Would we cut Suggs to keep Kruger?

**NCRAVEN** · 02-10-2013, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Cary Williams has allowed 45 first downs and TD's.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

A lot of that was very early on in the year. I think he was still covering fro his hip surgery then.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-10-2013, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

As opposed to the slow front 7 we have now? At the very least we can be strong in the middle and let Upshaw and McClain or whoever we put there contain the sidelines with the safeties on run plays.

Its not perfect, but we spent a lot of the season getting gashed up front and not getting any push on pass plays with 4 man rushes. I don't think we can completely turn into a speed defense so why not use the players we do have/hope to keep?

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Sting, I didn't say I don't think we should go to a 4-3...I'm not disagreeing with you. i don't really care one way or the other, but I will say that IMHO, a 3-4 defense when you don't have many quality LB's is not ideal.

I'm just saying that it's a very, very slow front 7 and I pray that we can bring in a fast LB in the draft and a faster, versatile defensive linemen. I think that front 7 would absolutely get eaten alive in the passing game...we need a concerted effort to draft speed in our front 7 and I'm sure Ozzie will do so...for whatever front we run.

**psuasskicker** · 02-10-2013, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

But surely you can't just let him go this year? Just because of a down year caused by two significant injuries.

I never said we should let Suggs go this year. I definitely would not do that. He's the leader of the defense right now.

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Nice to hear that they want Reed back. Would fill a massive hole in the offseason, and would allow us to address purely the Dline and LB.

Reed is a bigger hole than not having him at this point. He took a massive step back this year and has been in decline for the last couple years. There's no reason to expect him to get better, and odds are good he's going to get worse. FO has him as the #1 guy with most broken tackles against for the year. He's ineffective in, if not outright blowing coverage. The only time he intercepts passes is if they're overthrown. The guy was a HoF player, but it's time to let him move on.

It's actually painful to think that Flacco wouldn't be willing to take a bit less to be here. His agent sounds like he's trying to get a max deal, and that's not conducive of putting great players around him who can help make him look even better. I never really understood this. I never understood why guys don't try to do this more. Why take a gigantic deal when instead you could take about half that, get your team to surround you with great players, win a few more Super Bowls and become iconic? You can easily more than make up that difference in endorsements. What I worry most about is that Flacco winds up costing us so much now, he completely hampers our ability to field a team with great players and we never get back to another Super Bowl with him under center. This league is so tight that one or two great players instead of one or two mediocre players can completely make that difference.

- C -

**LukeDaniel** · 02-10-2013, 09:14 PM

I'm sure it's been mentioned in the 6 pages before, but Suggs also has $4.6 in dead money towards next year too. So you'd be ridding yourself of one your best players to save $6 million this year only to have $4.6 million come off your cap # for next year. It's nonsensical.

**StingerNLG** · 02-10-2013, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Sting, I didn't say I don't think we should go to a 4-3...I'm not disagreeing with you. i don't really care one way or the other, but I will say that IMHO, a 3-4 defense when you don't have many quality LB's is not ideal.

I'm just saying that it's a very, very slow front 7 and I pray that we can bring in a fast LB in the draft and a faster, versatile defensive linemen. I think that front 7 would absolutely get eaten alive in the passing game...we need a concerted effort to draft speed in our front 7 and I'm sure Ozzie will do so...for whatever front we run.

I hear ya RIW. I'm predicating this based on what the 2013 roster might end up looking like. If we can keep both Kruger and Ellerbe, then that obviously changes things. I hate the 3-4, but Kruger makes it work.

I think that front 4 would be better than you think against the pass. Obviously it would be better than our current 3DL situation. Cody or Kemo is sitting at the NT as it is. Art Jones really started coming on at the end of the year, and we want to keep Suggs. My train of thought is based on at least Cody still being here next year. Even if he still sucks, you have three other guys on the line that should have some rush ability in Suggs, Ngata, and Jones. And that doesn't mean you can't still blitz one of the LB's

LB is going to be an issue no matter what. Ellerbe and Upshaw obviously are the two best LB's we could have if we ended up keeping Ellerbe. So if they drafted a faster LB, then that also changes things.

**conviction** · 02-11-2013, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Sting, I didn't say I don't think we should go to a 4-3...I'm not disagreeing with you. i don't really care one way or the other, but I will say that IMHO, a 3-4 defense when you don't have many quality LB's is not ideal.

I'm just saying that it's a very, very slow front 7 and I pray that we can bring in a fast LB in the draft and a faster, versatile defensive linemen. I think that front 7 would absolutely get eaten alive in the passing game...we need a concerted effort to draft speed in our front 7 and I'm sure Ozzie will do so...for whatever front we run.

Agreed, I like the versatility of the 3-4. I think it uses more 5 players at the los, and you got your wildcard hybrids at the edge. That is why we got Upshaw. I would like to see the Ravens take the route of selecting a 3-4 DE in the first round if possible. If not I'm looking at ILB, T, OLB. Maybe S in the 2-3 round range.

Pure speculation but I identify as those being our biggest needs, but we'll see how FA shakes out and we can readjust our strategy come draft time.

**leachisabeast** · 02-11-2013, 12:53 AM

Tom Brady took a massive hometown discount to make the team better lol.

**wickedsolo** · 02-11-2013, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Tom Brady took a massive hometown discount to make the team better lol.

