Mark Clayton and Torrey Smith

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 02-21-2013, 04:33 PM

Torrey Smith ran a 4.43 40 yard dash. Mark Clayton ran a 4.41.

How does that happen? Watching them on the field, Torrey Smith looks 10 times faster. Torrey looks like he runs a sub 4.3, but Clayton looked like he ran a 4.5 or so. He was barely any faster than an old Derrick Mason.

**4G63** · 02-21-2013, 04:38 PM

I've always thought 40 yard dash numbers can be misleading for WR's. Jerry Rice ran a 4.71 and I don't think that ended up hurting him.

**The Excellector** · 02-21-2013, 04:41 PM

You can actually train specifically for the 40 yard dash, in somewhat similar fashion to a track meet. Stories are often told of players who specifically mold their running technique to gain a faster time in the dash. However, that doesn't nearly translate to the football field as much.

There are more variables in play, on the field: The pads, the contact, etc.

**jonboy79** · 02-21-2013, 04:43 PM

it could easily jsut be that Torrey Smith is a poor starter in that scenario. As was jsut said, it's sort of like track training to get off to a good start.

**The Excellector** · 02-21-2013, 04:45 PM

Torrey's specialty seems to be his acceleration more than his pure speed.

**lobachevsky** · 02-21-2013, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Torrey's specialty seems to be his acceleration more than his pure speed.

How many time have we seen Torrey seemingly blanketed by a secondary when he kicks in the overdrive & blows right past them? And once the DBs learn from bitter experience & give that top gear the respect it deserves, all the underneath routes open up.

**RavenScallywag** · 02-21-2013, 05:07 PM

Jerry Rice, suprisingly, was talking about the 40 times today at the Combine (according to Scott and Jeremy). Said that taking a 40 time isn't a good indicator of things like "can a WR beat a jam off the line and accelerate downfield to get open?"

With Torrey, you can see that he has a tremendous 2nd gear. He'll be running full speed, spot the ball in the air, and suddenly his speed jumps to catch up to the ball.

You also have to remember...Clayton with Joe only was 2008 and 2009. Those were the prime years of the Cam-cuffs, Joe wasn't doing anything like he is now with Torrey. That's not to say that Torrey isn't a superior WR, but I don't think you can showcase Clayton's speed as much when Joe's passes were mostly out patterns.

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 02-21-2013, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

Jerry Rice, suprisingly, was talking about the 40 times today at the Combine (according to Scott and Jeremy). Said that taking a 40 time isn't a good indicator of things like "can a WR beat a jam off the line and accelerate downfield to get open?"

With Torrey, you can see that he has a tremendous 2nd gear. He'll be running full speed, spot the ball in the air, and suddenly his speed jumps to catch up to the ball.

You also have to remember...Clayton with Joe only was 2008 and 2009. Those were the prime years of the Cam-cuffs, Joe wasn't doing anything like he is now with Torrey. That's not to say that Torrey isn't a superior WR, but I don't think you can showcase Clayton's speed as much when Joe's passes were mostly out patterns.

Good point. To be honest, it would be very interesting to see how Mark Clayton circa 2005/2006 would fare in this offense next year. Though it's pretty inexplicable how he got washed up after two seasons.

**RavenScallywag** · 02-21-2013, 05:19 PM

He had a pretty horrid knee injury. Broken patella. It's pretty gruesome to google it...

**leachisabeast** · 02-21-2013, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

Jerry Rice, suprisingly, was talking about the 40 times today at the Combine (according to Scott and Jeremy). Said that taking a 40 time isn't a good indicator of things like "can a WR beat a jam off the line and accelerate downfield to get open?"

With Torrey, you can see that he has a tremendous 2nd gear. He'll be running full speed, spot the ball in the air, and suddenly his speed jumps to catch up to the ball.

You also have to remember...Clayton with Joe only was 2008 and 2009. Those were the prime years of the Cam-cuffs, Joe wasn't doing anything like he is now with Torrey. That's not to say that Torrey isn't a superior WR, but I don't think you can showcase Clayton's speed as much when Joe's passes were mostly out patterns.

