Webb Recovery Time and Long-Term Prospects

**Sascha** · 02-19-2013, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Well, get over it. You saw how good Chykie Brown and Corey Graham were, right? Guess what? They're both signed next year.

Chykie Brown has looked good at times, but I'm not sure he's earned my confidence yet. Hopefully he'll come on strong in his third year.

Even though we already have Webb, Smith, Graham, Brown, and Asa Jackson under contract for at least one more year, I'd feel better about that CB corps with Gorrer in it. Webb, Smith, and Jackson have all missed significant time in the last year (some of them for better reasons than others), so adding depth at CB seems really important. And considering our cap situation, we won't be able to sign any high-priced FAs. If Gorrer is still bouncing around the league, he seems like a nice solution.

**JCroUSAF** · 02-19-2013, 09:06 AM

I see both sides. I just think what you have to think about is would you rather have struggle at CB or be better at safety as least starting out. Look at the patriots with mccourty(without the injury). He was considered there best corner and he moved to safety after they signed talib. He wasn't great but wasn't terrible. I think if the ravens moved him we would get a similar result because if we cannot keep reed Webb would be a suitable replacement. Not as good as reed but better than any draft pick or FA in my opinion. On the other hand I do not want to take graham out of the nickel where he excelled. Jimmy smith may be getting his confidence back, point is either way we have depth at corner and safety will be addressed in the draft at some point

**pslholder96** · 02-19-2013, 09:14 AM

What we do and how we score in this year's draft may either accelerate Webb's transition to safety or put those thoughts on the back burner. Ozzie has said that the focus of the draft will be about improving the middle of the defense (i.e DTs, ILBs, safeties). If we get a solid safety in this year's draft we'll have the luxury of keeping Webb on the corner. I think Webb will be fine long term. He's been through this process before and knows the mental and physical demands of rehabbing this kind of injury.

**The Excellector** · 02-19-2013, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sascha

Chykie Brown has looked good at times, but I'm not sure he's earned my confidence yet. Hopefully he'll come on strong in his third year.

Even though we already have Webb, Smith, Graham, Brown, and Asa Jackson under contract for at least one more year, I'd feel better about that CB corps with Gorrer in it. Webb, Smith, and Jackson have all missed significant time in the last year (some of them for better reasons than others), so adding depth at CB seems really important. And considering our cap situation, we won't be able to sign any high-priced FAs. If Gorrer is still bouncing around the league, he seems like a nice solution.

My question, understanding where you are coming from, would be how much more Gorrer has shown you, compared to Chykie Brown?

**runrayrun27** · 02-19-2013, 10:13 AM

Everyone needs to get rid of this Danny Gorrer boner. He was an average CB at best, so is Brown.

**The Excellector** · 02-19-2013, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by runrayrun27

Everyone needs to get rid of this Danny Gorrer boner. He was an average CB at best, so is Brown.

I wouldn't say all of that. They are both young CBs. Young players need time to develop. Chykie Brown played very well during the season. However, in the playoffs, his mistakes were magnified. If the Ravens make the playoffs in 2013, do you think he would make the same mistakes?

**Tolucaraven** · 02-19-2013, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Stop bringing up Adrian Peterson as even HALFWAY relevant to this discussion. Just stop it. That dude is a freak of nature with wolverine blood, and his recovery is a huge exception, NOT the rule.

ACL's take 7-9 months to recover physically which is true of pretty much everyone. Nobody disputes that. But add another 6+ months on top of that for COMPLETE recovery, i.e. mental and emotional. When you've blown your knee out it takes a long time to get the confidence back in it, especially when you FEEL the knee creaking and straining (as scar tissue breaks up) for months and months after you're "technically" 100% physically. Just the pure reprogramming of the muscle memory takes a long, long time.

We don't really even know how long it took Webb to recover from the last one, frankly. He was terrible throughout all of 2010 mostly because he MENTALLY was not recovered, so he really got his confidence back somewhere between January 2011 and September 2011. He sustained the first ACL tear in December 2009, so you're talking about well over a year worth of recovery time.

Will it be shorter this time? Maybe, hopefully. But smart money IMO is on Webb never being 100% as a man-to-man cover corner in 2013. He will not have the recovery speed, cutting ability, and agility that were hallmarks of his game in the past. That is part of what makes a temporary move to FS a good idea... that would protect him from having to do too much cutting and running directly with receivers downfield. He would be able to use his instincts, awareness, and read-and-react skills to cover instead of being more reliant on raw athleticism.

