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  1. #37

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide



    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    They have so much friggin talent from the past two home run drafts that they might be good by default despite having the worst owner in pro sports.
    It is all going to come down to Dalton. Is he the real deal or not? Green can make any QB look better. Dalton goes into a shell a lot from the games I've seen - in the late season game at Philly (when their playoff hopes were on the line) he was horrible, and two years in a row vs. HOU he has been horrible.

    And he still has to prove he can beat BAL and PITT. In general his games against both us and PITT have been bad.




  2. #38

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    And now Big Ben is done. He saves $3M against the cap in 2013.




  3. #39

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Their record last year had nothing to do with the cap.
    That's a ridiculous statement. It had EVERYTHING to do with their salary cap situation. Do you think the Steelers had any worse injury situation last year than the Ravens? Of course not, but they were out of the playoffs while the Ravens were hoisting the trophy because of one thing---depth. Why were the Steelers so lacking in depth? Well, ask yourself.... what free agents did the Steelers add last year? Jericho Cotchery? Plexico Burress? Those are the only two who comes to mind. Every year, in order to stay good, you have to replenish the roster with youth. The Steelers have failed to do this for years now. When their starters go down, they have nobody to step up. The Ravens lose Lardarius Webb for the season and Jimmy Smith for 3-5 weeks down the stretch. They lean on Mr. Reliable Cary Williams while adding Corey Graham and Chykie Brown to the mix. Graham plays like a Pro Bowler and Brown was at least semi-decent for most of his time as the nickleback. Meanwhile, the Steelers lose their best corner, Ike Taylor, for four games, and who is next up to get snaps as the nickle.....Josh Victorian. Yes, the same Victorian who wasn't even one of our top 8 corners in training camp.

    Their inability to add free agents is a MASSIVE reason why they couldn't finish the season. Think the Ravens would have even sniffed the AFC championship game without Jacoby Jones and Corey Graham? Yes, both were unexpected steals who played at a higher level than ever before, but the bottom line is that the Ravens had room for these two guys because they didn't make the mistake of the Steelers in trying to keep every single aging free agent to the point that it hamstrings you from signing younger players in free agency.

    Combine that with 2-3 bad drafts and it's a nasty recipe.




  4. #40
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Their record last year had nothing to do with the cap.
    True, it will catch up on them soon though. They better start drafting better players.




  5. #41
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    That's a ridiculous statement. It had EVERYTHING to do with their salary cap situation. Do you think the Steelers had any worse injury situation last year than the Ravens? Of course not, but they were out of the playoffs while the Ravens were hoisting the trophy because of one thing---depth. Why were the Steelers so lacking in depth? Well, ask yourself.... what free agents did the Steelers add last year? Jericho Cotchery? Plexico Burress? Those are the only two who comes to mind. Every year, in order to stay good, you have to replenish the roster with youth. The Steelers have failed to do this for years now. When their starters go down, they have nobody to step up. The Ravens lose Lardarius Webb for the season and Jimmy Smith for 3-5 weeks down the stretch. They lean on Mr. Reliable Cary Williams while adding Corey Graham and Chykie Brown to the mix. Graham plays like a Pro Bowler and Brown was at least semi-decent for most of his time as the nickleback. Meanwhile, the Steelers lose their best corner, Ike Taylor, for four games, and who is next up to get snaps as the nickle.....Josh Victorian. Yes, the same Victorian who wasn't even one of our top 8 corners in training camp.

    Their inability to add free agents is a MASSIVE reason why they couldn't finish the season. Think the Ravens would have even sniffed the AFC championship game without Jacoby Jones and Corey Graham? Yes, both were unexpected steals who played at a higher level than ever before, but the bottom line is that the Ravens had room for these two guys because they didn't make the mistake of the Steelers in trying to keep every single aging free agent to the point that it hamstrings you from signing younger players in free agency.

    Combine that with 2-3 bad drafts and it's a nasty recipe.




  6. #42
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    https://twitter.com/EdBouchette/stat...60157257887744

    #steelers have complered restructuring Ben Roethlisberger's contract




  7. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    True, it will catch up on them soon though. They better start drafting better players.
    Agreed there.

