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  1. #25

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money



    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Not every player wants to take an early deal. Look at Cary Williams. And for good reason a lot of times: Cary is going to make a lot more money than his offer last year. It's a risk to hold out for free agency but often it's worth it for a lot of players.

    And on the other hand, signing guys early is great but it also sets you up for holdouts when players realize that they are out-playing their deals. For example is Flacco signed a deal last year that averaged him 10-13 mil a year and then he had the exact same season this year, wins a Super Bowl, and maybe another Super Bowl in a year; you really think he's going to be happy being EXTREMELY underpaid in relation to his prodcution? That's how holdouts occur. Sooner or later you have to pay a guy what he is worth.

    It's a two way street really, it's not as easy as just saying "ok now I'm going to sign guys early."
    I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the Cary situation is comparable. They offered him a deal and told him take it or leave it; he left it. The same isn't true for Flacco... they were engaged in serious contract talks and there are indications that they were close to a deal at one point late last summer.

    I'm not saying a deal definitely would have happened if they pushed harder... we don't know enough to conclude that. But Ozzie's MO over the last few years has been to not pursue extensions before a player's walk year. He broke that mold with Webb and I'd like to see that happen more often.

    Don't buy the argument about holdouts. They're a bad idea--which is why they're pretty rare. They're especially rare for quarterbacks. And I don't think NFL GMs worry all that much about structuring contracts in anticipation of avoiding holdouts.




  2. #26
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Joe is gonna get paid. If he has a good SB (win or lose), he has even more bargaining power. IMO the FO is pretty much convinced that Joe is their franchise QB and are going to pay him. They are on the weak side of the bargaining table with this one.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!




  3. #27
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I wonder if this is the same "source" that said Rice wanted AP type money last offseason.




  4. #28

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the Cary situation is comparable. They offered him a deal and told him take it or leave it; he left it. The same isn't true for Flacco... they were engaged in serious contract talks and there are indications that they were close to a deal at one point late last summer.

    I'm not saying a deal definitely would have happened if they pushed harder... we don't know enough to conclude that. But Ozzie's MO over the last few years has been to not pursue extensions before a player's walk year. He broke that mold with Webb and I'd like to see that happen more often.

    Don't buy the argument about holdouts. They're a bad idea--which is why they're pretty rare. They're especially rare for quarterbacks. And I don't think NFL GMs worry all that much about structuring contracts in anticipation of avoiding holdouts.
    The Cary Williams situation is comparable to most position players, which, going forward are going to be the people that are up for early extensions. I don't think the Webb deal is any different; intrinsicly, I'm sure he had a "take it or leave it" deal as well. He just took his.

    And the Webb deal is actually a good example of the dangers of early extensions. Now, we all hope and expect him to come back stronger than ever from his ACL injury. But what if he doesn't? What if his ACL injury hampers him in the same way the Foxworth or dozens of other players haven't recovered fully from ACL injuries? Injuries can happen any time but instead of waiting out his 4 year rookie contract, the Ravens may be faced with paying a guy 55 mil who can't play.

    The fact is that sometimes 1-2 years is enough to determine if a guy is going to be a good player in the future but a lot of times it simply isn't.

    And most times players are going to get more money on the open market so a lot of guys, like Cary Williams, are willing to wait it out and get the fat payday. Like I said, it's a two way street. That's why the players fought so hard in 1990 for free agency, it's why the sacrificed game checks in their player strike to get free agency. They want to get that big pay day and that only comes when you have competition for your services.

    Has Ozzie's contract strategy led to the Ravens NOT being able to sign any of their key targets?




  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    The Cary Williams situation is comparable to most position players, which, going forward are going to be the people that are up for early extensions.


    Has Ozzie's contract strategy led to the Ravens NOT being able to sign any of their key targets?
    I was upset when Suggs, Lewis and Scott all hit the market in the same offseason, but that has payed off well with Scott's career going downhill of late. Other than that, the only move I really questioned was not locking up Yanda and Ngata during the uncapped year, though as we saw with the Cowboys and Redskins the FO may have had legit reasons to avoid that.

    With Cary Williams I can see his argument for holding out for free agency -- he's a role player here but could be paid like a star elsewhere. With Flacco the team is going to be built around him -- why would you want $20 mill per year to go 5-11 in Jacksonville?


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  6. #30
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

    (I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.




  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CincyCat View Post
    The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

    (I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.
    Well you could see that if you trade us AJ green.


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  8. #32
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyCat View Post
    The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

    (I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.
    I really don't think you guys need a QB. The one you have is gonna be a good one.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!




  9. #33
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    Well you could see that if you trade us AJ green.


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    Well played...well played

    Quote Originally Posted by lowrider View Post
    I really don't think you guys need a QB. The one you have is gonna be a good one.
    It's nice to hear someone say that. Andy improved in every category this year but I just found out he was sacked 22 more times than his rookie season. People here are banging on him pretty hard.




  10. #34
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by CincyCat View Post
    It's nice to hear someone say that. Andy improved in every category this year but I just found out he was sacked 22 more times than his rookie season. People here are banging on him pretty hard.
    People are gonna bang on him. Just ask Joe. They've been banging on him for 5 years. He has gotten much more love since this playoff run has begun. I like the way AD handles himself. He's a fighter, you can tell that, and if he keeps fighting he will get his props.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!




  11. #35

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  12. #36
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.
    Really not a mistake. Had they did a deal like that it would have been renegotiated and then it would have cost even more, or we would have a pissed off QB who would be looking for the door.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!




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