Ongoing Flacco Contract Negotiations (Merged)

**Boulderraven** · 01-28-2013, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I said 6 years, 100 million throughout this season, and I still think that's the most likely number. If Joe's agent really wants the contract to say 6 years, 120 million, they can easily make that work by using funny numbers. I doubt he'll really get 20m a year.

Vick signed a 6 year 100m deal a few years ago... but when actually scrutinized the deal didn't work that way at all. It was all funny numbers. The real questions are going to come down to the bonuses/allocations and the amount of guaranteed money.

I think when all's said and done, Flacco's real contract will look something like 6 years, 100m, 50 guaranteed a large portion of which will be a big signing bonus. Add in some escalators and not-likely-to-be-earned incentives that could maybe bring it up to 120 or so... maybe add in an option year at the end to get to 7 years 120?

I think it will average out to be about 17-18 Million per season, when all said and done, just hope next years figure is cap freindly.

**chicagoravensfan** · 01-28-2013, 05:27 PM

To be honest, I don't really understand the desire for $20 million per year on Flacco's part. First of all, when you are talking net worth in the 8 figures, how much difference does a few more make? Wouldn't you be happier with a little less money on a better team. What if Bisciotti says "Sure Joe, we'll pay up. But tomorrow we are cutting Yanda and Boldin to get under the cap. We can't bring in any o-line help so Oher and Jah Reid will be your tackles next year." Wouldn't you rather have a little less money but have a better chance at multiple rings and not get sacked 50+ times a year?

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

**HoustonRaven** · 01-28-2013, 05:39 PM

It's a relative number and the fact we are hearing about it means the number was leaked.

He won't get $20 Million and I doubt he or is agent believe he will.

It's still all negotiation ploys, nothing more.

**s.r.genovese** · 01-28-2013, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Maybe this is finally the kick in the pants Ozzie needed to start actually getting extensions done before guy's walk years. Flacco has 100% of the leverage at this point and the FO has nobody to blame but themselves. They should have just gotten this done last August.

The way Webb was handled ought to be the benchmark for the future. They got his extension done quickly and quietly well before he got to his walk year, with neither side leaking to the media, etc... I'm not sure if that was possible in the Flacco negotiations, but you really don't get the sense that they ever sat down and said "we're not leaving until this gets done."

That was a mistake, and Ozzie doesn't make a whole ton of them, but I really don't like the way he's done extensions/re-signings at times.

Not every player wants to take an early deal. Look at Cary Williams. And for good reason a lot of times: Cary is going to make a lot more money than his offer last year. It's a risk to hold out for free agency but often it's worth it for a lot of players.

And on the other hand, signing guys early is great but it also sets you up for holdouts when players realize that they are out-playing their deals. For example is Flacco signed a deal last year that averaged him 10-13 mil a year and then he had the exact same season this year, wins a Super Bowl, and maybe another Super Bowl in a year; you really think he's going to be happy being EXTREMELY underpaid in relation to his prodcution? That's how holdouts occur. Sooner or later you have to pay a guy what he is worth.

It's a two way street really, it's not as easy as just saying "ok now I'm going to sign guys early."

**bmorecareful** · 01-28-2013, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

Not every player wants to take an early deal. Look at Cary Williams. And for good reason a lot of times: Cary is going to make a lot more money than his offer last year. It's a risk to hold out for free agency but often it's worth it for a lot of players.

And on the other hand, signing guys early is great but it also sets you up for holdouts when players realize that they are out-playing their deals. For example is Flacco signed a deal last year that averaged him 10-13 mil a year and then he had the exact same season this year, wins a Super Bowl, and maybe another Super Bowl in a year; you really think he's going to be happy being EXTREMELY underpaid in relation to his prodcution? That's how holdouts occur. Sooner or later you have to pay a guy what he is worth.

It's a two way street really, it's not as easy as just saying "ok now I'm going to sign guys early."

I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the Cary situation is comparable. They offered him a deal and told him take it or leave it; he left it. The same isn't true for Flacco... they were engaged in serious contract talks and there are indications that they were close to a deal at one point late last summer.

I'm not saying a deal definitely would have happened if they pushed harder... we don't know enough to conclude that. But Ozzie's MO over the last few years has been to not pursue extensions before a player's walk year. He broke that mold with Webb and I'd like to see that happen more often.

Don't buy the argument about holdouts. They're a bad idea--which is why they're pretty rare. They're especially rare for quarterbacks. And I don't think NFL GMs worry all that much about structuring contracts in anticipation of avoiding holdouts.

**lowrider** · 01-28-2013, 05:58 PM

Joe is gonna get paid. If he has a good SB (win or lose), he has even more bargaining power. IMO the FO is pretty much convinced that Joe is their franchise QB and are going to pay him. They are on the weak side of the bargaining table with this one.

**Terpsfan82** · 01-28-2013, 06:01 PM

I wonder if this is the same "source" that said Rice wanted AP type money last offseason.

**s.r.genovese** · 01-28-2013, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the Cary situation is comparable. They offered him a deal and told him take it or leave it; he left it. The same isn't true for Flacco... they were engaged in serious contract talks and there are indications that they were close to a deal at one point late last summer.

I'm not saying a deal definitely would have happened if they pushed harder... we don't know enough to conclude that. But Ozzie's MO over the last few years has been to not pursue extensions before a player's walk year. He broke that mold with Webb and I'd like to see that happen more often.