I thought he just restructured his deal to make cap room? I could be wrong, but I dont think he actually took a pay cut...if he did, it wasnt that much.

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**BIGBALL** · 02-11-2013, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Sirdowski

He who has no sin cast the first chide.

I love sour cream & chides on my baked potatoes..

**saintmatthew** · 02-11-2013, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Tom Brady took a massive hometown discount to make the team better lol.

Early on he did. The next one I'm pretty sure he cashed in his chips.

**Paintballguy** · 02-11-2013, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Tom Brady took a massive hometown discount to make the team better lol.

His cap hit for this season and next is 21.8 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-engla...ots/tom-brady/

**pslholder96** · 02-11-2013, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

His cap hit for this season and next is 21.8 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-engla...ots/tom-brady/

Since we're on this topic check this out. 3 of their players account for nearly a third of the cap. Yikes.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ercent-of-cap/

**Beau Petard** · 02-11-2013, 08:40 AM

psl--
I was laughing at the following reader response/post at your link which is titled "Three Pats consume 35 percent of cap" ---

"When I saw the headline about consumption, I knew Vince Wilfork had to be one of them."

**srobert96** · 02-11-2013, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

I never said we should let Suggs go this year. I definitely would not do that. He's the leader of the defense right now.

Reed is a bigger hole than not having him at this point. He took a massive step back this year and has been in decline for the last couple years. There's no reason to expect him to get better, and odds are good he's going to get worse. FO has him as the #1 guy with most broken tackles against for the year. He's ineffective in, if not outright blowing coverage. The only time he intercepts passes is if they're overthrown. The guy was a HoF player, but it's time to let him move on.

It's actually painful to think that Flacco wouldn't be willing to take a bit less to be here. His agent sounds like he's trying to get a max deal, and that's not conducive of putting great players around him who can help make him look even better. I never really understood this. I never understood why guys don't try to do this more. Why take a gigantic deal when instead you could take about half that, get your team to surround you with great players, win a few more Super Bowls and become iconic? You can easily more than make up that difference in endorsements. What I worry most about is that Flacco winds up costing us so much now, he completely hampers our ability to field a team with great players and we never get back to another Super Bowl with him under center. This league is so tight that one or two great players instead of one or two mediocre players can completely make that difference.

- C -

Echo the sentiments regarding Reed. I hope he retires but regardless I think the Ravens should move on . He avoided contact most of the year. His body is failing him.

I also worry about the impact of Flacco's contract on the rest of the team. If they are going to be around 20m a year I think they have to do it for 8 years. The only thing I can take comfort in is that it is going to drive up the cost of Rogers, Ryan, and the young guys.

**JAB1985** · 02-11-2013, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

A lot of that was very early on in the year. I think he was still covering fro his hip surgery then.

I agree, as the season went on he became better and better specifically in that area.

Im surprised so many people are anti-Reed in this thread. To me Reeds best attribute is his ability to read and react to the offense which he still does at a great level. Hes not an all world safety by every measure but hes certainly still one of the best in the game as a whole. Neck injury aside he still influences games whether thats showing up in the boxscore or not. Not much unlike Lewis' last few years here where the leadership outweighed performance. With Lewis gone, we may need some more of that leadership and ability to get the defense in the right positions. Suggs and Ngata are great leaders/players as well but neither really seem like the type to adjust the Defense, Reed fits that mold. At some point Id say the price doesnt match the production, but without saying numbers yet im not sure how we can just say let him go, we dont need him.

**rlh445** · 02-11-2013, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Tom Brady took a massive hometown discount to make the team better lol.

lol brady didn't take a hometown discount, he had his contract restructured.

**Teavo** · 02-12-2013, 11:52 AM

Just thinking out loud here, but if we're envisioning a 4-3, what if we toss Cody out of that starting lineup? The questions are: can Arthur Jones play DT in a 4-3 scheme? He has the build for it (6'3" 313 lbs). And can Pernell McPhee be a 3-down player at DE? Or at least something near that? Because then we'd have:

Def. Line: McPhee - Ngata - Jones - Suggs
Linebackers: Upshaw - Ellerbe - McClain/McClellan/Draft

I wonder if McPhee might wear down a little at LDE at 280 lbs but maybe not, and he'd be backed up by the beastly Upshaw who is a 272 lb monster truck at SLB, providing extra beef as needed.

This would add speed and pass rush while removing the sluggish Cody from the starting group. Basically I'd rather see McPhee than Cody in the front 7.

**esmd** · 02-12-2013, 12:51 PM

Cody would definitely not be a starter, and I think your alignment makes sense. Problem is, I'm skeptical that they can keep Ellerbe. I think you're more likely to have a draft pick in there. I could also see them playing a hybrid, with Suggs switching off between OLB and DE. The rest of your alignment could basically stay the same.

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 02-15-2013, 02:41 PM

Suggs should be extended until 2017 when he'll be 34 years old.
Because the best pass rushers are usually still pretty good up to that age.

But I am concerned that he isn't having surgery to repair the partially torn biceps--and that he needed to go to someone else for a second opinion to diagnose that he could rehab it.

I can think of quite a few times when players would seek out 2nd or 3rd opinions telling them they can rehab and avoid surgery for their injury, only to later need surgery after all.

We obviously don't want that with Suggs, especially when his salary takes up quite a bit of our cap space.