Would we cut Suggs to keep Kruger?

**Miz89** · 02-10-2013, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Darrell Revis would have been picked alive with our lack of pass rush that we had at the start of the year. You can only cover for so long in this league before the offensive player can separate no matter how talented you are. Cary Williams isn't the greatest corner in he world, nor would I say he's elite or anything, but he's a very solid player in the Cromartie tier of corners. He will get paid, lets just be glad we have very good depth at corner.

Revis would have been a lock down corner here, I don't think people realize how good he is. And Cromartie is much much better than Cary "Can't cover a curl" Williams.

**jonboy79** · 02-10-2013, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Miz89

Revis would have been a lock down corner here, I don't think people realize how good he is. And Cromartie is much much better than Cary "Can't cover a curl" Williams.

disagree on Cromartie. He's not that great. He bites on double moves worse then CW. He jsut has the ball skills to wow people and attract attention. He can't cover for shite.

**Paintballguy** · 02-10-2013, 03:29 PM

Cary Williams has allowed 45 first downs and TD's.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

**leachisabeast** · 02-10-2013, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Cary Williams has allowed 45 first downs and TD's.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

Pass rush and coaching.

He should be jamming not playing off. Anyway, whatever the reasons, its not our problem anymore, he wont be a Raven next year. Thanks for the solid two years Cary. Just be thankful we're set at corner even without him for now.

**Paintballguy** · 02-10-2013, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Pass rush and coaching.

He should be jamming not playing off.

I agree. A lot of it was scheme. Pees likes to play off receivers with quarters. Basically gives them the easy comeback or in route.

**alien bird** · 02-10-2013, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

LOl... we got trolled into a 4 pg thread about this

If you change your settings you can get it down to less than that. I get 40 posts per page.

**rlh445** · 02-10-2013, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Darrell Revis would have been picked alive with our lack of pass rush that we had at the start of the year. You can only cover for so long in this league before the offensive player can separate no matter how talented you are. Cary Williams isn't the greatest corner in he world, nor would I say he's elite or anything, but he's a very solid player in the Cromartie tier of corners. He will get paid, lets just be glad we have very good depth at corner.

lol revis would have been championed here. he's not some overrated corner, he's a guy who has the speed, smarts and instincts that all contribute to him being called a shutdown corner. plus, he knows where and how to hand fight and not get caught. guy would be just as good here as anywhere else. i'd love to have him here opposite Webb.

**alien bird** · 02-10-2013, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Miz89

. . . we will cut you in order to keep someone else who really only truly showed up because he knew he had to if he wanted to get paid!"

That's not a true (or fair) assessment of Kruger's career in Baltimore. The Ravens effed around with his weight and position for 2-3 years before deciding they should let him play his natural position, and then he was behind JJohnson, which limited his playing time. Who knows what would have happened if they just played him at the position he was when he was drafted.

Even so, I still wouldn't cut Suggs to keep him.

**jonboy79** · 02-10-2013, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by alien bird

If you change your settings you can get it down to less than that. I get 40 posts per page.

lol.... it's 5 now at 20 posts a page.

As slow as this site has been since the SuperBowl, i'll leave it where it is for now.

**B-more Ravor** · 02-10-2013, 04:10 PM

There's ONE huge flaw (amongst many) to Florio's story. In order to re-sign Kruger, the team is likely to need the savings from Suggs' release, but if they were to do a post-June 1 release, they wouldn't have that Cap space until after June 1. Because of that, the space created by Suggs' release is basically useless to getting Kruger re-signed in March.

And, FWIW, releasing him prior to June 1, would only save them $1.8M in Cap space, while forcing them to carry over $11M in dead money on the Cap.

**RavensRule21215** · 02-10-2013, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

There's ONE huge flaw (amongst many) to Florio's story. In order to re-sign Kruger, the team is likely to need the savings from Suggs' release, but if they were to do a post-June 1 release, they wouldn't have that Cap space until after June 1. Because of that, the space created by Suggs' release is basically useless to getting Kruger re-signed in March.

And, FWIW, releasing him prior to June 1, would only save them $1.8M in Cap space, while forcing them to carry over $11M in dead money on the Cap.

They can't be over for a couple of months, then make it up before the start of the season? (i.e. sign someone with money that's not there yet because Suggs hasn't been cut, then apply that money after he's been cut as long as it's before Sept?)

**B-more Ravor** · 02-10-2013, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

They can't be over for a couple of months, then make it up before the start of the season? (i.e. sign someone with money that's not there yet because Suggs hasn't been cut, then apply that money after he's been cut as long as it's before Sept?)

No, as of the first day of the league year - March 14th - they must be under the Cap and must stay under for the remainder of the league year.

