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  1. #37

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"



    I actually don't mind Merrill too much even though he's a Raven hater but that is weird he said that......Tim Hasselbeck on the other hand. Wow that guy is the biggest douchebag on ESPN. How does he even have a job?




  2. #38
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    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    In order:

    1a: Rodgers
    1b: Flacco
    3: Brady
    4: Peyton
    5: Brees

    I'd buy that one!




  3. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    i respect a man even less when he can't stand for what he believes in..meril hodge go fuck yourself.
    That makes no sense. If people can't change their opinion based on new evidence (And Joe's playoff run this season is pretty compelling evidence) then what's the point?

    He thought Flacco was pretty good to average before, and then Flacco did something that only great QBs can do so he thinks he's great. What's the problem.

    Especially amusing in all this is the multipage thread abusing Tim Hasslebeck for NOT changing his mind about Joe.

    Guess some fans are happy to be miserable no matter what the world is saying about us.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  4. #40

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Where Hodge is concerned - no matter what he says - he continues to cement his position as the worst sports commentator. PERIOD!




  5. #41

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Hoge hoping and praying that Joe has an off year so he can bash him again. He' an ass wipe and will always be. Br doesn't belong in the top 5, br has injury problems and can't play 16 games a year. Top 5 Qbs play every game and don't choke in the 4th quarter.




  6. #42

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Too soon to make a list. A whole year with Jim IMO will cause the cream to rise to the surface. IMO Look for Joe to be on top. Pro Bowl hear comes Joe!!!




  7. #43

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Iscull View Post
    Who do you guys have in your top 5?

    I'm thinking (In no order): Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Flacco, Eli Manning
    Taking into account their achievements, skills, and future (years left in the NFL):

    1. Flacco
    2. Brees
    3. Rodgers
    4. Brady
    5. Russell Wilson
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  8. #44

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    I do find irony in the fact that Joe tied Montana's record. Flacco like Montana is all about the WINS. If it takes 3200 yds and 24 TD's so be it. If it takes 4200yds and 40 TD's I think he can pull that off to with the right personnel around him. He takes care of the ball and makes smart decisions. Not afraid to take a chance but even when he does, he does it in a way that minimizes the risk.

    I had to laugh at some fans of opposing teams who say Joe just throws the ball up for grabs 50-50 throws. Its only a 50-50 throw if you throwing it to a guy who who is not physical enough to out muscle the CB for the ball. Joe understands his personnel, he gets their strengths and utilizes them. He know a 50-50 ball thrown correctly to Boldin is really a more like a a 80-0-20 if thrown right (80% completion, little INT chance and 20% incomplete). Seeing this understanding of his personnel and the ability to exploit it excites me as much as any of his physical skills do
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  9. #45
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    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    I do find irony in the fact that Joe tied Montana's record. Flacco like Montana is all about the WINS. If it takes 3200 yds and 24 TD's so be it. If it takes 4200yds and 40 TD's I think he can pull that off to with the right personnel around him. He takes care of the ball and makes smart decisions. Not afraid to take a chance but even when he does, he does it in a way that minimizes the risk.

    I had to laugh at some fans of opposing teams who say Joe just throws the ball up for grabs 50-50 throws. Its only a 50-50 throw if you throwing it to a guy who who is not physical enough to out muscle the CB for the ball. Joe understands his personnel, he gets their strengths and utilizes them. He know a 50-50 ball thrown correctly to Boldin is really a more like a a 80-0-20 if thrown right (80% completion, little INT chance and 20% incomplete). Seeing this understanding of his personnel and the ability to exploit it excites me as much as any of his physical skills do
    Some idiot Stillers fan was trying to tell me Flacco is lucky to have Boldin get jump balls. Some people are clueless.

    I've seen Flacco make tons of incredibly difficult throws, but he knows how to use his personnel like you said. Boldin is like a power forward that knows how to box out the D to get the rebound. You just put it up high and give him a shot. 9/10 times Boldin will out muscle any dback in the league. And if Boldin misses it, it's most likely sailing out of bounds safely.




