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  1. #61
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    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster



    Just watched that clip on Brandon Williams, and I am sold. Look at how he's shaped, and compare him to how Cody is shaped, there is a huge difference. He would be a typical Raven pick.




  2. #62

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    CJ Moseley should have declared, he would have been the best ILB in this class.
    Agreed. I will never fault a kid for playing all four years, but he is definitely taking a awful gamble from a money standpoint. Given his position, he's likely never going to be a top 10 pick. It's not as if going back for another year is going to move him up from middle 1st round to top 8 status.

    This year, had he gone out, I would have thought he would have been anywhere from 12-18. Last year's #11 pick, Dontari Poe, got $11.1 million over 4 years. The 19th pick, Shea McClelland, got around $8.4. That money is all but guaranteed as long as you don't pull a Titus Young or stink beyond belief.

    So next year, at best, he's going to make the same $8-11 million that he would have as a top 18 pick of the 2013 draft class. All he had to do was declare, not flop at the combine, and this place was assured. Now he has to go back to Alabama and avoid injury or a down year for another year to essentially get the opportunity to make the same type of money next year. Yes, if he excels, he might move up to the 9th or 10th pick and get $13 million instead of $11. However, if he gets hurt or does even the smallest thing to slip out of the first round, he can expect that money to nosedive. Courtney Upshaw, taken 3 picks into round 2 (35th overall), got $5.2 million over 4 years. It's not unreasonable to think Moseley, without any huge dropoff in play could easily slip to 35th or lower in next years draft.

    Now if Moseley goes on to have a 12 year career and makes his $50-$70 million, whether he is drafted 14th or 24th or 44th won't matter too much. If his career is more of the 4-5 year variety, not taking the money when it's at it's near-highest point could be a disastrous mistake.

    I know there are intangible factors that make athletes want to come back to school, but I think any prospect (particularly a QB----ahem Matt Barkley) that has an assured spot in the top 20-25 picks in a draft is taking a poor gamble by not declaring, particularly in such a short-careered sport like football.

    You also have to consider that CJ Moseley will also hit free agency one year later by not declaring early.




  3. #63
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    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Me too. I thought for sure Vellano and AJ Francis would get an invite.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner
    Me too. There is a lot of depth at D line this year I've read, so perhaps that has something to do with it. That can only be good news for the Ravens since I have to believe it's their number one priority. I love Vellano. I wonder why he isn't seen as more of a player for the NFL. I guess it's beccause he's short-ish and only 280 lbs. But that's exactly the sort of objection the Ravens have taken advantage of -- taking players other teams think are too small or too slow but all they do is make plays. After watching him make 20 tackles against Georgia Tech -- as a nose tackle -- I was sold. He reminds me of Kelly Gregg. And I figured someone will throw a sixth round pick at him. It might take a few years to develop in the NFL, but if I'm drafting, I take a shot with him.




  4. #64

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Well, you got Minter and Madsen right
    I've watched a lot of tape of Minter lately and fully count me in on the bandwagon. I just hope he lasts to #32. Madsen is a really good and versatile player and I needed an interior line backup, so it fit!

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    You and I always seem to have some good debate, so let me play devil's advocate a bit with you here.

    1) What does Josh Boyce's potential bring to our franchise that Deonte Thompson hasn't already?
    Well, they definitely profile similarly--both are 5'11 200 or so, both of them are speedy and returned kicks and punts in college... but the similarities end there. Boyce is definitely way more proven and talented. He's way more developed as a route runner and his college production was way better (60% more yards and receptions, over twice as many TDs, and all of that despite playing a whole year less).

    For a guy I have slotted in the 6th round, Boyce is a really good bet to be productive in the NFL, IMO. I think he's a really good fit for what I foresee Jim Caldwell's offense looking like.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    2) If Minter and Kawann Short are both there at 32, who do you take?
    Short is probably the better overall player, but I think he's a little less likely to be the pick. If we continue to play primarily a 3-4 next year, I don't think Short is a very good fit for that system, and I also don't see an overwhelming need at 5-tech end (which is the position he'd likely play). If we moved to more 4-3 looks then he'd be a great pick but I think Minter would be a better pick for what we want to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    3) What about Quessenberry makes him a better prospect than Ricky Wagner in your opinion? (not debating you, just trying to get a different POV)
    Quessenberry has much quicker feet, better bend, and overall is much more technically proficient and athletic than Wagner. He does a very good job of using his hands and mirroring pass rushers. I do NOT consider Quessenberry to be a potential day 1 starter at LT, though. He needs to get stronger and put on a little weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    4) Juszczyk is a guy I've heard little about. Do you think he'd even be drafted? Operating under your assumption from last night that Michael Williams will go later than my projection, why not just take him in this spot?
    I think Jusczyzk is a much more versatile player. He's projected as a fullback in the pro's, which is a position I think he could play at an extremely high level, but he was primarily an H-back at Harvard. He can play FB, HB, TE, and even align in the slot and out wide. He is SHOCKINGLY athletic for his size and build and he catches the ball really nicely. I do think he'll likely be drafted. Check out this tape: http://draftbreakdown.com/kyle-juszc...princeton-2012

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Brandon seems to be all over the place. I saw a couple of mock drafts that had him and Mathieu as the last two picks of the 2nd round.

