The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

[callahan09]

I could make a pretty strong case for either one, really. Joe Montana was the most efficient, to be sure, accomplishing his 11 TDs and 0 INTs in about 40 fewer passes than Flacco. He also had 300 fewer yards or so, but works out to about the same yards per attempt as Flacco. His yards per completion was 12.3, and Flacco's was 15.6, so Flacco definitely relied more on making the big play, and it resulted in no shortage of spectacular highlight reel plays, while Montana had a couple of those, most of his throws were routine and efficient, not spectacular and unlikely.

What kind of road did they have to take to get to their eye-popping stat lines?

1989 49ers - 3 Games

2 games at home, 0 on the road
Defense allowed 26 points (8.7 points per game)
Defense allowed 708 yards (236 yards per game)
Defense had 12 takeaways (4 per game)
Defense allowed less than 4 yards per play
Defense held opposing QBs to: 58/119, 615 Yards, 0 TD, 9 INT = 48.7%, 5.17 Y/A, 32.7 QB Rating
Running game support: 153 yards per game, 1.25 TDs per game, over 4.2 yards per carry, 21.8 carries per TD


2012 Ravens - 4 Games

1 game at home, 2 on the road
Defense allowed 88 points (22 points per game)
Defense allowed 1713 yards (428.3 yards per game)
Defense had 10 takeaways (2.5 per game)
Defense allowed more than 5.4 yards per play
Defense held opposing QBs to: 101/179, 1146 Yards, 5 TD, 6 INT = 56.4%, 6.40 Y/A, 71.1 QB Rating
Running game support: 131 yards per game, 0.75 TDs per game, under 4.1 yards per carry, 42.7 carries per TD


Obviously the fact that Joe Flacco had to play 2 of his games on the road adds a lot more impressive flair to his résumé than Montana not having to go on the road at all. The difference in defense is also staggering. 4 takeaways per game for the 49ers in HUGE. 236 yards per game and less than 4 yards per play allowed is also a monstrous achievement for that defense. And then he also got more efficiency out of his running backs.

These factors all certainly make it easier on a quarterback. I wish I could have found drive info on the 1989 games, like starting field position for each drive, etc., but I couldn't find it. Given the takeaways and extremely stingy defense that the 49ers had in those playoffs, I'd wager that Montana was given very favorable field position throughout. Flacco was definitely not given favorable field position in his games, and he was forced to do more work, throw the ball more, and put the games in his hands. Montana just cruised along while all his supporting pieces and defense played at an equally high level to his own performance, which makes it easier on everyone when the whole team is working like a well oiled machine.

Given all that, I'd honestly have to say that in my opinion Flacco had the most impressive post-season in NFL history, but it's damn close to Montana's nearly statistically perfect 1989.

[callahan09]

Some other interesting facts about this post-season that highlight just how extraordinary it was, what Flacco did:

- Highest passer rating in a 4 game post-season in NFL history (117.2).
- First QB with a 100+ QB Rating in 4 games in a single post-season.
- Highest passer rating in the Super Bowl out of any Super Bowl performance by active QB's (Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Manning, etc. all included).
- 11 touchdowns, no INTs for only the second time in NFL history.
- Most pass attempts without an INT in a single post-season in NFL history (Second: Drew Brees 102 in 2009).
- Most consecutive pass attempts without an INT in a single post-season in NFL history (Second: Eli Manning 112 in 2011).
- 88 points allowed in the post season is the most ever allowed by a Super Bowl winning team.
- 1713 yards allowed in the post-season is the most ever allowed (second most was 1403 by '87 Broncos, who lost the Super Bowl).
- 31 points allowed by his defense in the Super Bowl is tied with the '78 Steelers for most ever allowed by a Super Bowl winning team.
- 468 yards allowed by his defense is the most ever allowed in a Super Bowl (winning or losing team).
- 2.66 yards per carry and no touchdowns from his running backs in the Super Bowl is the 2nd fewest yards per carry with no touchdowns in the Super Bowl ever, behind only the 2.23 yards per carry and no touchdowns by the '99 Rams.

[JAB1985]

love Joe Flacco, but Montana's was better, imo. I get the argument that his importance towards the win may have been not as needed, their defense was apparently a lot better, but i dont think that diminishes what he did accomplish offensively. Really nitpicking two great performances either way but to me 11TDs in 3 games is a good bit more than 11 in 4 games.

[Paintballguy]

Not even being a homer, but I think Flacco's performance bested Montana's. You gotta think that the 1989 49'ers were ridiculously stacked with talent. It was before the salary cap started in the NFL, and the 49'ers were able to stack their team. It doesn't diminish Montana's talent, but he definitely had the better team to work with.

