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  1. #25
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    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?



    Brady threw 6 touchdowns against Denver in the playoffs last year. Who gives a shit about that?

    Nobody in their right mind did, as it was clear the Broncos were not a good team at all.
    Last edited by PurpleApocalypse37; 02-07-2013 at 10:40 AM.




  2. #26
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    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    No one is knocking his performance. The question is which is the more impressive performance by the QB? Montana, with one of the all-time great teams around him and home field throughout the playoffs, or Flacco, leading a team that lost 4 of 5 going into the playoffs and on the road in 2 of three playoff contests?

    The Niners out-classed everyone they played that off-season. The Ravens were underdogs in every contest save the Irsays, and big underdogs to get to the Super Bowl. I give the nod to Flacco, because the Niners probably would have won the SB that year even if Steve Young (the back-up) had had to start. They probably would have won if third-string Steve Bono had had to start. They were that much of a better team than anyone else in the playoffs that year. If the question were "which was the better team, the 2012 Ravens or the 1989 Niners?" it's an easy answer: the Niners.

    So, on the one hand, you have a QB at the helm of one of the all-time great teams on both sides of the ball, and on the other you have a team with significant holes in all facets of the game. Given that, I think Flacco's performance in this postseason was better than Montana's in getting to that 11 TD 0 INT stat.
    I think Flacco's performance has been amazing. Probably top 5 in post season runs of all time. Did Flacco have to overcome more adversity than Montana to win? Maybe? If overcoming adversity is your standard than maybe Flacco fits into that conversation. I consider that 49ers offense the best of all time. Better than the Vikings of the late 90's, better than the Rams of the late 90's early 2000's and better than the Saints and Patriots of present day. Watching them that year, and particularly in the playoffs was as close to football perfection as I have ever seen. 1a on my list of football perfection is the Ravens Defense in 2000. What Flacco did is impressive, but I just can't raise it to that level of artistry. Putting it closer to home, Is Flacco's playoff run more impressive than Ray Lewis' playoff run in 2000? I mean no disrespect to Joe F., but I have to put Montana on another level.




  3. #27
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    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by somedumbguy View Post
    I think Flacco's performance has been amazing. Probably top 5 in post season runs of all time. Did Flacco have to overcome more adversity than Montana to win? Maybe? If overcoming adversity is your standard than maybe Flacco fits into that conversation. I consider that 49ers offense the best of all time. Better than the Vikings of the late 90's, better than the Rams of the late 90's early 2000's and better than the Saints and Patriots of present day. Watching them that year, and particularly in the playoffs was as close to football perfection as I have ever seen. 1a on my list of football perfection is the Ravens Defense in 2000. What Flacco did is impressive, but I just can't raise it to that level of artistry. Putting it closer to home, Is Flacco's playoff run more impressive than Ray Lewis' playoff run in 2000? I mean no disrespect to Joe F., but I have to put Montana on another level.
    How do you envision Flacco's numbers looking if the Ravens defense played as well as San Fran's defense?




  4. #28

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37 View Post
    How do you envision Flacco's numbers looking if the Ravens defense played as well as San Fran's defense?
    Well that's the rub. There is definitely an argument that Flacco had the more difficult task, so putting up numbers like that in the situations he was in make, in my eyes, Flacco's performance a little more remarkable. Yes, I am plenty old enough to remember Montana. The Niners weren't my favorite team at the time, but I did love watching them play. There is also no doubt in my mind that Montana is the GOAT, and probably always will be. The 89 performance was remarkable, it was the best I'd ever seen, until this year, IMO. I just think that being a HUGE underdog, on the road for two of those games, and the big, stunning plays that stand out, in some cases miraculous, I have to believe that Flacco's was the best. Nobody can argue that Flacco didn't have a tougher mountain to climb.

    Honestly, I am getting sick of people saying "you're a homer" or whatever bullshit if you make the argument for Flacco's performance. Fuck off already.




  5. #29

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    There is definitely an argument that Flacco had the more difficult task, so putting up numbers like that in the situations he was in make, in my eyes, Flacco's performance a little more remarkable.
    In his first 2 games in the playoffs (home vs. MIN and on the road at CHI), Montana destroyed the top 2 defenses in the league...not diminishing what Flacco had to face in Denver and vs. San Francisco...but Montana didn't have a walk in the park, either.