    I saw one (CBS sports) that had him ranked as their 71st best prospect (early-mid 3rd round)

    Draftsite has his as their 103rd rated prospect (early 4th round)

    Walter Football lists him as a 5th-7th rounder.

    Did he get a combine invite?
    Yes, he got a Combine invite. I'm not sure how anybody can think he'll last into the 3rd day. Nose guards with his size and strength that collapse the pocket and rush the passer like he does are pretty darn valuable. Wicked compared him to BJ Raji earlier and I definitely think that's a good comparison. Even though the level of competition is a concern, when you just watch the guy MOVE he is just faster than 330lb guys are supposed to be.




  5. #65

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Agreed. I will never fault a kid for playing all four years, but he is definitely taking a awful gamble from a money standpoint. Given his position, he's likely never going to be a top 10 pick. It's not as if going back for another year is going to move him up from middle 1st round to top 8 status.

    This year, had he gone out, I would have thought he would have been anywhere from 12-18. Last year's #11 pick, Dontari Poe, got $11.1 million over 4 years. The 19th pick, Shea McClelland, got around $8.4. That money is all but guaranteed as long as you don't pull a Titus Young or stink beyond belief.

    So next year, at best, he's going to make the same $8-11 million that he would have as a top 18 pick of the 2013 draft class. All he had to do was declare, not flop at the combine, and this place was assured. Now he has to go back to Alabama and avoid injury or a down year for another year to essentially get the opportunity to make the same type of money next year. Yes, if he excels, he might move up to the 9th or 10th pick and get $13 million instead of $11. However, if he gets hurt or does even the smallest thing to slip out of the first round, he can expect that money to nosedive. Courtney Upshaw, taken 3 picks into round 2 (35th overall), got $5.2 million over 4 years. It's not unreasonable to think Moseley, without any huge dropoff in play could easily slip to 35th or lower in next years draft.

    Now if Moseley goes on to have a 12 year career and makes his $50-$70 million, whether he is drafted 14th or 24th or 44th won't matter too much. If his career is more of the 4-5 year variety, not taking the money when it's at it's near-highest point could be a disastrous mistake.

    I know there are intangible factors that make athletes want to come back to school, but I think any prospect (particularly a QB----ahem Matt Barkley) that has an assured spot in the top 20-25 picks in a draft is taking a poor gamble by not declaring, particularly in such a short-careered sport like football.

    You also have to consider that CJ Moseley will also hit free agency one year later by not declaring early.
    +10000 to this. I'll never understand these guys. They "say" they want to finish their degree, or win a BCS championship, or whatever... but I really think they just want another year of the easy college lifestyle. If I were Matt Barkley I'd probably want to hang around USC getting treated like a god, hitting the beach after Basketweaving 101, and banging all the hot chicks too--instead of grinding away at an NFL training camp.

    That's without even considering the financial concerns... which almost invariably turn against the draftee. For every Andrew Luck who kept his #1 overall status, you have 10 Matt Barkley's (unlikely to even go in the 1st now), and you'd think they'd learn by now.




  6. #66

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Me too. There is a lot of depth at D line this year I've read, so perhaps that has something to do with it. That can only be good news for the Ravens since I have to believe it's their number one priority. I love Vellano. I wonder why he isn't seen as more of a player for the NFL. I guess it's beccause he's short-ish and only 280 lbs. But that's exactly the sort of objection the Ravens have taken advantage of -- taking players other teams think are too small or too slow but all they do is make plays. After watching him make 20 tackles against Georgia Tech -- as a nose tackle -- I was sold. He reminds me of Kelly Gregg. And I figured someone will throw a sixth round pick at him. It might take a few years to develop in the NFL, but if I'm drafting, I take a shot with him.
    Agree completely about Vellano's comparison to Kelly Gregg. He played most of last season with a hurt ankle and still was a force, I think he may have been tops in ACC in tackles for a loss. He's definitely undersized but I wouldn't have any problems taking him late in 5th or 6th because he has a motor. I'm kind of hoping he flies under the radar if the Ravens are interested.




  7. #67

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtlesNBirds View Post
    Agree completely about Vellano's comparison to Kelly Gregg. He played most of last season with a hurt ankle and still was a force, I think he may have been tops in ACC in tackles for a loss. He's definitely undersized but I wouldn't have any problems taking him late in 5th or 6th because he has a motor. I'm kind of hoping he flies under the radar if the Ravens are interested.
    In my mock draft above, I was very close to penciling Vellano in as one of our picks in the same area as Larry Black Jr. Is a 6th rounder reasonable for him?




