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  1. #37
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    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce



    The real question is going to be how this is going to affect Rice/Piece's fantasy value next year. Obviously, Piece had no fantasy going into drafts, but next year, he might be a pretty good late round pick up in deep leagues. Conversely, owners might shy away from Rice in the 1st round if they're worried about Pierce taking up his carries and goal line presence.




  2. #38
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    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Coastergenius View Post
    The real question is going to be how this is going to affect Rice/Piece's fantasy value next year. Obviously, Piece had no fantasy going into drafts, but next year, he might be a pretty good late round pick up in deep leagues. Conversely, owners might shy away from Rice in the 1st round if they're worried about Pierce taking up his carries and goal line presence.
    seriously?
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  3. #39

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    And I'm not dogging Pierce. The kid is talented.

    But to say he's a better back than Rice is, like I said, borderline insane.
    Insane really, Rice is a very good back, not a GREAT back. Peirce is more of a natural runner with better "hole" instincts and makes more people miss than Rice from what I see. Rice reminds me of smaller Lydell Mitchell, taking nothing away from Rice he is very good back. But, teams know when Pierce enters the game he is going to carries, dont be naive. He is a target just as Rice is, teams cant stop him. He just runs with better vision and deceptive speed and a quick, unpredictable 1.2. step hole step. I saw him at Temple, knew he was special, then.




  4. #40

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Insane really, Rice is a very good back, not a GREAT back. Peirce is more of a natural runner with better "hole" instincts and makes more people miss than Rice from what I see. Rice reminds me of smaller Lydell Mitchell, taking nothing away from Rice he is very good back. But, teams know when Pierce enters the game he is going to carries, dont be naive. He is a target just as Rice is, teams cant stop him. He just runs with better vision and deceptive speed and a quick, unpredictable 1.2. step hole step. I saw him at Temple, knew he was special, then.
    Yeah, it's insane.

    If Rice isn't a great back, I'd hate to see one.




  5. #41

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    Yeah, it's insane.

    If Rice isn't a great back, I'd hate to see one.
    Rice is a GOOD back, not great. Tied for 11th in YPC. He's not Peterson, Lynch or Spiller. Rice is a top 10 back, not a HOFer type.




  6. #42
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    Lol. Tell me the nine other running backs who have been more productive than Ray since he entered the league.

    Hell, tell me the five.

    Rice is an elite talent. I can't believe this is even a discussion.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  7. #43

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    It's a discussion because..Peirce is a good back as well. Any back that gets enough carries is going to amass 1200 yards. As far as "game breakers" with 8 in the box only Peterson, Charles, Johnson (again) and possible Spiller are Elite. The rest are basically interchangeable for the most part. Rice's career YPC isnt great, he is used much like Lydell Mitchell was an all-purpose back....very solid went to probowls, had contract dispute and traded for Joe Washington over $, but without Bert Jones and the Colts defense losing players the Colts declined. Heck, the rookie from Washington outperformed Rice this year a late rounder. RB's are overrated, nowadays because most teams use the pass to set up the run. Rice in the postseason hasnt been be all that great. Pierce has been better, Rice is really trying to hold on the ball to much rather than extend runs because of his postseason fumble woes. I dont blame him for that.




  8. #44

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Lol. Tell me the nine other running backs who have been more productive than Ray since he entered the league.

    Hell, tell me the five.

    Rice is an elite talent. I can't believe this is even a discussion.
    The highest Rice has ever ranked in YPC since 2009 has been 7th (in 2009) and he's been outside the top 15 every other year. Highest in rushing YPG has been 5th in 2011. I agree that Rice is an elite talent, but he's not in the top 5 or probably top 10 pure runners in the game right now. Rice IS the best running back in the league in the passing game, though.

    The whole point of this discussion is to make the most out of our RB situation. Out of the limited sample size of 2012 Pierce appeared to be the better pure runner of the two, particularly between the tackles. Rice is far superior as a pass-catching and blocking back. I think the Ravens should continue to give Rice all the work in the passing game, all the goal-line and red zone carries, as well as giving him more carries on draws, toss plays, etc. Pierce should be the grinder between the tackles.

