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  1. #13
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    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option



    The read-option only works when you have a really good OL and RB. You can have a mobile QB all you want, but if you don't have a RB with good vision it won't make much of a difference.

    Frank Gore, Marshawn Lynch, and Morris are all really good vision backs that know how to follow their blockers.
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  2. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    The read-option only works when you have a really good OL and RB. You can have a mobile QB all you want, but if you don't have a RB with good vision it won't make much of a difference.

    Frank Gore, Marshawn Lynch, and Morris are all really good vision backs that know how to follow their blockers.
    Good point. Of the the three my favorite to watch is Frank Gore. The guy is an absolute technician between the tackles.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

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  3. #15
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    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Excell--
    "It's almost like somebody has to hear everything they believe from the most reputable source, before they will believe it."

    That's why I always waited when on Sunspot for old19fan's discourse on every issue....










  4. #16

    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    The only way the read option survives is if the league puts in new rules protecting QBs while running. If you look at a lot of the injuries to QBs it has usually been outside the pocket. There were a few knee injuries to QBs in the pocket and the NFL created a rule that you are not allowed to hit them in the knees or below. You also cant hit them in the head. Outside the pocket they are fair game. Defenders tee off on QBs every chance they can. Ben is guy that gets out of the pocket and extends plays. He has been hit so much that his body is starting wear down. The players in the NFL are just to big and fast to risk your QB carrying the ball on a regular basis.




  5. #17

    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Running QBs rarely win the SB. Not Cunningham, not McNabb, not Vick, not Kaepernick this year.

    The closest is maybe Rodgers? Big Ben? No one would label them running QBs, they just happen to at times make some good plays with their feet.

    Until running QBs start winning the SB I will stick with pocket passers, who have proven success in winning SBs.




  6. #18

    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    It is not as difficult to defend as Trent Dilfer would lead you to believe. He mentions a numbers game. Well, when you have a NT the caliber of Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork or Haloti Ngata (When he played NT more often), that starts to reverse that numbers game. A player of that caliber has to be double teamed. Then, you need OLBs who can set the edge. After that, if the RB isn't scorching you, it becomes a hindrance to the QB's ability to get into a throwing rhythm.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #19
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    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Running QBs rarely win the SB. Not Cunningham, not McNabb, not Vick, not Kaepernick this year.

    The closest is maybe Rodgers? Big Ben? No one would label them running QBs, they just happen to at times make some good plays with their feet.

    Until running QBs start winning the SB I will stick with pocket passers, who have proven success in winning SBs.
    Steve Young says hello.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #20

    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Steve Young says hello.
    Young's highest rushing yards in a season was 537. Oh and only 3 times did he actually play a full 16 game season in his career. Coincidence?

    537 is also generally much less than the other QBs I listed as true "running" QBs.

    CAREER HIGH RUSH YARDS IN A SEASON
    Rodgers: 356 (example of a mobile QB, but not a running QB)
    Wilson: 489
    McNabb: 629
    Kaepernick: 415 (10 starts, full season would project to around 650-700 yards)
    Newton: 741
    Griffin: 815
    Cunningham: 942
    Vick: 1039


    You think Young belongs in the same discussion with Vick, Cunningham, etc. as a "running"QB? He was mobile. I don't know that he rises to the level of these other guys though. Some of them almost double Young's career high rush yards in comparable seasons.

    I think QB types goes pocket/mobile/running. Pocket = basically no rushing. Mobile = a decent amount of rushing. Running = one of the primary elements of their game. I think Young is more in the "mobile" group than the "running" group. Similar to Rodgers.

    Even if Steve Young is deemed a running QB...after that you have guys like Elway, Brady, Manning(s), Brees, Big Ben, Rodgers, Flacco. None of those guys are running QBs. So, running QBs really don't win many SBs. If running QBs win the next 5-10 SBs, let me know.
    Last edited by bt12483; 02-19-2013 at 10:51 AM.




  9. #21
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    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Young highest rushing yards in a season was 537. Oh and 3 times did he actually play a full 16 game season.

    537 is less than the other QBs I listed.

    McNabb: 629
    Cunningham: 942
    Vick: 1039
    Kaepernick: 415 (10 starts)
    Griffin: 815

    You think Young belongs in the discussion with Vick and Cunningham and Kaepernick as a "running"QB? He was mobile. I don't know that he rises to the level of these other guys though. Some of them almost double Young's career high rush yards.
    In his day, yes, Young was considered a running QB. They had designed running plays for him. I don't see how total yardage has anything to do with it. Maybe he was not the best ever running QB or the most dynamic but he most certainly WAS a running QB.

    So yes, your original premise of "rarely" do running QB's win the Super Bowl is accurate. But it does and has happened. That was my only point.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #22
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    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    I think that when you have the conversation about letting QB's run wild or keeping them in the pocket, a lot of it has to do with the attitude about winning now verses planning the long haul. It might be that scrambling QBs are getting popular now because of the emphasis on winning right away, and not having a leash long enough to think about the future. A scrambler can put you in the play-offs right away, but drop-back passers can put you in the play-offs for 10-15 years. If an owner is going to be judging you on what you do right now, it might make sense to trade the future for some immediate success.

    Especially for a fanbase like the Redskins, that can command the arrogance and intensity of a dynasty team as long as they have one good season every 5-6 years.




  11. #23

    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Young was definitely a scrambling QB. He went through a lot trying to learn how to throw from the pocket, if I can remember correctly.

    I don't remember him running the read option though, not suggesting that anybody said he did. It wasn't really until after he made significant strides to throw better from the pocket that San Fransisco won the Super Bowl.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #24
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    Re: Cosell on running qb's: Running qb's are great but throwing from the pocket is still the best option

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Young was definitely a scrambling QB. He went through a lot trying to learn how to throw from the pocket, if I can remember correctly.

    I don't remember him running the read option though, not suggesting that anybody said he did. It wasn't really until after he made significant strides to throw better from the pocket that San Fransisco won the Super Bowl.
    Yep Young was a scrambling QB not a running QB. Much like Ben, he would make something out of nothing. But it wasn't until he developed as a pocket passer that the 49ers saw success and turned him into a HOFer.

    The read option is a good system for young QBs who haven't learn to play QB at the NFL level yet. But there's a reason that no team runs that offense for any extended about of time. Defenses will eventually catch up. Remember the craze about the wildcat a few years ago. Now no one runs it. The NFL is a copy cat league. Anything successful will be copied by other teams. Yet the read option/pistol is only run by teams with young inexperinced QBs.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




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