**StingerNLG** · 02-10-2013, 05:58 PM

There is still another option, albeit one the Ravens are probably not going to consider. I still think they may benefit from moving to a 4-3. Hear me out on this. We all know Cody sucks as a NT. BUT, since it's likely he's not getting cut anytime soon, why not keep him next to Ngata, but then bookend them with Suggs and Art Jones? Or McPhee or Tyson, whichever DE would be the best coming out of preseason.

So I envision this:

DL: Jones - Ngata - Cody - Suggs
LB: Upshaw - Ellerbe - McClain

So I'm basing this off the idea that Upshaw may never be a hot pass rusher (although I think with time he will get there too). So if Cody can't handle guards/tackles by himself, MAYBE with a guy on each side he can eat up some space or help Ngata push the middle of the pocket in. Jones may not have a great PR but on blitzing situations he could occupy the tackle and give Upshaw a shot at the QB. And we know how good Ellerbe is at timing blitzes. And if we can't keep Ellerbe, then a draft pick or whatever.

I like Kruger, I really do. And if he would stay for a cap-friendly deal, all the better at helping get another ring. But I just don't think signing him at the expense of Suggs is a good option here.

**RavensRule21215** · 02-10-2013, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

No, as of the first day of the league year - March 14th - they must be under the Cap and must stay under for the remainder of the league year.

Okay, thanks. (I thought that there was some sort of provision that a team could be over the cap temporarily and take a monetary penalty. But apparently not.)

**ravenjoe** · 02-10-2013, 06:13 PM

DOUBLE NYET!!!! What has Kruger proved, compared to Mr. Suggs! Suggs sets the edge better; can still pass rush with the best of them (given good health); and is a Leader, and keeps the locker room loose. No, let Kruger go, and sign Ellerbe!

**NC Raven** · 02-10-2013, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

There is still another option, albeit one the Ravens are probably not going to consider. I still think they may benefit from moving to a 4-3. Hear me out on this. We all know Cody sucks as a NT. BUT, since it's likely he's not getting cut anytime soon, why not keep him next to Ngata, but then bookend them with Suggs and Art Jones? Or McPhee or Tyson, whichever DE would be the best coming out of preseason.

So I envision this:

DL: Jones - Ngata - Cody - Suggs
LB: Upshaw - Ellerbe - McClain

It makes sense just from the perspective of D-line talent.

But I do not think that LB corps would be able to handle coverage over the middle or plays to the wide side of the field like our old 4-3 did.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-10-2013, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

There is still another option, albeit one the Ravens are probably not going to consider. I still think they may benefit from moving to a 4-3. Hear me out on this. We all know Cody sucks as a NT. BUT, since it's likely he's not getting cut anytime soon, why not keep him next to Ngata, but then bookend them with Suggs and Art Jones? Or McPhee or Tyson, whichever DE would be the best coming out of preseason.

So I envision this:

DL: Jones - Ngata - Cody - Suggs
LB: Upshaw - Ellerbe - McClain

So I'm basing this off the idea that Upshaw may never be a hot pass rusher (although I think with time he will get there too). So if Cody can't handle guards/tackles by himself, MAYBE with a guy on each side he can eat up some space or help Ngata push the middle of the pocket in. Jones may not have a great PR but on blitzing situations he could occupy the tackle and give Upshaw a shot at the QB. And we know how good Ellerbe is at timing blitzes. And if we can't keep Ellerbe, then a draft pick or whatever.

I like Kruger, I really do. And if he would stay for a cap-friendly deal, all the better at helping get another ring. But I just don't think signing him at the expense of Suggs is a good option here.

I'm not opposed to a 4-3 or that particular lineup at times, but man...that is a SLOW front 7.

**Miz89** · 02-10-2013, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

disagree on Cromartie. He's not that great. He bites on double moves worse then CW. He jsut has the ball skills to wow people and attract attention. He can't cover for shite.

I would have agreed with you prior to this year, but he really stepped up after Revis got injured.

**admartian** · 02-10-2013, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I'm not opposed to a 4-3 or that particular lineup at times, but man...that is a SLOW front 7.

Yep - teams wouldn't need to run THROUGH us, as they'd just run around us. GUys like Kaep would have an even more of a field day.

There's no question we need speed on D.

**StingerNLG** · 02-10-2013, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I'm not opposed to a 4-3 or that particular lineup at times, but man...that is a SLOW front 7.

As opposed to the slow front 7 we have now? At the very least we can be strong in the middle and let Upshaw and McClain or whoever we put there contain the sidelines with the safeties on run plays.

Its not perfect, but we spent a lot of the season getting gashed up front and not getting any push on pass plays with 4 man rushes. I don't think we can completely turn into a speed defense so why not use the players we do have/hope to keep?

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