Ray Lewis PED Allegations (Merged)

[RavenScallywag]

And I think it DOES bear some merit that Ray Lewis has NOT failed any random drug testing for PEDs, and took a lie detector test in 2008 that he passed, saying he never took PEDs.

In the current case, it doesn't "acquit" him of anything, but it shows that you aren't talking about a guy who was sneaking around and hiding things for years.

[HoustonRaven]

No, but the fact it was intentionally delayed to land on a specific day for maximum exposure surely shows a certain disregard for getting the truth out, and instead a higher regard for clicks/subscriptions.

If they cared about the integrity of the sport and not just $$ why didn't this come out in October?

More than likely, this Ross fellow thought Ray would promote his stuff, and when he didn't, Ross got pissed and tried to smear him because of the controversy around the spray. A company that apparently secretly records the players they talk to, then tries to out them for taking a banned substance is not going to warm hearts and minds.

Certainly possible. This Ross character seems like a total douchebag.

Bad situation all around.

[Ravens27Girl]

The Armstrong example proves Florios point -- the absence of a failed drug test doesn't prove innocence.

And professional (just one) said it "might" not have the banned substance.

It also doesn't prove guilt which Mike Florio and others are trying to insinuate (or at least plant the seed) without doing any real fact checking. Not to mention the person making these allegations has been proven to be less than credible and even the NFL sees it as a non-story. People should be innocent until proven guilty 'beyond a reasonable doubt'...there is MORE than reasonable doubt here and this guy who is doing the accusing seems to have a beef to grind with Ray. Not to mention the timing of this report being released was extremely calculated.

It seems since the Ravens arrived in NO, there has been nothing but negative stories being peddled to the public regarding anything to do with the Ravens. I don't see them jumping on crap from the 49ers and I'm sure plenty could be dug up. Superbowl week is looking more and more like election week...the lowest life forms rise to the surface to create havoc and throw out BS.

[Phantoom]

If football players are on anything, they are probably taking hgh which isn't tested. Why would they take some deer antler crap when they can get stuff that is medical grade and works?

Maybe he was taking both? Maybe he knew getting busted for acquiring HGH would look far worse? I really don't know.

Again, I think the story is terrible, but only a cuckold would take an athletes word on PEDs these days, whether he plays for your team or not.

[bt12483]

I had a sports law class, where my professor said that the reason baseball has so much heat and scrutiny over PEDs is because of the baseball stat nerds. Because so much historical importance is placed on individual stats, PEDs in the MLB is viewed as worse than in the NFL, even though the guys in the NFL are likely just as dirty.

In baseball there are no assist HRs like there are assist tackles. It is 1 vs 1, not 11 v 11. RBs hit holes their OL created for them, most things in football are cooperative.

So thus there is not as much fervor over PEDs in the NFL, due to the nature of the game.

[Jayc00]

The point is they (the media) can beat this thing until there's nothing left of the horse, NOTHING will ever come from it. He's going to play in the Super Bowl, he's not going to get fined, he's going to retire, and he's a LOCK to be a first ballot HOF'er in 5 years. So let the media continue to look stupid, giving this play, and talking about it fueling Ray and the Ravens to beat the shit out of the Niners.

[alienrace]

The point is they (the media) can beat this thing until there's nothing left of the horse, NOTHING will ever come from it. He's going to play in the Super Bowl, he's not going to get fined, he's going to retire, and he's a LOCK to be a first ballot HOF'er in 5 years. So let the media continue to look stupid, giving this play, and talking about it fueling Ray and the Ravens to beat the shit out of the Niners.

This ^^

[HoustonRaven]

It also doesn't prove guilt which Mike Florio and others are trying to insinuate (or at least plant the seed) without doing any real fact checking.

I don't read that at all in the article. He was simply pointing out in this day in age that not failing test doesn't hold much water these days.

People should be innocent until proven guilty 'beyond a reasonable doubt'...there is MORE than reasonable doubt here and this guy who is doing the accusing seems to have a beef to grind with Ray

That's the legal standard, not the standard in the media. So are you on record now that Ben is not a rapist? Because he was never proven guilty.