I have been on the bandwagon of saying that Webb could be an All-Pro free safety since before he was even drafted by the Ravens. The reason is very simple: he has a prototypical safety skill-set (awareness, ability to play the ball in the air, sound tackling, instincts, etc.) All he lacks as a safety is size, which is irrelevant as he plays much bigger than his size.

He has a good cornerback skill-set as well, and because corners are more valuable than safeties he has proven that he should stay at CB long-term. But short-term, if the ACL would hold him back from playing CB at 100% in 2013, he should move to FS temporarily. That would also have the double benefit of allowing us to groom Ed Reed's long-term replacement for a year while we have a very capable fill-in for Webb's role in Corey Graham on the roster.

I agree with this statement. Webb blew out both knees in 3 years, he just might have bad knees. He blew both knees out on plays that you wouldn't think would cause a knee injury. He may be the highest paid corner and best, but it doesnt matter if you aren't on the feild. I think they move him to S. He would make a great S with his instincts and is a good tackler. Plus, in the NFL you do not need large thumper Safeties since they changed the hitting rules. I just feel more comfortable with him at S with his injury history.

**esmd** · 02-19-2013, 11:16 AM

6 games played, 11 tackles, 1 INT. Yeah, we sure miss him.

Good god. It never ceases to amaze me how some ppl fall in love with guys at the end of the roster. There are probably 10 CB's in the draft that we could get from Rounds 5-7 that are just as good or better than Gorrer. Shoot, they can probably get someone just as good as him as a UFA, since they got him as a UFA. Smh.....

http://www.nfl.com/player/dannygorrer/2507727/profile

As for moving Webb to safety. Stop! Just stop. First, this is his second ACL, so he'll have a better idea of what he can and can't do in his recovery. He also has two extra months to recover as opposed to last time. He's the best CB on the team. If you move him to safety you do it at the expense of weakening the CB position. Cary Williams is gone, so if you move Webb, your starting CB's are Jimmy Smith and Chykie Brown. Um....no. You find a safety to replace Reed, and you roll with Smith and Webb as your starters, with Pollard and Reed's replacement at S.

**Sirdowski** · 02-19-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

No, it wasn't same knee. I said that above

Durr. Thanks.

**Miz89** · 02-19-2013, 11:21 AM

I think Webb will get back to where he was and honestly, I think him tearing his knee up twice is nothing but horrible luck.

**Dade** · 02-19-2013, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Miz89

I think Webb will get back to where he was and honestly, I think him tearing his knee up twice is nothing but horrible luck.

+1

**NOLARavenFAN** · 02-19-2013, 11:35 AM

Pullin' for Webbie but we just won the SB without active........but he was around the team at all times, and I have no idea where he is as far a working out, etc. You just don't know with the Ravens....

**bmorecareful** · 02-19-2013, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by esmd

As for moving Webb to safety. Stop! Just stop. First, this is his second ACL, so he'll have a better idea of what he can and can't do in his recovery. He also has two extra months to recover as opposed to last time. He's the best CB on the team. If you move him to safety you do it at the expense of weakening the CB position. Cary Williams is gone, so if you move Webb, your starting CB's are Jimmy Smith and Chykie Brown. Um....no. You find a safety to replace Reed, and you roll with Smith and Webb as your starters, with Pollard and Reed's replacement at S.

The assumption that Webb will recover even quicker and more completely from this ACL compared to his last one is just that, an assumption, not one with much evidence to support it. The team should prepare for the worst case scenario: Webb will not be the same player in 2013 that he was from 2011 up to his injury, possibly ever. Domonique Foxworth blew out his ACL and was never the same player again. I don't believe it will happen with Webb but it's possible.

As for the strength on the roster of the CB position vs. the safety position, first of all you've forgotten Corey Graham, the Ravens' defensive MVP through the latter half of the season and playoffs. He's under contract for 2013 as a likely starter and is coming off of a Pro Bowl-caliber season where he filled Webb's exact role (starter who moves to the slot in the nickel set) with virtually NO drop-off. Across from him would be Jimmy Smith or Chykie Brown, likely Smith if he continues to grow, develop, and stay healthy. He produced well in the playoffs and was a 1st round pick for a reason. The loser of that battle becomes the nickel and Asa Jackson is the #4.

