Ongoing Flacco Contract Negotiations (Merged)

**Kyle Cactus** · 01-29-2013, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

It didn't require any "crystal ball". Joe has put up numbers that few if any QBs have put up in their first 5 years. And he did it with a micro managing OC, a sub par O-line, and less than elite WRs. So just stop it already, okay? If the Ravens didn't see what they had in Joe Flacco, then it's on them, not on Joe. If plain old fans could see what Joe brought to the table, it's incumbent upon a billion dollar franchise to see it too.

Yea, because a bunch of us on a message board are light years ahead of the people who assembled the only team in the NFL to win playoff games in each the last 5 seasons.

I'm not saying the Ravens are above criticism, but to say they "blew it" by not locking him up before this season ignores the fact that the did try to lock him up before this season.

Fact is, the Ravens did see a lot of value in Flacco, which is why they offered him the contract they did. They weren't comfortable with what Flacco and his agent were asking. I'm not going to dog them for that, even if it doesn't work out in their favor in the long run. Hindsight is 20/20.

It easy for people on a message board to say they called it or when they get it right, but then disappear when they get it wrong. I'm not referring to you specifically, just the general tendency of message boards.

The Ravens don't have that luxury. They make difficult decisions in a public setting, and they do a pretty good job of it. IMO, they made the right decision based on the info they had at the time. To be clear, that decision was to try to lock up Flacco in the off-season, but at a price they deemed fair based on the information they had at the time.

For the record, I've generally been a Flacco "defender" on these boards. I agree with you that he's been a good QB for us and showed potential to be more than that. I just disagree with your evaluation of the FO's decision making.

**wickedsolo** · 01-29-2013, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus

The Ravens don't have a crystal ball. At several points during the season, when Joe wasn't playing nearly as well as he is now, many board members were saying how that was actually working in our favor.

And it's not like the Ravens didn't try to work out a deal with Joe.

Plus, by several different accounts, the Ravens offered Flacco a 6 year $96 million deal. That's not peanuts.

**wickedsolo** · 01-29-2013, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Brady doesn't have a "subpar" offensive line. The Patriots line graded out as 2nd best according to PFF. Also, Peyton has the 4th best o-line, and the Saints have the 6th best o-line. The Packers were the only team out of the 4 you mentioned that had a subpar o-line. Aaron Rodgers will take a lot of sacks holding onto the ball though. He was sacked 51 times in the season.

I don't buy into the late round WR's either. Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers all have a lot of talent to throw to. Brady has Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. Peyton has Eric Decker, Demarius Thomas, and Tamme. Brees has Colston, Henderson, Moore and Graham. Finally, Rodgers has Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Greg Jennings, etc... It doesn't matter where a guy is drafted if they turn out to be good. Plus there are some 1st rounders on that list.

Not that I disagree with you all that much...but if you watched the Saints play this year, their OL was really not that great. They definitely were not the dominant unit that they were a few seasons ago.

Drew Brees makes their OL look a lot better than what they really are, IMO.

**Paintballguy** · 01-29-2013, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Plus, by several different accounts, the Ravens offered Flacco a 6 year $96 million deal. That's not peanuts.

Bisciotti himself said they had an offer on the table for Joe which would surprise a lot of people.

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Not that I disagree with you all that much...but if you watched the Saints play this year, their OL was really not that great. They definitely were not the dominant unit that they were a few seasons ago.

Drew Brees makes their OL look a lot better than what they really are, IMO.

I don't disagree with you. The other poster claimed they were subpar though which I don't think they were.

**RavensRule21215** · 01-29-2013, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus

Yea, because a bunch of us on a message board are light years ahead of the people who assembled the only team in the NFL to win playoff games in each the last 5 seasons.

I'm not saying the Ravens are above criticism, but to say they "blew it" by not locking him up before this season ignores the fact that the did try to lock him up before this season.

Fact is, the Ravens did see a lot of value in Flacco, which is why they offered him the contract they did. They weren't comfortable with what Flacco and his agent were asking. I'm not going to dog them for that, even if it doesn't work out in their favor in the long run. Hindsight is 20/20.

It easy for people on a message board to say they called it or when they get it right, but then disappear when they get it wrong. I'm not referring to you specifically, just the general tendency of message boards.

The Ravens don't have that luxury. They make difficult decisions in a public setting, and they do a pretty good job of it. IMO, they made the right decision based on the info they had at the time. To be clear, that decision was to try to lock up Flacco in the off-season, but at a price they deemed fair based on the information they had at the time.

