Ongoing Flacco Contract Negotiations (Merged)

**RavensRule21215** · 02-06-2013, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by bt12483

And people are looking at the past too much. Most of this contract is what can he do in the future? He is entering his prime. His level of in-game intelligence will only increase. Brady and Manning and Brees weren't picking apart opposing defenses in the first 5 years of their career, such skill comes later on. This is where Joe should be heading as well. We all know he has the physical tools. He should only get better and better at reading and diagnosing opposing defenses.

I keep seeing the "inconsistency" argument too for why he doesn't deserve top $$, but no one mentioning he had Cam Cameron his entire career. We've seen what happens when Cam leaves a QB - they excel. The last part of this season Joe pretty much dominated the competition. If I were his agent, I would say "Did you see what this guy did once Cam left? The future is bright". And I would use that as why he is worth so and so $$ in the future with respect to this new contract.

(And I for one HAVE made the argument that the inconsistency was because of Cameron, not Joe And that Joe accomplished what he did DESPITE Cameron, and a definite lack of true elite talent around him.)

**JohnBKistler** · 02-06-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

You're missing the point. I'm talking about the prospect of building the team around Joe, not signing or not signing a single franchise caliber Raven. And part of the reason for that is exactly that they HAVE overpaid their blue chip players. As a result, they can't NOW do what needs to be done to really put a top tier cast around Joe. You've basically just made my point for me.

Maybe I did miss your point. Sorry.

I do think there is a reasonable middle ground that gets Flacco the pay-day he's earned, and gives the Ravens room to operate under the cap for the next 5 years. Now, if he gets hurt or totally regresses, the Ravens are screwed, but that is their risk, not Flacco's.

The Ravens asking for the home-team discount is possible...as is Flacco asking for all the money up-front, cap implications be damned. I don't see either as likely (i hope).

**RavensRule21215** · 02-06-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Well you gotta admit, you definitely came off as having some inside knowledge and understanding of what's going on with Joe.

Inside knowledge? Are you joking? All one has to do is look at the past 5 years. It doesn't take any inside knowledge or any crystal balls; just common sense and an awareness of what's happening on a football field.

**RavensRule21215** · 02-06-2013, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

Maybe I did miss your point. Sorry.

I do think there is a reasonable middle ground that gets Flacco the pay-day he's earned, and gives the Ravens room to operate under the cap for the next 5 years. Now, if he gets hurt or totally regresses, the Ravens are screwed, but that is their risk, not Flacco's.

The Ravens asking for the home-team discount is possible...as is Flacco asking for all the money up-front, cap implications be damned. I don't see either as likely (i hope).

And as others have already pointed out, Suggs didn't give any discount; Ngata didn't give any discount; why should Joe, huh?

**leachisabeast** · 02-06-2013, 10:51 AM

Don't pay much attention to RavensRule (Joe Linta) he puts Flacco before the team.

What GM WOULDN'T pay Suggs and Ngata at the time? They earned those contracts just as Flacco has earned the contract he's about to get, stop whining about re-signing elite players, we wouldn't have had this success without them.

I think Flacco deserves a top 3 deal, not sure about the highest paid QB ever, that's too much of a stretch.

**JStruds** · 02-06-2013, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by bt12483

You are paying him in part for what he has done and in part for what he is capable of doing.

No, he doesn't have the stats the other guys do, but a lot of those other guys don't even have 1,000 yard RBs. Hell I think I read a stat where the Packers haven't had a 100 yd rusher in like 40+ games. Flacco could easily throw for 4000+ yards and 30 TDs in a system designed for such production. And maybe we will morph into that somewhat. But right now we still choose a more balanced offense, and have some darn good RBs to utilize.

Barring injury to either Joe or the key parts of his OL, next season could be the one in which he racks up those big numbers - even with two very productive running backs. This guess is based on the dual assumption that Cam held him back, and that (at least this year) his OL pass protection was poor until Jah Reid got hurt.

**JohnBKistler** · 02-06-2013, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

And as others have already pointed out, Suggs didn't give any discount; Ngata didn't give any discount; why should Joe, huh?

There is guaranteed money...and then there is how it is structured to support a team's cap position (which allows them flexibility down the road, if needed).

Flacco and his agent are not going to give a discount on the former (nor should they) and I don't think the Ravens will have a problem cutting a check....but their should be (I hope) enough mutual interest to negotiate the latter.

**leachisabeast** · 02-06-2013, 10:55 AM

Suggs and Ngata weren't asking for over 20 million a year either rofl

Its going to be a huge huge challenge for the FO.

**NCRAVEN** · 02-06-2013, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Inside knowledge? Are you joking? All one has to do is look at the past 5 years. It doesn't take any inside knowledge or any crystal balls; just common sense and an awareness of what's happening on a football field.

It's not a big deal, settle down Francis. I was more or less joking. But since you asked.

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Yes, Joe IS a smart guy. And that's exactly where the issues already raised about how the Ravens chose to treat him, especially with the whole Zorn/Cameron incident, enters the picture. The Ravens, through their actions, paid huge money to Ngata, Suggs, and they also chose to re-sign Rice. They did not choose to re-sign Flacco. (And please don't start with "they offered him a lot of money", okay? They offered him less than he was worth, and never budged from that spot, betting they'd put the squeeze on him. They bet. And they lost.)

How do you know what they offered him? How do you know it was the Ravens that lost? Joe could have gambled as well he could have not had this postseason and had to settle for less.