[Hammerhead]

I just talked to a good pediatric endocrinologist contact of mine at Hopkins who works extensively with kids in need of HGH and substances like IGF-1. She said that there is no administration of IGF-1 except by injection (confirming the report in the Sun) and that there is no such thing as an IGF-1 spray. This just further confirms that this story was poorly researched and dumped out on Media Day to make the biggest splash possible. It is sloppy journalism at its worst. I would have thought SI learned its lesson from the T'eo story. I was wrong.

And for PFT and Florio, I just have one thing to say -- it is not for the guy who has passed multiple drug tests to exonerate himself. It is on the person making the allegation to prove that what they are saying is true. This story is a lot of smoke, mirrors and innuendo -- and it leaves Ray in an impossible position. Ray cannot prove a negative unless he has 24 hour recorded surveillance on him all of his life. It is on the accuser to prove the positive assertion. That, they have not done. And Florio being a recovering lawyer should know better.

[NCRAVEN]

The point is they (the media) can beat this thing until there's nothing left of the horse, NOTHING will ever come from it. He's going to play in the Super Bowl, he's not going to get fined, he's going to retire, and he's a LOCK to be a first ballot HOF'er in 5 years. So let the media continue to look stupid, giving this play, and talking about it fueling Ray and the Ravens to beat the shit out of the Niners.

The point to me isn't that nothing will come of it. It's the media is doing what they always do and this time it's very apparent. There are plenty of facts that are there that they are not reporting just so they can start a controversy and have people tune it.

They are dragging Ray's name through the mud (again) based of an ex-stripper's word saying he is linked to a banned substance which the company CLAIMS is in their product, which we have all read on this thread (via links from doctors) saying it's BS. Fucking Deer-antler spray, ARE YOU FUCKING kidding me.

NC is getting upset!

[Hammerhead]

And one other thing: this "Lance Armstrong also passed drug tests" line of argument is a complete crock. So a negative drug test is now proof of guilt? This Lance Armstrong argument is weak and is guilt by association.

You know who else didn't fail drug tests? ADOLPH HITLER. Ergo Ray is like Hitler. Great logic there, haters.

On the other side, I could tell you Mother Theresa never failed a drug test, nor did Gandhi, nor did Jesus, nor did Buddha, nor did Muhammad, nor did Moses, etc., etc. This argument by association proves absolutely nothing.

The Ravens organization should do everything to win on Sunday. Then, after Sunday, take SI to the woodshed for such a sloppy job.

[Hammerhead]

From what I've read milk and salmon either contain their own IGF-1 or can stimulate it's production in the body.

Are milk and salmon banned? What if players ate a shit ton of salmon and milk? Would that be considered using a banned substance?

What is the extent of something being banned? You can't ingest/inject it at all? Like 0%? That seems impossible for something like IGF-1, if normal foods like milk and salmon contain it.

Our drinking water has all sorts of contaminants, but they are below the levels set by government, and not deemed hazardous.

I understand taking a concentrated form of IGF-1 being banned, but you can't completely ban something that occurs naturally. It seems to me you have to have some % levels of what would likely lead to performance enhancement. If something has 0.01% IGF-1, how much impact would it really have? Just like alcohol %'s and DUI. A certain % and you are in trouble, below that you are not.

And the NFL set themselves up for failure by not requiring blood testing. If you ban certain things that can only be detected via blood, but then don't test blood, you are inviting suspicion and usage. I have little doubt PEDs are as rampant in the NFL as in the MLB, yet the MLB is held to a different standard.

Exactly. IF Ray used the spray, and IF it did contain IGF-1, you can't show that there are more than trace amounts of IGF-1 in the spray -- certainly not enough to have an effect or make a difference. There are too many IFs in this story to hang anything on Ray. And all on the word of this shady Ross character. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

[alienrace]

Exactly. IF Ray used the spray, and IF it did contain IGF-1, you can't show that there are more than trace amounts of IGF-1 in the spray -- certainly not enough to have an effect or make a difference. There are too many IFs in this story to hang anything on Ray. And all on the word of this shady Ross character. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

Add to the fact that the NFL didn't even bother to commission a test on the spray.

