up for good portions of the 9-13 games a year he HAS played.

    I'm not knocking the guy, again he's been probably our best and most consistent defender when on the field this year, but it is what it is. He also plays a devalued position that rarely sees big contracts. Even borderline-elite guys with good production like Curtis Lofton are only getting around 6m a year or so. David Hawthorne, who is a very comparable player to Ellerbe in terms of his career path and talent, got 5 years 19m from the Saints last season, and he had proven more at the time he signed that deal. I think that 5 year 19m deal is basically the ceiling for Ellerbe, so you certainly don't want to dump nearly half of that into a one year commitment.
    There is no way the Ravens franchise Ellerbe, I was just answering a question for somebody who wanted to know the franchise number for a linebacker which is around $8M. IF Flacco gets signed before the deadline, I have a feeling the Ravens are going to use the tag on Kruger using the linebacker price, of course Kruger (not saying he will do this) may go down the Suggs root and claim he's a DE, not a LB.




  9. #57
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    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    There is no way the Ravens franchise Ellerbe, I was just answering a question for somebody who wanted to know the franchise number for a linebacker which is around $8M. IF Flacco gets signed before the deadline, I have a feeling the Ravens are going to use the tag on Kruger using the linebacker price, of course Kruger (not saying he will do this) may go down the Suggs root and claim he's a DE, not a LB.
    Thanks for the info, and yes, I agree there is no way Ellerbe gets tagged at that price. Kruger...maybe (assuming, of course, they don't have to use it on Joe).




  10. #58
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    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    $8M for a LB franchise tag? I wish it were so low...

    Franchise tags on LBs this year is an estimated $9.45M. I seriously don't think the team will do that for Kruger. Slight chance for Ellerbe, very slight as that would be way overpaying him.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...-cap-near-121m




  11. #59

    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    I don't understand why people are so concerned with trying to keep Kruger. It's nto gonna happen. He's as good as gone. Cary Williams is likewise in that same boat, but people have understood that for a while.

    Similarly, I don't understand why EVERYONE is so convinced that Jacoby is gone. I think if we can get him to sign a 3 year extension or something similar that he can provide a good value for dollar going forward.

    Whiel I'd hate to see Leach go, I can see the reasoning why he might be let loose.

    McKinnie and Ellerbe should be attmepted to be retained, and neither should be terribly expensive.

    Our RFA's should by and large be let to wal... Reed, Harewood, Dickson... none of these provide a good value for dollar and can easily be replaceed by late round picks, of which we have Many(maybe even too many).




  12. #60

    Re: Salary Cap Notes: Corey Graham and Michael Oher cash in

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I don't understand why people are so concerned with trying to keep Kruger. It's nto gonna happen. He's as good as gone. Cary Williams is likewise in that same boat, but people have understood that for a while.

    Similarly, I don't understand why EVERYONE is so convinced that Jacoby is gone. I think if we can get him to sign a 3 year extension or something similar that he can provide a good value for dollar going forward.

    Whiel I'd hate to see Leach go, I can see the reasoning why he might be let loose.

    McKinnie and Ellerbe should be attmepted to be retained, and neither should be terribly expensive.

    Our RFA's should by and large be let to wal... Reed, Harewood, Dickson... none of these provide a good value for dollar and can easily be replaceed by late round picks, of which we have Many(maybe even too many).
    Great post! I agree with all of this pretty much, i think people are concerned with Kruger being retained because we've seen the struggles of our pass rush before he put it all together and without Suggs. Suggs starting to look more like himself eases the fears of his return to being a dominant pass rusher. I think Kruger being back is much more unlikely then likely at this point and it'll be important for Upshaw to continue to develop and mold his body to be able to play more snaps as well as find a sub package rusher in this draft to take Kruger's spot if thats the case.

    I envision Jacoby being restructured and extended, Oher extended to lessen his cap number, same for Boldin and Ellerbe and Mckinnie re-signed. I could see David Reed and Harewood non tendered but brought back at a cheaper rate, but they also could be allowed to walk as well.




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