    Their drafts since Tomlins arrival have been rather average.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #44

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Wait and see, if they don't make post season this year, the rooney's will be highly upset. Steelers think their past history means they'll be good again is just wishful thinking. Ben hasn't played a full season in years. Who's their running back? Oline might get better if they stay healthy long enough. And, by keeping the same players, LeBeau, and same schemes on defense, don't you think teams have a good idea on who is the weak link on defense? Is Lebeau their cam cameron now? Hope they are competitive, would suck(not really) to beat them all the time. Yea,I know they beat the Ravens with batch, but cam is gone and the Ravens defense can compete when they have the main people on the field. Still Wacco for Flacco!




  9. #45

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Every year, this is the story and every year, they find a way to make it work.

    The locker room tension / back stabbing is far more of a destructive issue for them than the cap.
    Well, one could argue that finishing 8-8 isn't exactly "finding a way to make it work"

    Also, the "year-in-year-out, we hear this same story" angle isn't accurate either - the Steelers have NEVER let themselves get into this kind of cap-jail previously. PGH had historically been ruthlessly efficient in identifying key core players, and letting the rest of their somewhere around 30-ish, expensive FAs walk (see Kirkland, Burress, Faneca, Porter, Foote, etc).

    Starting somewhere around 08-09, they switched gears, trying to resign most of these type of guys on the roster. Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Keisel, Harrison and Clark - all on the wrong side of 30, and all re-signed in recent years to expensive, long-term contracts. In previous years, they would have identified one or two of those guys (Harrison, Clark) to resign and pair with their young talent, while trusting in their ability to replace those departing FAs thru good drafting, and still maintaining cap integrity.

    Could they still find a way to extricate themselves, while remaining competitive? Time will tell. But I think the odds are against them. And I think it's very much a mistake to characterize this as some version of "business-as-usual" for the Steelers - for them, this is very much a new dynamic we're dealing with.




  10. #46
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    I cannot believe that the Steelers will come unglued or have all of the wheels fall off the cart simply because the organization has not given any basis to believe it in recent history. Ben looked like a world-beater earlier in the season. They have had low spots in the draft and seem to be able to pull talent together - as any good organization has to do. They play the type of football and handle the FO issues that make a team one that hangs around. There is not one sure-fire way to be competitive in the NFL, so regardless of the numbers I just cannot see them being a bottom-feeder.

    If they fall apart, I see it more related to injuries. Part of that may be the issue of depth, but you cannot really say that a young player is good until he has to step up and fill the spot. A Special-Teamer is not as good as the starter, just as the Practice Player is not as good as the Special Teamer that has now moved up. You hope your team finds a "diamond-in-the-rough", but unless it is a high pick that is supposed to be a starter (and can stay healthy) it is too much to expect you can stock the roster with strength everywhere. A good organization can find a way to make the Cap work with competitive players. The coaching also has to adjust the game plans based on that shift in talent or it is doomed.

    Everybody starts at 0-0. I expect that the Steelers will be in the fight. I would like to think otherwise, but I do not see the evidence to support it.
    Captain Offense




  11. #47

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Okay, so after Brown, Woodley, Timmons, Heyward, who else?

    Decastro, Pouncey, Emmanuel Sanders, Redman, Dwyer, Cortez Allen are the only ones who come to mind under the age of 30 who are any good. That's not a core, that's about 40% of a core.

    Look at the Ravens core under 30. Flacco (28), Pierce (23), Rice (26), Torrey (24), Yanda (29), Oher (27), Osemele (24), Jacoby (29, not sure his long term probabilities, but he's still under contract) Pitta (28), Ngata (29), McPhee (24), Webb (27), Graham (28), Pollard (28), Jimmy Smith (25), Art Jones (27), Upshaw (23), McClellan (27). I'm not even counting guys like Gradkowski, Doss, Bynes, Tyson, Jah Reid, and Chykie Brown, who might step up into prominent roles in the near future or guys still in their 20s, who aren't that great (Jameel, Dickson, Cody).

    The Steelers and Ravens really aren't comparable in terms of young talent right now. Also, keep in mind that the list above didn't make mention of Kruger or Ellerbe, one of whom is likely to be back. The Steelers are faced with losing almost every significant Free Agent because the guys currently under contract are too expensive.
    There's no disputing that the Ravens have a far better young core of players than the Steelers. I might quibble a bit with your placement of a few guys on that list--Oher, Pitta, Jacoby, Graham, and Art Jones are only under contract 1 more year, Ngata is way closer to the end of his career than its prime, etc--but there's no disputing that our core looks better than their's.