I'd say we have some strength and youth at CB, although we need to add a 5th corner to the roster if Webb is moved. Let's compare that to safety. Under contract in 2013 the Ravens have Bernard Pollard set at SS and at FS... uhhh... Christian Thompson? Omar Brown? Anthony Levine? 3 second-year players with about 5 NFL games and 15 NFL snaps between them. That is a DIRE positional crisis unless a very talented/high draft pick seizes the job in camp or they add a FA/re-sign Reed. So they have youth and depth there but no clear starter and virtually no NFL experience.

All else equal, CB is a stronger group in 2013 than safety BY FAR. Moving Webb to FS for a year leaves us with a very decent young, talented lineup at CB and stability at S. Obviously if the FO feels Christian Thompson, Omar Brown, or a draft pick is ready to start in 2013 at FS then that's great, but why not have a contingency plan in place? Webb holds down FS until he's healthy enough to move back to CB and/or one of the younger guys is ready to step in at the position.

**Tolucaraven** · 02-19-2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by esmd

6 games played, 11 tackles, 1 INT. Yeah, we sure miss him.

Good god. It never ceases to amaze me how some ppl fall in love with guys at the end of the roster. There are probably 10 CB's in the draft that we could get from Rounds 5-7 that are just as good or better than Gorrer. Shoot, they can probably get someone just as good as him as a UFA, since they got him as a UFA. Smh.....

http://www.nfl.com/player/dannygorrer/2507727/profile

As for moving Webb to safety. Stop! Just stop. First, this is his second ACL, so he'll have a better idea of what he can and can't do in his recovery. He also has two extra months to recover as opposed to last time. He's the best CB on the team. If you move him to safety you do it at the expense of weakening the CB position. Cary Williams is gone, so if you move Webb, your starting CB's are Jimmy Smith and Chykie Brown. Um....no. You find a safety to replace Reed, and you roll with Smith and Webb as your starters, with Pollard and Reed's replacement at S.

Not to dig, but are you a football expert with a crystal ball? I have no idea what they are going to do with Webb or the CB position, but him tearing bothACL's on non contact plays in 2 out of 3 years may indicate he has genetic bad knees. I hope not. But, just my opinion, I hate to lose him another year and playing FS would be safer for both him and the team at this juncture. I could go either way, but one of your higher paid players is not any good to you if he is on IR or impaired.

**Thrall** · 02-19-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Well, get over it. You saw how good Chykie Brown and Corey Graham were, right? Guess what? They're both signed next year.

Furthermore, why move one of the top young corner backs in the NFL to safety? He'll be fine. He isn't the first guy to deal with multiple knee injuries. He won't be the last. Everyone keeps saying to move Webb to safety, but I'll never understand why. Part of the reason why Webb is so good is because he can play nickel effectively. So, in nickel sets - if he is a safety - what are the Ravens supposed to do? Drop him down to nickel and put someone else in at safety? No.

IMO, the only person in the corner unit who might be a decent candidate to drop back to free safety is Jimmy Smith.

Not that I'm advocating this, but didn't Corey Graham play some safety for da Bears ?

**Coastergenius** · 02-19-2013, 11:53 AM

Webb has a high salary, low bonus contract with a big roster bonus coming up soon. Does it really make sense for us to pay top 5 CB money for a player that may never be the same, and we were able to win a SB without?

**JAB1985** · 02-19-2013, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Thrall

Not that I'm advocating this, but didn't Corey Graham play some safety for da Bears ?

yes, and hed sooner be the option to go back than webb if it came to that.

**Tolucaraven** · 02-19-2013, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Coastergenius

Webb has a high salary, low bonus contract with a big roster bonus coming up soon. Does it really make sense for us to pay top 5 CB money for a player that may never be the same, and we were able to win a SB without?

That is a very good point. Good post.

**pslholder96** · 02-19-2013, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Coastergenius

Webb has a high salary, low bonus contract with a big roster bonus coming up soon. Does it really make sense for us to pay top 5 CB money for a player that may never be the same, and we were able to win a SB without?

So what exactly are you suggesting? Restructure his contract?? Wouldn't it be best to wait and see if he regains his form after next season?

**Jayc00** · 02-19-2013, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by esmd

As for moving Webb to safety. Stop! Just stop. First, this is his second ACL, so he'll have a better idea of what he can and can't do in his recovery. He also has two extra months to recover as opposed to last time. He's the best CB on the team. If you move him to safety you do it at the expense of weakening the CB position. Cary Williams is gone, so if you move Webb, your starting CB's are Jimmy Smith and Chykie Brown. Um....no. You find a safety to replace Reed, and you roll with Smith and Webb as your starters, with Pollard and Reed's replacement at S.

I'm tired of hearing about that suggestion myself.