For the record, I've generally been a Flacco "defender" on these boards. I agree with you that he's been a good QB for us and showed potential to be more than that. I just disagree with your evaluation of the FO's decision making.

N/P. We can agree to disagree.

**Kyle Cactus** · 01-29-2013, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

N/P. We can agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

**GOTA** · 01-29-2013, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

At the expense of the rest of their team?

I'm not so sure...

Getting Flacco under a new deal means they can franchise Kruger, Ed Reed, and/or Ellerbe.

Franchising Flacco means they'll likely have to overpay for those guys.

It's a negotiating tool like anything else. They just need to convince Joe that they are willing to do it, they don't actually have to use it. It's pretty much the only move the Ravens have. They can tag him and hope they get a last second deal just like they did with Rice last year.

We all know that the Ravens won't let Joe hit the market which means if there is no deal then Joe will be tagged.

**pslholder96** · 01-29-2013, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mista T

Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.

Not so sure of that. If anything their reputation as a first class organization, recent playoff success and hopefully a SB win would be attractive for guys wanting to play for a winner. Most highly quality veteran players may very well give a discount to come here.

**leachisabeast** · 01-29-2013, 08:05 AM

People make me laugh how they think the Ravens "failed" to lock Flacco up. 96 million over 5/6 years for Flacco in the offseason was more than fair for what Flacco was at the time.

**GOTA** · 01-29-2013, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

People make me laugh how they think the Ravens "failed" to lock Flacco up. 96 million over 5/6 years for Flacco in the offseason was more than fair for what Flacco was at the time.

You're right. Both sides were talking so it's not like the Ravens didn't try. The owner even made comments about wanting to sign Flacco to a deal. Flacco rolled the dice much like Cary Williams did and it worked in his favor.

**Justlovemybirds** · 01-29-2013, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

I always loved how we were simply kool aid drinking purple glasses wearing homers for saying Flacco had the potential to do exactly what he's doing, and they were just REALISTS who saw Joe for what he REALLY WAS. And if we just stopped BALLWASHING it would be SO OBVIOUS.

Welp, I always knew time would prove me right... Feels good man. Feels good.

Feels damn good

**pslholder96** · 01-29-2013, 08:22 AM

I'm going to wait for the end results to the game and assess how Joe plays. Then perhapss we have some clarity as to where his contract numbers start and end. I will say this. You absolutely have start at 6 yrs, 100M. At this point in the game Joe is not getting cheaper but potentially more expensive.

**RavensRule21215** · 01-29-2013, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

The man had an Offensive Coordinator whose job, correct me if I'm wrong, is to put his offensive talent in the best position to succeed through play calling. Yet, he felt that audibles were overrated and that he didn't want a QB who had to get into a rhythm? He actually said that foolishness out of his mouth?

I mean, look at the drastic change in the way the offense runs, since that man was fired:

Ray Rice in space and in motion more frequently.
Boldin in the slot more frequently
More frequent use of stacks
Using the 15 Yard In to combat the deep double cover over top of Torrey
McKinnie (Finally in shape) at LT. Oher at RT. Osemele at LG.
More freedom at the line of scrimmage for Flacco.
Ray Rice cutting to the middle of the field to keep the screen pass alive when the defense makes the initial read on it.
Joe Flacco's improvement on the move, both inside and outside of the pocket.

Damn near everything we've called for, for years.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

**RavensRule21215** · 01-29-2013, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

I'm going to wait for the end results to the game and assess how Joe plays. Then perhapss we have some clarity as to where his contract numbers start and end. I will say this. You absolutely have start at 6 yrs, 100M. At this point in the game Joe is not getting cheaper but potentially more expensive.

Newsflash: the results are already in. Some of us just see them more clearly, and quicker, than others. 5 straight post season appearances, no missed games, a flubbed catch away from back to back super bowl appearances, etc, etc, etc. But for some people, enough is never quite enough, is it?

**alienrace** · 01-29-2013, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

I always loved how we were simply kool aid drinking purple glasses wearing homers for saying Flacco had the potential to do exactly what he's doing, and they were just REALISTS who saw Joe for what he REALLY WAS. And if we just stopped BALLWASHING it would be SO OBVIOUS.

Welp, I always knew time would prove me right... Feels good man. Feels good.

I know I was accused of being a "hugger" a few times, even when I was just pointing out some obvious things about the offensive line and receivers.