    The Ravens are a better team on paper and I would give them the edge over the next few years, but the problem I have is the hand-waving and glib pronouncement that they're no longer contenders. At this point, the Steelers are definitely still playoff contenders.

    The AFC right now has Baltimore, New England, Denver, and Houston as division front-runners. Then you probably have about 4 teams fighting for the wildcard spots... and I can't see the Steelers not being one of them along with Indy and Cincy. If the AFC were stronger top-to-bottom like the NFC is they might not be, and there could definitely be surprise teams next year like KC, Cleveland, or Miami, but as I project it now the Steelers are in the mix for the playoffs at a minimum. People are underrating how much better they'll be next year simply because their injury situation (like our's) was SO much worse than average this year, that just regressing to the mean will be a major improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    When was Decastro up? He really only played the first three weeks of the season before tearing up his knee.
    Actually he played 4 games with 3 starts, all in December, after recovering from the knee injury. I'm relying on the words of others when I say "up and down," I haven't watched myself, but apparently he was starting to come on as a run blocker despite continuing to not play well in pass protection (3 sacks in 3 starts.) 2012 was definitely a lost season for him, and he could be on his way to a very mediocre career, for all we know. I just REALLY have a hard time seeing it considering how good he was in college... I, like many others, basically had him graded as a can't-miss coming out of Stanford. Of course, in the draft plenty of can't-miss guys end up well wide of the mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    In my humble opinion, I think there is a far greater chance they go 4-12 than 12-4, particularly given the ascension of Cincy and Cleveland.
    12-4 definitely looks lofty. 4-12 looks pretty much equally unlikely, though. Here's their 2013-2014 non-divisional opponents:

    Home - Buffalo, Miami, Chicago, Detroit, Tennessee
    Away - New England, New York Jets, Green Bay, Oakland, Minnesota

    At worst, say the Steelers are swept by Baltimore and split with Cincy and Cleveland. I don't see them losing to Buffalo, Detroit, or Tennessee at home, and let's say they split with Miami and Chicago. They'll beat the Jets and Raiders on the road in all likelihood but lose to New England, Green Bay, and Minnesota.

    That's 8-8, and I've been conservative--they could easily snatch one here and one there to get to 10 wins. Sure, they could drop a few they're supposed to win and go 6-10, but is that really a LOT more likely than 10-6? I really don't think so. I said it before and I'll say it again, they're going to be right around the 9-7 range or so, and that's enough to be in the playoff hunt.




  12. #48

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Well, one could argue that finishing 8-8 isn't exactly "finding a way to make it work"

    Also, the "year-in-year-out, we hear this same story" angle isn't accurate either - the Steelers have NEVER let themselves get into this kind of cap-jail previously. PGH had historically been ruthlessly efficient in identifying key core players, and letting the rest of their somewhere around 30-ish, expensive FAs walk (see Kirkland, Burress, Faneca, Porter, Foote, etc).

    Starting somewhere around 08-09, they switched gears, trying to resign most of these type of guys on the roster. Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Keisel, Harrison and Clark - all on the wrong side of 30, and all re-signed in recent years to expensive, long-term contracts. In previous years, they would have identified one or two of those guys (Harrison, Clark) to resign and pair with their young talent, while trusting in their ability to replace those departing FAs thru good drafting, and still maintaining cap integrity.

    Could they still find a way to extricate themselves, while still remaining somewhat competitive? Time will tell. But I think the odds are against them. And I think it's very much a mistake to characterize this as some version of "business-as-usual" for the Steelers - for them, this is a new dynamic we're dealing with.
    Bingo. I was going to bring this up as well. The Steelers of 1995-2006 or 07 were a franchise that accepted that they couldn't keep everyone. In fact, they were vultured more than anyone else in the league. They kept some. They lost quite a few as well. They largely stayed at or near the top of the AFC for quite a while, despite very mediocre quarterback play. Had the late 90s/early 2000s Steelers had a Roethlisberger, they'd have at least one more Lombardi in their trophy case prior to their 2005 win. I firmly believe that. Somewhere along the line, they shifted philosophies into a far more irrational cap approach. Look at Willie Colon's contract for a second and tell me if a franchise like the Pats or the Ravens would ever do that.




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