[StingerNLG]

Ok, but we are talking about Joe Montana here. Arguably top 5 all time QB. I love that Flacco tied his record this year, and I think Flacco is on the rise to get into the conversation of those kind of guys. But the nod still goes to Joe M for me. Especially rewatching the superbowl that year on NFLN.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

[bmorecareful]

Flacco's 2012 was far greater than Montana's 1989. That's not even in question. The 49ers outscored their opponents 126-26 and outclassed their opponents at literally every position on offense, defense, and special teams. The '89 49ers defense was one of the greatest defenses of all time. Your stats tell the rest of the story perfectly.

Now, let's give Montana his due. His 1989 wasn't as good as Flacco's 2012, but Montana had a passer rating over 100 in every playoff game he played in 3 straight years which included TWO title runs. That (among other things) is why he's one of the greatest of all time.

[esmd]

Not to diminish Flacco's, but Montana threw those TD's in one less game and completed 79% of his passes. I gotta say Montana. That said, I'm sure happy we've got our Joe and I'll roll with him anytime.

[Jeremiah W]

Not even being a homer, but I think Flacco's performance bested Montana's. You gotta think that the 1989 49'ers were ridiculously stacked with talent. It was before the salary cap started in the NFL, and the 49'ers were able to stack their team. It doesn't diminish Montana's talent, but he definitely had the better team to work with.

That was going to be my argument. That 49er team was sickly stacked. The cap may have been in place, but iirc they got in trouble for circumventing it later on.

So while Montana was the best QB i ever saw, and his best was flawless, if the question is which run was most impressive, I choose Flacco. Flacco did not have as much to work with, and he had to do it 4 times, including on the road as huge underdogs. If it was a tie going in, I think the tiebreaker has to be "the throw" in Denver. The FS got a lot of blame for that throw, and he did misjudge the ball badly, but how high did that thing go in the air and how long was it up there? Those seconds the ball was in the air seemed like they lasted a lot longer than usual.

[alienrace]

I think that Flacco's 2012 postseason was better than Montana's 89 for a couple of reasons. Namely, the Ravens were huge underdogs, and really up against it against Denver. The miracle bomb in Denver kinda seals it for me. Flacco didn't just put up the great stats, he made HUGE plays with the game in the balance against formidable opponents. Montana was more like a god smiting down upon weaker foes, in perfect fashion.

[riprulz8]

1989 49ers - 3 Games

2 games at home, 0 on the road
Defense allowed 26 points (8.7 points per game)
Defense allowed 708 yards (236 yards per game)
Defense had 12 takeaways (4 per game)
Defense allowed less than 4 yards per play
Defense held opposing QBs to: 58/119, 615 Yards, 0 TD, 9 INT = 48.7%, 5.17 Y/A, 32.7 QB Rating
Running game support: 153 yards per game, 1.25 TDs per game, over 4.2 yards per carry, 21.8 carries per

Holy Crap! They didn't allow a passing TD? That is just silly!

As far as whose was better, if you take in consideration how each teams defenses were playing, the fact that Flacco was on the road for 2 of 3 before the SB and that our Joe's status as a QB was in doubt by at least SOME of the media/fans/pundits, I would say that Flacco's was at least the most jaw dropping if not the better over all performance.

[HoustonRaven]

Kind of like deciding who has the better filet mignon, Morton's or Fleming's ...

Joe M. get's the nod, IMO. This is going to come down to the age of the poster. The fact Montana did it with one fewer game stands out as the separating factor.

[Captain Silver]

I can say as a former 49er fans and now current Raven fan and steadfast Joe Flacco backer, you guys are nuts. I watched all those games and Montana was a razor. No need to speak of what the defenses were doing, nor special teams, or lucky get up and runs like Jacoby had, Joe Montana was not just cool, razor sharp, but ridiculously efficient in a time when defenses were allowed inter-fear a great deal more than they are today.

You are being clear homers if you think Montana is anything but #1 in this instance.

[phacts]

Throwing TDs on the road in tight, extremely competitive games > throwing TDs at home in blowouts.

I'll go with Flacco on this one.

[Paintballguy]

I can say as a former 49er fans and now current Raven fan and steadfast Joe Flacco backer, you guys are nuts. I watched all those games and Montana was a razor. No need to speak of what the defenses were doing, nor special teams, or lucky get up and runs like Jacoby had, Joe Montana was not just cool, razor sharp, but ridiculously efficient in a time when defenses were allowed inter-fear a great deal more than they are today.

You are being clear homers if you think Montana is anything but #1 in this instance.

Flacco had 3 td's in the first half. He would've had more if not for the Jacoby return and drops by receivers.

[JohnBKistler]

Kind of like deciding who has the better filet mignon, Morton's or Fleming's ...

