VONTA LEACH: Is he a MUST KEEP?

**The Excellector** · 03-05-2013, 07:42 AM

It's not only the physical dominance that they display on the field. It is the mentality of toughness and resiliency against more physical defenses that Anquan Boldin and Vontae Leach bring to the locker room. San Fransisco, for example, came in thinking that they could physically dominate the Ravens offense and that doing so would equate to a victory. As it turned out, They couldn't do that, thanks to the presence of those two, and it set up the Ravens ability to not worry about that, and execute.

He might not be in on every play, but that is an added dimension that you lose if he's gone. With him there, you can still run your I-formation and your goalline effectiveness remains. You can stand up to more physically imposing defenses and you can still crunch some clock late in games. Those are all valuable assets to an offense.

If you lose Leach, you lose a dimension. Not necessarily the ability to run the ball, since the Ravens did well running the ball out of lighter packages, but I think you understand where I am coming from

**AirFlacco** · 03-05-2013, 04:12 PM

Denver thought the same thing as SF and couldn't do it but Matt from the Carroll County Times was on 105.7 during the 3 pm hour and said Leach's playing time decreased this year by 25% or more as Ravens went to 3 WR sets, somebody has to come out and that was Leach. So since his playing time was diminished the Ravens might not be able to justify his salary. I've heard others on radio say about the same thing. I personally want him but if it's between Boldin and Leach, then Leach walks.

Matt also said Joe's contract makes it possible to keep Boldin. So if Ozzie can keep Ellerbe and Boldin after this contract it will be a big coup.

**srobert96** · 03-05-2013, 04:20 PM

I read the Q&A in the Baltimore Sun with the guy from PFF and he was saying that Caldwell favored three wr sets and less use of a traditional fullback. The Ravens need every dime they can get to sure up the LT spot, ILB, and Safety spot. Fullback is a luxury they cannot afford to spend on. Under Cam it was a necessity. The team may also need to look at wrs depending on what Caldwell's thoughts are on the young guys.

**The Excellector** · 03-05-2013, 05:48 PM

Cut Jacoby Jones.

**kronusthebonus** · 03-05-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Cut Jacoby Jones.

Blasphemy.

**CrowMST3k** · 03-05-2013, 06:00 PM

How hard is it to draft a fullback that can make adequate blocks for one of the best RBs in the game? Leech is certainly expendable.

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**The Excellector** · 03-05-2013, 06:12 PM

How hard is it for find a FB that can put Patrick Willis on his back?

Pretty hard.

**Haloti92** · 03-05-2013, 06:24 PM

If we keep him, we should use him more on 1st down pass plays (actually throw it to him 2-3 times per game). But I suspect he will be a cap casualty.

**ballhawk** · 03-05-2013, 06:28 PM

Sometimes it felt like Cameron would develop an entire game plan just to get Leach a few 7-8 yard receptions in the flat each game. It was one of Cam's ways of proving how smart he was. I kid...but seriously, Cameron was the one who pushed to bring Leach in. With Cameron out, I think Leach is soon to follow. As has been mentioned, Caldwell doesn't have much use for a FB, esp at that price. We have 2 awesome tailbacks and an all world QB. That money would be better served investing in a WR (boldin or Jones extension) or a LT.

**sandiegosean** · 03-05-2013, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

The 49ers would pay him as much IMO. Their offense is perfect for a guy like him.

They already have Bobby Boucher Walker in that role, and they love him.

**AirFlacco** · 03-05-2013, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Cut Jacoby Jones.

I"m sure that was sarcasm.

**Ravenswintitle** · 04-05-2013, 07:55 AM

Would the Ravens take a late pick and use it on a guy like Kyle Juszcyk? They could get him on Saturday and see if he could potentially fill the FB role (if not this year, next).

Heard Pat and Tim raving about this dude and how he plowed people down at the Senior bowl. Also a good receiver. I don't know much about him

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=FB

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1683145/kyle-juszczyk

Kyle Juszczyk from Harvard is an ideal H-back/fullback candidate. He has been impressive as a lead blocker on the inside run game and has decleated a number of linebackers in the run drills. He is a fine receiver out of the backfield or as a wing has been excellent all week. He has soft hands, runs good routes and is physical after the catch. The 49ers run a lot of two- and three-tight sets and a number of teams are studying that offense. Juszczyk would be a great fit for that type of offense. - Pat Kirwan, CBSSports.com

**JAB1985** · 04-05-2013, 08:07 AM

No, no he is not.