Very true.

There are hardly any easy throws for Joe under Cam, but that also worked both ways for the WRs, there were barely any easy routes to run in Cams offense either, no easy catches, no nothing.

**HoustonRaven** · 02-21-2013, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37

Good point. To be honest, it would be very interesting to see how Mark Clayton circa 2005/2006 would fare in this offense next year. Though it's pretty inexplicable how he got washed up after two seasons.

It's totally explainable.

He shredded is patellar tendon.

**PurpleApocalypse37** · 02-21-2013, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

It's totally explainable.

He shredded is patellar tendon.

Weird, I don't remember much about that. How many games did he miss? I remember him getting so much hate, which shouldn't have happened if he had a bad injury. Are you talking about the injury while on the Rams?

**Ravenswintitle** · 02-21-2013, 05:47 PM

Cam

**HoustonRaven** · 02-21-2013, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by PurpleApocalypse37

Weird, I don't remember much about that. How many games did he miss? I remember him getting so much hate, which shouldn't have happened if he had a bad injury. Are you talking about the injury while on the Rams?

Hasn't seen the field since.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...atella-tendon/

**The Excellector** · 02-21-2013, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

How many time have we seen Torrey seemingly blanketed by a secondary when he kicks in the overdrive & blows right past them? And once the DBs learn from bitter experience & give that top gear the respect it deserves, all the underneath routes open up.

That is why we see the safeties so deep on his side. When Jim Caldwell took over, he did a better job of utilizing the shorter routes and even using some more of the intermediate in routes that cut the safety off, before he can get to the play.

Torrey did a better job this year, of fighting through the jam. If he gets a little more upper body strength, he is going to be even more dangerous. Then, with Caldwell continuing as the OC, you have to believe that some of those slants and hooks we saw in Indianapolis will be used more. Especially, with Torrey Smith, as they set up the deeper routes (Slant and go, stutter and go).

**StingerNLG** · 02-21-2013, 06:12 PM

Mark Clayton was a bust to me long before he left the Ravens. From dropped passes against the Patriots to never being able to get open even though he was fast. He was a first round pick that never worked out.

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**The Excellector** · 02-21-2013, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Mark Clayton was a bust to me long before he left the Ravens. From dropped passes against the Patriots to never being able to get open even though he was fast. He was a first round pick that never worked out.

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He never seemed to be able to handle physical CBs and that is something Jerry Rice talked about, apparently, in regards to the forty yard dash. Whenever you saw Clayton have to make a contested catch, you rarely saw him make it. He either couldn't shake the press coverage or was too concerned with the contact near the point of the catch, it just seemed like unless he shook the coverage, he was not going to catch the ball. As you eluded to, he had a hard enough time catching some of the easier passes.

**rla20cpa** · 02-21-2013, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

Jerry Rice, suprisingly, was talking about the 40 times today at the Combine (according to Scott and Jeremy). Said that taking a 40 time isn't a good indicator of things like "can a WR beat a jam off the line and accelerate downfield to get open?"

With Torrey, you can see that he has a tremendous 2nd gear. He'll be running full speed, spot the ball in the air, and suddenly his speed jumps to catch up to the ball.

You also have to remember...Clayton with Joe only was 2008 and 2009. Those were the prime years of the Cam-cuffs, Joe wasn't doing anything like he is now with Torrey. That's not to say that Torrey isn't a superior WR, but I don't think you can showcase Clayton's speed as much when Joe's passes were mostly out patterns.

Agreed. It's almost as if DBs aren't impressed with his 40 time and play him accordingly without accounting for his acceleration. I remember the (2011) 90-yard drive against Pitt how he, inexplicably, got behind the DBs twice in the last 40 seconds.

**Purpleguy** · 02-21-2013, 06:27 PM

You can run a 2 second 40, but if you can't get off the 5 yard bump and can't catch balls that hit you in the hands then you won't amount to much in this league.