Joe M. get's the nod, IMO. This is going to come down to the age of the poster. The fact Montana did it with one fewer game stands out as the separating factor.

Agreed.

One other point...Montana earned his legendary reputation playing 15 out of his 22 playoff games at home or at the neutral SB site (of coarse, the one in Palo Alto was basically a home-game, too).

Think about that...Flacco has almost as many road playoff wins (6) as Montana had games (7) in his entire career. Montana was 2-5 on the road.

If the Ravens can continue to consistently make the playoffs, and begin to secure home-field advantage...the Flacco/Montana comparisons may advance from what they did one year, to what they did in their career.

[jaydee414]

I can say as a former 49er fans and now current Raven fan and steadfast Joe Flacco backer, you guys are nuts. I watched all those games and Montana was a razor. No need to speak of what the defenses were doing, nor special teams, or lucky get up and runs like Jacoby had, Joe Montana was not just cool, razor sharp, but ridiculously efficient in a time when defenses were allowed inter-fear a great deal more than they are today.

You are being clear homers if you think Montana is anything but #1 in this instance.

This. Times 2.

[Jeremiah W]

I can say as a former 49er fans and now current Raven fan and steadfast Joe Flacco backer, you guys are nuts. I watched all those games and Montana was a razor. No need to speak of what the defenses were doing, nor special teams, or lucky get up and runs like Jacoby had, Joe Montana was not just cool, razor sharp, but ridiculously efficient in a time when defenses were allowed inter-fear a great deal more than they are today.

You are being clear homers if you think Montana is anything but #1 in this instance.

It depends on if the question is better or more impressive. Montana looked like Jordan out there. There is little argument about him as the GOAT. However. His team was so loaded, and they were just rolling so well that he did not have to face the kind of adversity that Flacco did in this run. Flacco also was not throwing to Jerry Rice, who was always open, and not just because like Boldin, he was open even if covered, he actually constantly got seperation. The defense may have been allowed to be more physical, but I do not remember Rice getting roughed up or even covered close enough to arm bar or hold him.

So while Flacco has a very long way to go to get to a Montana level, and there really is no comparison or argument there, it is fair to compare this post season run very favorably to Montana's most dominant run. Flacco was not nearly as dominant, but was so clutch in so many key situations, IMO he gets the nod. I am a Harm City Homer though so you may be right. I did have to alter the OP to make my case.

[callahan09]

I can say as a former 49er fans and now current Raven fan and steadfast Joe Flacco backer, you guys are nuts. I watched all those games and Montana was a razor. No need to speak of what the defenses were doing, nor special teams, or lucky get up and runs like Jacoby had, Joe Montana was not just cool, razor sharp, but ridiculously efficient in a time when defenses were allowed inter-fear a great deal more than they are today.

You are being clear homers if you think Montana is anything but #1 in this instance.

I did half the work in terms of the field position battle I discussed in my original post.

For the 2012 Ravens in the post-season: Average starting field position: 26.27 yard line. Out of 49 drives, 5 started inside our own 10 (7 including drives that started ON the 10), and 16 started inside our own 20. Another 8 started at the 20. So that's 24 out of 49, or about 50%, of our drives that started inside or on the 20. We had 5 drives start inside opponent territory, with the farthest downfield being the opponent 37. We had 14 drives start past or own 30 yard line (including the 5 that started in opponent territory). So over 70% of our drives started with 70+ yards to go for a touchdown, and nearly 50% started with 80+ yards to go.

I post this in response to you, since you watched the 49ers games as a fan back in 1989, and I was curious if you have any insight about starting field position on their drives in that post-season. Or since you were a fan maybe you'd be more interested than I am in doing the research on that.

[JohnBKistler]

I did half the work in terms of the field position battle I discussed in my original post.

For the 2012 Ravens in the post-season: Average starting field position: 26.27 yard line. Out of 49 drives, 5 started inside our own 10 (7 including drives that started ON the 10), and 16 started inside our own 20. Another 8 started at the 20. So that's 24 out of 49, or about 50%, of our drives that started inside or on the 20. We had 5 drives start inside opponent territory, with the farthest downfield being the opponent 37. We had 14 drives start past or own 30 yard line (including the 5 that started in opponent territory). So over 70% of our drives started with 70+ yards to go for a touchdown, and nearly 50% started with 80+ yards to go.

Wow...nice work...seen in isolation without comparable info on Montana's starting drive positions, that seems very impressive.

[somedumbguy]

Montana is the clear #1. Its not really even close. You can look for mitigating factors all you want but Montana was near perfect that post season. The 49ers were soul crushingly good. You can't knock Montana's performance because he had a good defense or better receivers.