  6. #30
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    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37 View Post
    How do you envision Flacco's numbers looking if the Ravens defense played as well as San Fran's defense?
    About the same. I don't know if this is Joe's fault though. When the Ravens get up they get more conservative on offense. It kills the clock and it wins ball games but it doesn't lead to producing statistics. It is also not about yardage and touchdowns entirely. Improved defense doesn't really make up the difference in completion percentage.




  7. #31

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Mistake #1: Neglecting to acknowledge the vast difference in what defenses were able to do to an offense twenty years ago, compared to now.

    Mistake #2: Understating the fact that Montana did it in three games

    Mistake #3: Overlooking damn near 80% completion. Look at how the West Coast offense has evolved since then. Look at how many teams began running variations of it and how many do today. None of those QBs. I repeat, none of those QBs have come close to 80% completion in an entire Super Bowl run, even with the rules more heavily favoring the offense, compared to back then.

    Mistake #4: Overvaluing the defenses Joe faced. The Colts defense sucked. It was pass rush or bust. Denver's defense was all pass rush and nothing else. That had been the case the entire season. They got away with it, because Peyton put pressure on opposing offenses to keep up with him. Which is exactly what Montana did on another level, once upon a time. New England's defense sucked.

    This 'sounds' like the classic case of someone unable to put together the true picture with their eyes, because they didn't see it. Only to try and justify their misguided view with statistics (A baseball approach).

    There were certain players that you just had to see, to fully appreciate how special they were. Johnny Unitas. Jim Brown. Joe Montana is one of those guys.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #32
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    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Mistake #1: Neglecting to acknowledge the vast difference in what defenses were able to do to an offense twenty years ago, compared to now.

    Mistake #2: Understating the fact that Montana did it in three games

    Mistake #3: Overlooking damn near 80% completion. Look at how the West Coast offense has evolved since then. Look at how many teams began running variations of it and how many do today. None of those QBs. I repeat, none of those QBs have come close to 80% completion in an entire Super Bowl run, even with the rules more heavily favoring the offense, compared to back then.

    Mistake #4: Overvaluing the defenses Joe faced. The Colts defense sucked. It was pass rush or bust. Denver's defense was all pass rush and nothing else. That had been the case the entire season. They got away with it, because Peyton put pressure on opposing offenses to keep up with him. Which is exactly what Montana did on another level, once upon a time. New England's defense sucked.

    This 'sounds' like the classic case of someone unable to put together the true picture with their eyes, because they didn't see it. Only to try and justify their misguidEd view with statistics (A baseball approach).

    There were certain players that you just had to see, to fully appreciate how special they were. Johnny Unitas. Jim Brown. Joe Montana is one of those guys.
    Couldn't agree more! I love me some Joe Flacco but to compare him to Montana in '89 is just crazy IMO. Montana was like playing Madden and he made it look easy...




  9. #33

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Couldn't agree more! I love me some Joe Flacco but to compare him to Montana in '89 is just crazy IMO. Montana was like playing Madden and he made it look easy...
    The reality that Joe Flacco is even in the vicinity is an honor in itself. Some are just getting greedy.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #34

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    The reality that Joe Flacco is even in the vicinity is an honor in itself. Some are just getting greedy.
    Look, I saw them both play. I'm 46 years old, k?

    All I am saying is that there are arguments to be made for Flacco's case. Opinions may vary. But for those belittling others for having those opinions, I think that is unnecessary.

    I'm just happy that he can be mentioned in the same breath too, and that we have another ring.




  11. #35

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Look, I saw them both play. I'm 46 years old, k?

    All I am saying is that there are arguments to be made for Flacco's case. Opinions may vary. But for those belittling others for having those opinions, I think that is unnecessary.

    I'm just happy that he can be mentioned in the same breath too, and that we have another ring.
    The OP is making the argument using stats to try and justify his case, without accounting for the intangible variables of that era, (likely because he didn't get to see Montana play, no fault of his) such as the level of difficulty for offenses back then. I highly doubt that is the argument that you would agree, is to be made here.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #36

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    In his first 2 games in the playoffs (home vs. MIN and on the road at CHI), Montana destroyed the top 2 defenses in the league...not diminishing what Flacco had to face in Denver and vs. San Francisco...but Montana didn't have a walk in the park, either.
    Montana did it with the no. 1 offense in the league in '89. The Niners were first in offense and fourth in defense. The '89 Niners are one of the best NFL teams in the history of the league.

    It's like saying Montana was more impressive for winning Daytona driving the best car in the field in '89 than Flacco doing it in 2012 driving a stock Ford Mustang.




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