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

They also continued to saddle Joe with Cam Cameron, despite the documented difficulties between those two. Joe also can see the Falcons going out and getting Julio Jones, after already having Roddy White, Michael Turner, and Tony Gonzales. What that all adds up to is that as far as building an offense around Joe, it never really happened. The O-line was a joke as well. So because Joe is smart, he's smart enough to look at all of that and take that into account.

While there is much that would fall inline with the "inside knowledge" comment. It goes along with my joking that you were Joe Linta. The Falcons did a lot to help Ryan and so did the Ravens to help Joe. Brought in Boldin, resigned Rice, got a deep threat in Torrey, two young athletic Tight ends. Resigned the best guard in the game, Got a stud tackle who is now a guard. So looking at it through an objective view point (not one of Joe's agent) the Ravens have made moves too.

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Everyone keeps talking about how much better it will be for Joe here vs elsewhere. That's all well and good, but that's also filled with a certain amount of hype. There are going to be a lot of changes next year. Harbaugh has already come out and said he wants to keep Ed Reed. Ed Reed does not help Joe Flacco, OR the Ravens all that much. A LT DOES. The Ravens are going to have to make some tough choices. And based on their track record, it's not nearly as bright and rosy for Joe as some of you are making it out to be. So the notion that Joe should take less for the privilege of playing for the Ravens, while well intended, really doesn't carry that much weight. And he knows it. Because he's smart. IF some of the other factors had been dealt with differently, then it would be different now. But the Ravens made THEIR choices, now it's Joe's turn.

Again, this comes with a view that the Ravens have made no attempt to sign Joe. Or that they are treating him differently than every other franchise player they've signed to a big deal. This is one of the fanbase's main gripe is not signing guys earlier when you could potentially get them cheaper. i.e. Suggs, Ngata etc.

**The Excellector** · 02-06-2013, 12:45 PM

He is only in his fifth year and already setting records. He hasn't entered his prime yet and he's already talked about as one of the best in the league. He's 6, count em', 6 years younger than Brees, and that's nothing compared to Brady and Manning.

Who wouldn't want to be Joe Linta right now?

**The Excellector** · 02-06-2013, 03:55 PM

The Ravens have waited and waited for their franchise QB, hitting and missing on several occasions. He may not be the first guy. Then again, he may very well be the first guy in some arguments. However, the Ravens finally get their franchise QB and he's the one that gets old Oz by the balls in negotiating. There is absolutely no way for Ozzie to escape paying him $20 million a year without losing him and crippling the franchise.

**alien bird** · 02-06-2013, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

There is absolutely no way for Ozzie to escape paying him him less than $20 million a year without losing him and crippling the franchise.

Overpaying would also cripple the franchise. It's a fine line, but I have to believe that the front office will get something done without this dragging into the summer months.

**StingerNLG** · 02-06-2013, 03:59 PM

Guy, can we please keep all of these in 1 thread? Seriously we don't need to, 3, 4 different thread on the same thing. We already have a Joe Flacco contract thread.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

**HoustonRaven** · 02-06-2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Guy, can we please keep all of these in 1 thread? Seriously we don't need to, 3, 4 different thread on the same thing. We already have a Joe Flacco contract thread.

Agreed .... beat ya to it!

**leachisabeast** · 02-06-2013, 04:01 PM

20 million at the maximum, we can't afford to pay anymore than that, no player on this earth deserves more than 20 million a year in the NFL. Even if itw as Joe Montana in his prime, paying him more than 20 million would cripple a franchise.

**scbgirlxo** · 02-06-2013, 04:07 PM

All we can do is hope Joe is willing to to meet in the middle. But he did decline a very reasonable offer and his agent is now campaigning for him to be the highest paid quarterback

**bmorecareful** · 02-06-2013, 04:10 PM

Flacco can name his price up to whatever the exclusive rights franchise tag is. That's 20 and a little change I believe. He will get whatever he wants up to and including that.

If the Ravens offer less than that Flacco will never accept. Then they'll need to apply the tag, take the 20m cap hit, and keep him under control for a year. They'll be essentially betting that he won't perform at the level of his past 4 games in 2013. Oh, and by the way, Ozzie will have to totally gut the team to fit under the 2013 cap, and won't be able to sign a single free agent.

The non-exclusive tag is not an option. There are 10-15 teams in the league that will trip over themselves to give up 2 first rounders for Flacco, and many of them have more than enough cap space to give him what he wants. Then, the Ravens would be in the same problem they're already in: give him what he wants or lose him. They would need to fold again and match the offer.

So, the bottom line is that the Ravens have to give him whatever he pleases or watch him walk and take the team's playoff chances for the next few years with him. It's very interesting; Ozzie has never been in this position. He's completely powerless and gets to choose taking his medicine now or waiting until the last minute (as usual) and gutting the entire team along the way.

The FO must absolutely be kicking themselves for not paying Flacco what he wanted last August. Obviously that's outcome bias, but he had them over a barrel then and they chose to bet against him and they lost huge. They won't be able to do that again.

**admartian** · 02-06-2013, 04:11 PM

Is there any way we can at least backload Joe's salary (at least for the first two years) but give him a Ray Rice type signing bonus (obviously a the QB payscale)?

I'm not very clued-on regarding to how the cap works so please excuse me.

**NCRAVEN** · 02-06-2013, 04:13 PM

I'd take the top 5 QB's average out their per yer amount and offer him that.

You could debate whether the other QB's have better weapons or if they make the weapons better. But with looks like a decline on the defensive side of the ball, Joe is going to have to but up better numbers for this team to continue to win. I know his agent is starting at the top and doing what he has to to get his client paid, but Joe should not be paid more than the top, IMO.