Don't buy the argument about holdouts. They're a bad idea--which is why they're pretty rare. They're especially rare for quarterbacks. And I don't think NFL GMs worry all that much about structuring contracts in anticipation of avoiding holdouts.

The Cary Williams situation is comparable to most position players, which, going forward are going to be the people that are up for early extensions. I don't think the Webb deal is any different; intrinsicly, I'm sure he had a "take it or leave it" deal as well. He just took his.

And the Webb deal is actually a good example of the dangers of early extensions. Now, we all hope and expect him to come back stronger than ever from his ACL injury. But what if he doesn't? What if his ACL injury hampers him in the same way the Foxworth or dozens of other players haven't recovered fully from ACL injuries? Injuries can happen any time but instead of waiting out his 4 year rookie contract, the Ravens may be faced with paying a guy 55 mil who can't play.

The fact is that sometimes 1-2 years is enough to determine if a guy is going to be a good player in the future but a lot of times it simply isn't.

And most times players are going to get more money on the open market so a lot of guys, like Cary Williams, are willing to wait it out and get the fat payday. Like I said, it's a two way street. That's why the players fought so hard in 1990 for free agency, it's why the sacrificed game checks in their player strike to get free agency. They want to get that big pay day and that only comes when you have competition for your services.

Has Ozzie's contract strategy led to the Ravens NOT being able to sign any of their key targets?

**chicagoravensfan** · 01-28-2013, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

The Cary Williams situation is comparable to most position players, which, going forward are going to be the people that are up for early extensions.

Has Ozzie's contract strategy led to the Ravens NOT being able to sign any of their key targets?

I was upset when Suggs, Lewis and Scott all hit the market in the same offseason, but that has payed off well with Scott's career going downhill of late. Other than that, the only move I really questioned was not locking up Yanda and Ngata during the uncapped year, though as we saw with the Cowboys and Redskins the FO may have had legit reasons to avoid that.

With Cary Williams I can see his argument for holding out for free agency -- he's a role player here but could be paid like a star elsewhere. With Flacco the team is going to be built around him -- why would you want $20 mill per year to go 5-11 in Jacksonville?

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

**CincyCat** · 01-28-2013, 06:35 PM

The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

(I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.

**Paintballguy** · 01-28-2013, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by CincyCat

The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

(I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.

Well you could see that if you trade us AJ green.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**lowrider** · 01-28-2013, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by CincyCat

The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

(I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.

I really don't think you guys need a QB. The one you have is gonna be a good one.

**CincyCat** · 01-28-2013, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Well you could see that if you trade us AJ green.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well played...well played

Originally Posted by lowrider

I really don't think you guys need a QB. The one you have is gonna be a good one.

It's nice to hear someone say that. Andy improved in every category this year but I just found out he was sacked 22 more times than his rookie season. People here are banging on him pretty hard.

**lowrider** · 01-28-2013, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by CincyCat

It's nice to hear someone say that. Andy improved in every category this year but I just found out he was sacked 22 more times than his rookie season. People here are banging on him pretty hard.

People are gonna bang on him. Just ask Joe. They've been banging on him for 5 years. He has gotten much more love since this playoff run has begun. I like the way AD handles himself. He's a fighter, you can tell that, and if he keeps fighting he will get his props.

**Mista T** · 01-28-2013, 06:54 PM

Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.

**lowrider** · 01-28-2013, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.

Really not a mistake. Had they did a deal like that it would have been renegotiated and then it would have cost even more, or we would have a pissed off QB who would be looking for the door.

**CincyCat** · 01-28-2013, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.

Not sure what ya' mean.

**chicagoravensfan** · 01-28-2013, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by lowrider

Really not a mistake. Had they did a deal like that it would have been renegotiated and then it would have cost even more, or we would have a pissed off QB who would be looking for the door.

I kind of wonder if Rodgers would ever hold out. He signed an extension really early (in '08 or '09) I think and is ridiculously underpaid.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

**bmorecareful** · 01-28-2013, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan

I kind of wonder if Rodgers would ever hold out. He signed an extension really early (in '08 or '09) I think and is ridiculously underpaid.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk

I don't think it's this kind of automatic situation where if a QB goes a year thinking he's "underpaid" he's going to automatically hold out. First of all, holdouts are rare. That's why there's really very rarely more than one of them a year, if that, and what player has actually gotten a new contract out of holding out?

Maurice Jones-Drew's holdout has cost him a huge amount of money. He basically wasted 2 years of his prime whining about his contract and now he's 2 years older at a position where age is kind of a problem. Vincent Jackson didn't get a new contract until San Diego made him play out his whole deal. And so on and so on...

Worst case scenario would probably be the QB skipping offseason workouts but even that would be stupid. QBs get paid because they win and post good stats, how can you do that when you're sitting at home on your hands while your teammates get better? It's just not something that makes any sense.

Does Joe strike you as the kind of guy who would sign a deal for 17 million a year, then hold out 2 years later because he decides he doesn't actually like the contract he signed? I just don't see that happening.

**wickedsolo** · 01-28-2013, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

If he wins a SB then he will have all the leverage, if he doesn't, then who knows.

He has all of the leverage anyway. Winning the SB would just be icing on the already tasty-delicious cake.

Also, Clayton is speculating what Flacco "MIGHT" ask for...The Ravens were already interested in giving him close to $16-17 mill per year (rumored number was $96 mill over 6 years). So, it isn't a stretch to think that Flacco could see that number rise.

I'd also like to remind everyone about the number of media pundits who claimed that Rice was looking to get an Adrian Peterson-esque deal.

The reality is the media knows jack squat until it happens.