Personally I felt I was always pretty objective about Joe, but that came off as being a purple glasses wearing homer to some.

Regardless of what happens sunday, the debate on Joe should be over. That in and of itself feels good. I know haters are still gonna hate(Skip), but Joe's body of work like some others have said, is amazing when you tally up the five years, and is likely to not be replicated any time soon.

I have been a fan of Flacco's since I heard Pat Kirwin and Ross Tucker talk about and interview him in March 2008, and was really hoping that they would draft him. I think it was Gota who mentioned drafting Flacco even before that, so when that interview came on I paid attention. There was just something about the guy that screamed future star. Then they talked about Matt Ryan and how his workouts were all scripted heavily, and he seemed robotic in his interviews, etc. I always trusted Kirwin and Tucker's points of view, so at that point I sighed a breath of relief when Atlanta traded up to get Ryan.

The one thing that stuck out in my mind in Kirwin/Tucker's discussion was that they said that Ryan would be the more "NFL ready" QB but that Flacco had the ability to much better than Ryan could hope to be. Seems they were right.

**Dirt1** · 01-29-2013, 09:34 AM

Flacco may want to sign a contract after the season and avoid the franchise tag. I think his value will be at its peak provided the Ravens win the Super Bowl and he plays well. It wasn't that long ago when all of the talk around Flacco's contract was how he was losing millions of dollars with his play during the Ravens losing streak. That was when the offensive line and defense were struggling (before McKinnie was inserted and KO and Oher were moved to their best positions). Now, everyone knows that the Ravens roster is going to look very different next year even if the Ravens franchise Flacco. They are going to be up against the cap, and a number of familiar players will be gone. If the Ravens offensive line and defense struggles next year, will we see the Flacco that we have seen in the playoffs, or the Flacco we saw when everyone was saying that he is losing millions of dollars with his play? I think the Ravens will make Flacco a very fair offer after the Super Bowl, and that he should take it. There is no guarantee that Flacco's price will continue to go up next year with a Ravens team that will be in a bit of a rebuilding mode.

**JAB1985** · 01-29-2013, 10:29 AM

His numbers have been nothing but "elite" since Caldwell took over (105.5 QBR 12TD 1 INT). The ability has always been there, he just hasnt been put in position to put up the stats that others do, nor was he asked to. Most people say the inconsistency is the biggest issue but hes been completely consistent since Caldwell took over. Assuming its true that they offered him that based on what they felt he was capable of before, how can they not project him higher now. 16 million is where theyre at, hes raised his negotiating point to 20. they meet at 17 or 18 a year thats not really beyond the realm of plausible. 96-108 million over 6 years, structured properly wont be much different and congrats to Flacco for saying hes a top 5 and going out and getting exactly that despite the haters.

**B-more Ravor** · 01-29-2013, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus

The Ravens don't have a crystal ball. At several points during the season, when Joe wasn't playing nearly as well as he is now, many board members were saying how that was actually working in our favor.

And it's not like the Ravens didn't try to work out a deal with Joe.

Exactly. Was anyone here really saying that they should have offered him $20M/year back in Sept?

They supposedly were offering him $15-16/year back in Sept. They apparently weren't that far off on the total value, but the guaranteed money wasn't to Flacco's liking. Given his inconsistencies to that point, I don't think anyone would have complained about the Ravens trying to be a bit protective of the guaranteed money (since that's what can come back an haunt you if the inconsistencies continue).

**leachisabeast** · 01-29-2013, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

Exactly. Was anyone here really saying that they should have offered him $20M/year back in Sept?

I can offer you a lot of names that actually did believe that around here lol...

I'm still not quite sure if Flacco is worth 20 mills a year. 16.5 a year is about fair IMO, he is pretty much in the same market as Roethlisberger and Eli IMO, looks like he sees him self even higher than that...

**Paintballguy** · 01-29-2013, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I can offer you a lot of names that actually did believe that around here lol...

I'm still not quite sure if Flacco is worth 20 mills a year. 16.5 a year is about fair IMO, he is pretty much in the same market as Roethlisberger and Eli IMO, looks like he sees him self even higher than that...

You can't look back at contracts from years ago. They are looking at contracts which just got signed and potential future contracts. A 36 year old Peyton coming off a major neck surgery got 5/96 mil. Why wouldn't Flacco ask for 20 mil? He's young, never missed a game and been on absolute fire once Cameron got fired. Flacco is a franchise QB that you build around.