[NCRAVEN]

Add to the fact that the NFL didn't even bother to commission a test on the spray.

Sorry, but we can't add that. It makes it a non-story...

[bt12483]

The NFL doesn't want to address it because they don't want a controversy like MLB has.

It opens up a big can of worms IMO.

Why are hyperbaric chambers allowed? Those enhance healing. Matt Forte used one this year to help his ankle heal faster. Did he cheat?

What about Tylenol? That is performance enhancing too - if you have a headache and take Tylenol you just improved your ability to focus. Less pain too.

Vitamins are performance enhancing too.

Why are cortisone shots allowed? Ellerbe just had one. Did he cheat? The Saints had that prescription painkiller issue a few years back. Players probably pop those like candy. Is that cheating?

Where is the line drawn? Substances that directly contribute to muscle mass?

The NFL wants athletes to heal - they want Ray Lewis on the field. People pay to see the players on the field, not on the sideline injured.

Is there a distinction between taking a substance to heal faster as opposed to enhance muscle? The ADHD medicine does nothing to enhance muscle but supposedly gives a mental advantage. So clearly it is not just limited to muscle enhancement being the central focus.

The more you dig the messier it gets.

[HoustonRaven]

Add to the fact that the NFL didn't even bother to commission a test on the spray.

Thanks to the CBA, they couldn't up until this recent negotiation. And even now, they don't have a test.

The league has been waiting a test for years now.

[bt12483]

Thanks to the CBA, they couldn't up until this recent negotiation. And even now, they don't have a test.

The league has been waiting a test for years now.

The NFL is way behind MLB, Yet MLB gets way more flack.

MLB is seen as being complicit in the HR steroid era (it revived the game from the negativity of the strike). And maybe they were. No doubt many a blind eye was turned.

But because the NFL is dominant and #1, they don't want to do anything to rock the boat IMO.

The inherent differences between the sports also plays a factor. A team can double/triple team Calvin Johnson and limit his effectiveness even if he is juiced up. You can't double team ARod at the plate. He has more chance to reap the rewards of PEDs by virtue of the 1 on 1 matchup.

[NJRaven]

Because they don't think it's banned probably.

The list is so long and convoluted I can see mistakes being made.

This is a possibility. I work for MLB and our employee handbook has 5 full pages of banned substances. That said, this deer antler shit isn't the same as dosing IGF-1.

"A bottle contains around 180 sprays, and a typical dose is three sprays. Thus, a single dose of deer antler velvet contains between 50 and 84 nanograms of IGF-1. In order to mimic the research study that found IGF-1 to have similar benefits to growth hormone you would need to consume between 1,500,000 to 906,000 sprays PER DAY: that’s between 8,333 to 5,033 bottles per day."

[festivus]

My first thought was Manti Te'o. If they didn't line up all their ducks in a row before printing this story, right on the heels of the embarrassment from the ass kissing of Manti Te'o, it's a disgrace on top of a disgrace. I'm skeptical just because we're all now once bitten by SI; it's time to be twice shy.

FWIW, I don't care if it works or not. That's not the story, as far as I'm concerned. And I use "story" in the most generic sense of the word.

[bt12483]

This is a possibility. I work for MLB and our employee handbook has 5 full pages of banned substances. That said, this deer antler shit isn't the same as dosing IGF-1.

"A bottle contains around 180 sprays, and a typical dose is three sprays. Thus, a single dose of deer antler velvet contains between 50 and 84 nanograms of IGF-1. In order to mimic the research study that found IGF-1 to have similar benefits to growth hormone you would need to consume between 1,500,000 to 906,000 sprays PER DAY: that’s between 8,333 to 5,033 bottles per day."

This is like our drinking water having trace amounts of aspirin, birth control, etc. that gets pissed out when not absorbed into the body.