  10. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Scaggsville, MD
    Posts
    755

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    The tiered approach is the best way to evaluate QBs, because you can nitpick between them based on the standards you are choosing. Do you want the most accomplished QB, or the one that gives you the best chance to win this year, or the one you would build a franchise around if you were drafting a team from scratch? Joe is not at the top of any of those questions, but if you're looking for a confluence of the three he can be surprisingly high up there.

    Tier 1: Aaron Rodgers

    There's almost no doubt that Rodgers tops the list across the board. He has a Super Bowl ring, a bunch of postseason appearances, amazing regular season stats and plenty of youth left in him. And yet... if Joe Flacco plays under Caldwell next season and looks like he has played this past postseason, if he gets anywhere CLOSE to that, his name will join Rodgers in this rare air.

    Tier 2: The old champs - Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees

    These guys all have at least one ring, several outstanding statistical accomplishments, and are among the threats every year to win another title. If you want one QB for this upcoming season to win a title, any one of these guys is a great choice. But none of them are young; every year there's the risk that their skills will start to degrade and they'll slide out of the NFL like Brett Favre recently did. Long-term, you wouldn't trade Joe Flacco for any of these guys. And when he gets a contract that rivals theirs, just remember that he'll actually see the other side of that contract and still be playing.

    Tier 3: The young champs - Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger

    The rest of the guys who have rings and are still playing. Eli and Ben have two each; they've outdone Joe in current accomplishments. But by virtue of not putting up the same consistent statistical excellence in the regular season as the four guys above, they get relegated to the next part of the list. However, they're also younger and will be leading their teams longer than the Tier 2 guys. And Joe is the youngest among them by a few years.

    Tier 4: The phenoms - Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton

    The next breed of NFL quarterback, all of these guys are in their first two years, all of them are cheap on their current contracts (some extremely so), and all of them have high hopes. But you can't put them above the existing champs because they need to prove it for more than just one or two seasons. If you're starting an NFL team from scratch, you could make a case for any of these guys over Flacco, especially if you're getting them at their current prices. But none of them have rings now.

    Tier 5: Still young, still high potential - Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford

    These two are the closest comparables to Flacco, and this is the tier I'd put Flacco in if he didn't just win a title. They have greater statistical prowess in the regular season but their postseason record in both cases is abysmal, and you can argue they're doing it with better receivers (Julio/Roddy/Gonzo, Megatron and Random Guy Opposite Megatron). I wouldn't argue with anyone who believes that these guys can lead championship teams.

    Tier 6: Young non-phenoms - Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, and potentially others (Brandon Weeden, Jake Locker, Sam Bradford)

    What separates these guys from Tier 4 is that everyone in Tier 4 is constantly described according to their stellar physical gifts and incredibly high ceiling. Most of these guys could, maybe, over time get there... but there's an observable difference between them and the five listed above them. Cincy fans would push Andy Dalton up there, Dolphin fans would argue for Tannehill, and so forth, but I can't elevate any of them into that group.

    Tier 7: Getting older with something missing - Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Matt Schaub, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel

    Flacco haters, until this postseason, could have shoved him into this category. There's a wider range of talent here... personally I think Jay Cutler could be pushed up into the Ryan/Stafford tier, and who knows what happened to Philip Rivers lately. I'd bet a lot more money on Matt Schaub to win a title than Matt Cassel. But all these guys have seen some NFL success, enough to get more chances, and yet... it just feels like all of them are trending downward for one reason or another. Guys with these QBs leading their franchises are looking around and wondering whether the next guy is right around the corner, whether they could do better with someone else.

    Tier 8: Not much hope left - Kevin Kolb, Blaine Gabbert

    These guys could be in Tier 6 if you're generous, and you can push Tier 6 guys down here at will if you're being stingy. These guys are at risk of being relegated to backup duty next season, or are basically already there.

    Tier 9: Guys who fumble off their own OL's butts - Mark Sanchez

    OMGWTFLOL.




  11. #47

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    The tiered approach is the best way to evaluate QBs, because you can nitpick between them based on the standards you are choosing. Do you want the most accomplished QB, or the one that gives you the best chance to win this year, or the one you would build a franchise around if you were drafting a team from scratch? Joe is not at the top of any of those questions, but if you're looking for a confluence of the three he can be surprisingly high up there.