    Part of this whole discussion should also center on the Ravens' blocking scheme. When they were a 100% man-blocking team in 2009 Rice looked like he could be one of the 2 or 3 best in the game. Ever since we've moved to more zone-blocking, Rice hasn't had that same burst and decisiveness. I don't honestly think Rice is a good fit for the ZBS, and if we went back to more man blocking concepts that might get Rice going better between the tackles as well.




  9. #45
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    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Trying to say that because Rice is only very good as a pure runner instead of great, without acknowledging that he is great as a receiver is totally missing the point.

    In his 4 years as a starter Rice has amassed 7500 yards from scrimmage, including 2 seasons of over 2000 yards from scrimmage. That's absurd. No one not named Marshall Faulk has ever accomplished that feat twice in their careers and Ray is only entering his prime years. He's also never had a season where he amassed less than 100 yards from scrimmage per start. I don't think I could find another back with the kind of production NOT in the Hall of Fame if I tried.

    Yes, there are guys who are better as pure runners. But playing halfback is not just about what you do after the handoff, it's about production and few players can hold a candle to Ray's.

    The idea that you can swap 2 backs in and out to do two completely different things and not have defenses notice and key on defending those things is equally ludicrous.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  10. #46

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Trying to say that because Rice is only very good as a pure runner instead of great, without acknowledging that he is great as a receiver is totally missing the point.

    In his 4 years as a starter Rice has amassed 7500 yards from scrimmage, including 2 seasons of over 2000 yards from scrimmage. That's absurd. No one not named Marshall Faulk has ever accomplished that feat twice in their careers and Ray is only entering his prime years. He's also never had a season where he amassed less than 100 yards from scrimmage per start. I don't think I could find another back with the kind of production NOT in the Hall of Fame if I tried.

    Yes, there are guys who are better as pure runners. But playing halfback is not just about what you do after the handoff, it's about production and few players can hold a candle to Ray's.

    The idea that you can swap 2 backs in and out to do two completely different things and not have defenses notice and key on defending those things is equally ludicrous.
    Because of use, and a checkdown passing attack basically. Also a 16 game schedule, not a 14 or 12 game schedule. I think Rice is "good" back, not "elite".
    In the Ravens history they have had a good RB since 2000 every year, no matter who carries the ball. Only Jamals 2000 yard season with an 8 man box front stands out. Rice is good, but not Canton bound by any means. Pierce is a "better" runner/ his pass catching abilities are YTD. Peirce might be a "great" or good receiving back, he hasnt been used in that capacity yet so we dont know. It's like basketball teams, someone is going to average 15-20 points a game on a bad team, doesnt mean he is a "elite" player. Points like yards are going to happen when given opportunities. Peirce, IMO has better RB skills. Just my opinion, only based on what I've observed. Rice is used exactly like Lydell was if you are old enough to remember. Rice is quality, no doubt.




  11. #47

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    The highest Rice has ever ranked in YPC since 2009 has been 7th (in 2009) and he's been outside the top 15 every other year. Highest in rushing YPG has been 5th in 2011. I agree that Rice is an elite talent, but he's not in the top 5 or probably top 10 pure runners in the game right now. Rice IS the best running back in the league in the passing game, though.

    The whole point of this discussion is to make the most out of our RB situation. Out of the limited sample size of 2012 Pierce appeared to be the better pure runner of the two, particularly between the tackles. Rice is far superior as a pass-catching and blocking back. I think the Ravens should continue to give Rice all the work in the passing game, all the goal-line and red zone carries, as well as giving him more carries on draws, toss plays, etc. Pierce should be the grinder between the tackles.

    Part of this whole discussion should also center on the Ravens' blocking scheme. When they were a 100% man-blocking team in 2009 Rice looked like he could be one of the 2 or 3 best in the game. Ever since we've moved to more zone-blocking, Rice hasn't had that same burst and decisiveness. I don't honestly think Rice is a good fit for the ZBS, and if we went back to more man blocking concepts that might get Rice going better between the tackles as well.
    I'd take CJ Spiller over Rice in the passing game. But he was a top 10 pick.




  12. #48

    Re: High Praise for Bernard Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    I'd take CJ Spiller over Rice in the passing game. But he was a top 10 pick.
    And why wouldn't you?

    I mean the way he can't supplant Fred Jackson as a starter, and that career high of 43 receptions this year, just screams out better back than Ray Rice.

    Of course Spiller is "elite." And Ray isn't.




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