  8. #68

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtlesNBirds View Post
    Agree completely about Vellano's comparison to Kelly Gregg. He played most of last season with a hurt ankle and still was a force, I think he may have been tops in ACC in tackles for a loss. He's definitely undersized but I wouldn't have any problems taking him late in 5th or 6th because he has a motor. I'm kind of hoping he flies under the radar if the Ravens are interested.
    His game is not as much run-stopping as pass rushing; I would compare him in terms of his skill-set more to Corey Redding than Gregg.

    But in terms of a guy who is undersized and uses pure motor and technique to overcome his lack of size: in that way he is exactly like Kelly Gregg.




  9. #69

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    In my mock draft above, I was very close to penciling Vellano in as one of our picks in the same area as Larry Black Jr. Is a 6th rounder reasonable for him?
    I think Vellano is about 50/50 to be drafted at all. I personally think he's a good player, and worthy of being drafted, but his draft stock is difficult to nail down. He's listed at 6'1 285, he played all over UMD's DL this year (they ran both 4 man and 3 man fronts), and it's hard to get a feel for his scheme fit. He doesn't have the length you look for in a 5-tech 3-4 DE, he doesn't have the speed to be a 4-3 end, and he's very, very small for a 3-4 NT. His best fit might be at 4-3 DT but this draft is so deep at that position and Vellano didn't really play that position as much in college.

    The fact that he didn't get a Combine invite bodes poorly for how the NFL feels about his pro potential, and unfortunately we won't get a chance to evaluate how he does in the workouts, which would give us a bigger clue to where he might fit in the NFL. Players with that many scheme/position/etc. question marks often slide down the draft, and Vellano already had concerns with his athletic ability and level of competition. I think he could very well go undrafted.

    However it shakes out though I would LOVE to have Vellano on the Ravens. Guys with his motor and intangibles are worth having on your team if only to intensify practice and keep your locker room amped up. I have a hard time seeing how he hits the field in our 3-4 system where he doesn't have a natural position, but I wouldn't bet against him.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    His game is not as much run-stopping as pass rushing; I would compare him in terms of his skill-set more to Corey Redding than Gregg.

    But in terms of a guy who is undersized and uses pure motor and technique to overcome his lack of size: in that way he is exactly like Kelly Gregg.
    I don't agree with this. Cory Redding is a natural 3-4 5-tech; he's 6'4 300 with very long arms and overall a long, muscular build; a prototypical "length and strength" player.

    Kelly Gregg was generously listed at 6'0 310, but was probably spotting him an inch or two and 15-20 pounds. In my opinion, Kelly Gregg was the most "functionally strong" defensive lineman I have ever seen. His pad level, leverage, ability to anchor, and full-body strength were way, way beyond his measurements, but when his body started to break down and he lost those attributes he was no longer an NFL caliber player.

    I don't think Vellano has anywhere near the strength Gregg had but he has a quicker first step. I see the Gregg comparisons based on build and play style but I also think Vellano has some Jay Ratliff in him. A creative defensive coordinator might be able to use him like Ratliff was used in Wade Phillips' 3-4, more of a penetrating presence on the inside rather than an anchor/leverage player.

    You would think that with those player comparisons Vellano would be well thought of by NFL teams, but Gregg was undrafted and Ratliff was a 7th round pick. The NFL is still very conservative when it comes to the draft, and "tweeners" like Vellano, Gregg, and Ratliff often suffer because teams don't know how to use them.




  10. #70

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    bmorecareful, you seem to put a lot of time into watching college game film.

    What's your opinion of Braxton Cave compared to Joe Madsen? Which do you prefer?

    Also, aside from Eifert and Teo, do you see any other ND players getting drafted? Matta? Cierre Wood? (have to imagine he would). Theo Riddick?




  11. #71

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    In my mock draft above, I was very close to penciling Vellano in as one of our picks in the same area as Larry Black Jr. Is a 6th rounder reasonable for him?
    I wish there was more video of him online because a lot of people on this board are well-versed in the techniques of defensive lineman. For where he's projected, a 6th would be totally reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    His game is not as much run-stopping as pass rushing; I would compare him in terms of his skill-set more to Corey Redding than Gregg.

    But in terms of a guy who is undersized and uses pure motor and technique to overcome his lack of size: in that way he is exactly like Kelly Gregg.
    That's fair, I am probably thinking of a young Kelly Gregg before the knee injuries, who used great leverage and made a bunch of tackles.




  12. #72

    Re: Ok, here it is....my official projected 2013 roster

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtlesNBirds View Post
    I wish there was more video of him online because a lot of people on this board are well-versed in the techniques of defensive lineman. For where he's projected, a 6th would be totally reasonable.



    That's fair, I am probably thinking of a young Kelly Gregg before the knee injuries, who used great leverage and made a bunch of tackles.

    Yeah you might be right I might be forgetting the type of penetration Gregg got in his prime. Anyway the main thing I was trying to say was that Vellano's game is based on penetration (which is why I pointed to Redding) rather than anchoring and stuffing at the point of attack.




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