    Tier 1: Aaron Rodgers

    There's almost no doubt that Rodgers tops the list across the board. He has a Super Bowl ring, a bunch of postseason appearances, amazing regular season stats and plenty of youth left in him. And yet... if Joe Flacco plays under Caldwell next season and looks like he has played this past postseason, if he gets anywhere CLOSE to that, his name will join Rodgers in this rare air.

    Tier 2: The old champs - Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees

    These guys all have at least one ring, several outstanding statistical accomplishments, and are among the threats every year to win another title. If you want one QB for this upcoming season to win a title, any one of these guys is a great choice. But none of them are young; every year there's the risk that their skills will start to degrade and they'll slide out of the NFL like Brett Favre recently did. Long-term, you wouldn't trade Joe Flacco for any of these guys. And when he gets a contract that rivals theirs, just remember that he'll actually see the other side of that contract and still be playing.

    Tier 3: The young champs - Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger

    The rest of the guys who have rings and are still playing. Eli and Ben have two each; they've outdone Joe in current accomplishments. But by virtue of not putting up the same consistent statistical excellence in the regular season as the four guys above, they get relegated to the next part of the list. However, they're also younger and will be leading their teams longer than the Tier 2 guys. And Joe is the youngest among them by a few years.

    Tier 4: The phenoms - Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton

    The next breed of NFL quarterback, all of these guys are in their first two years, all of them are cheap on their current contracts (some extremely so), and all of them have high hopes. But you can't put them above the existing champs because they need to prove it for more than just one or two seasons. If you're starting an NFL team from scratch, you could make a case for any of these guys over Flacco, especially if you're getting them at their current prices. But none of them have rings now.

    Tier 5: Still young, still high potential - Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford

    These two are the closest comparables to Flacco, and this is the tier I'd put Flacco in if he didn't just win a title. They have greater statistical prowess in the regular season but their postseason record in both cases is abysmal, and you can argue they're doing it with better receivers (Julio/Roddy/Gonzo, Megatron and Random Guy Opposite Megatron). I wouldn't argue with anyone who believes that these guys can lead championship teams.

    Tier 6: Young non-phenoms - Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, and potentially others (Brandon Weeden, Jake Locker, Sam Bradford)

    What separates these guys from Tier 4 is that everyone in Tier 4 is constantly described according to their stellar physical gifts and incredibly high ceiling. Most of these guys could, maybe, over time get there... but there's an observable difference between them and the five listed above them. Cincy fans would push Andy Dalton up there, Dolphin fans would argue for Tannehill, and so forth, but I can't elevate any of them into that group.

    Tier 7: Getting older with something missing - Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Matt Schaub, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel

    Flacco haters, until this postseason, could have shoved him into this category. There's a wider range of talent here... personally I think Jay Cutler could be pushed up into the Ryan/Stafford tier, and who knows what happened to Philip Rivers lately. I'd bet a lot more money on Matt Schaub to win a title than Matt Cassel. But all these guys have seen some NFL success, enough to get more chances, and yet... it just feels like all of them are trending downward for one reason or another. Guys with these QBs leading their franchises are looking around and wondering whether the next guy is right around the corner, whether they could do better with someone else.

    Tier 8: Not much hope left - Kevin Kolb, Blaine Gabbert

    These guys could be in Tier 6 if you're generous, and you can push Tier 6 guys down here at will if you're being stingy. These guys are at risk of being relegated to backup duty next season, or are basically already there.

    Tier 9: Guys who fumble off their own OL's butts - Mark Sanchez

    OMGWTFLOL.
    I like this list. I may disagree with a few here or there, but you did a nice job categorizing the list. I feel you recognized the fact that qb A. may be more talented than qb B. but his accomplishments or age or whatever seperate the tiers. The list is def. more thought out than the basic tier 123 then whatever is left. I prolly would still do a more traditional tier list i.e. tier one is Rogers, Brady, Peyton, Brees, but I appreciate your take on the list.




  12. #48

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    What sets Joe apart is his decision making. I also believe that this whole "we're gonna suck next year" thing is idiotic. Will there be some growing pains with Ray leaving and the D losing some pieces, absolutely. However, this offense, under Caldwell will continue to thrive IMPO and Flacco will thrive. I think the offense has the capability of being top 5 next season.




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