Ive said this multiple times now, the difference between the best FB and a guy on somebodys practice squad isnt that much different because frankly there arent a lot of team employing them, so some of the better talent isnt even making a roster. Theres just not a lot of value there, and hes making over a million more than the next highest paid at the position. I guarantee we can find an acceptable replacement simply by UDFA after the draft let alone surfing the PSs or FAs or even the draft itself.

**GOTA** · 04-05-2013, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Would the Ravens take a late pick and use it on a guy like Kyle Juszcyk? They could get him on Saturday and see if he could potentially fill the FB role (if not this year, next).

Heard Pat and Tim raving about this dude and how he plowed people down at the Senior bowl. Also a good receiver. I don't know much about him

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=FB

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1683145/kyle-juszczyk

We were talking about him on this board after the Senior Bowl. He was very impressive. It would be pretty cool to lose 1 Harvard guy in Birk and sign another Harvard guy in Juszcyk. The Harvard-Ravens pipeline tradition has begun!

**LukeDaniel** · 04-05-2013, 08:32 AM

Threads like this are really frustrating to me. How many times are we going to beat the same f-ing dead horse, guys? How many thousands of posts have we already committed to this topic spread over hundreds of threads?

Let's all this nonsense of Leach being a "cap casualty". A cap casualty typically takes on one of two shapes. It's either a player released early in free agency in order to make collective room for a team to attack free agency....or....it's a player released later in free agency in order to make room for a specific player. Leach has already cleared through the first stage of that and appears close to clearing the second. The Ravens are likely all but done in free agency at this point.

I think the only major additions we can expect would be a guy like McKinnie, who is really the only decent option at LT left on the market. If the Ravens did indeed sign McKinnie, I would be shocked if it's for anything more than a $3m hit towards our 2013 cap. That would still leave us about $1.6 under the cap, enough room to handle our rookie class. Plus, we would have the Pollard money after June 1st if we wanted to pursue a later-cut free agent (veteran WR or LB possibly).

The general idea that we would need to cut Leach in order to free up money for free agency is flawed IMO. There aren't any "splash" type players left in free agency that would use up the remaining cap space that we have. I don't see the Ravens just randomly cutting Leach for the purpose of freeing up that $3m unless their is a specific purpose for that money, which just doesn't appear likely at this moment.

Leach's strengths might be devalued a bit in today's game, but he is still one of the most efficient players in the NFL today. He is the Tom Brady/Calvin Johnson/Adrian Peterson of fullbacks. Is that efficient of a player, operating at fullback position, worth a $4.33 cap hit? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that's relevant though. The Ravens clearly see themselves as a better team both on the field and off with him on the roster, and they aren't going to cut him or even ask for a restructure, unless there is a critical need for his cap space. That likelihood looks less likely by each day.

**Ravenswintitle** · 04-05-2013, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

Threads like this are really frustrating to me. How many times are we going to beat the same f-ing dead horse, guys? How many thousands of posts have we already committed to this topic spread over hundreds of threads?

This thread is specifically about Leach. If you don't want to read it, don't read it.

**GOTA** · 04-05-2013, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

Threads like this are really frustrating to me. How many times are we going to beat the same f-ing dead horse, guys? How many thousands of posts have we already committed to this topic spread over hundreds of threads?

Let's all this nonsense of Leach being a "cap casualty". A cap casualty typically takes on one of two shapes. It's either a player released early in free agency in order to make collective room for a team to attack free agency....or....it's a player released later in free agency in order to make room for a specific player. Leach has already cleared through the first stage of that and appears close to clearing the second. The Ravens are likely all but done in free agency at this point.

I think the only major additions we can expect would be a guy like McKinnie, who is really the only decent option at LT left on the market. If the Ravens did indeed sign McKinnie, I would be shocked if it's for anything more than a $3m hit towards our 2013 cap. That would still leave us about $1.6 under the cap, enough room to handle our rookie class. Plus, we would have the Pollard money after June 1st if we wanted to pursue a later-cut free agent (veteran WR or LB possibly).

The general idea that we would need to cut Leach in order to free up money for free agency is flawed IMO. There aren't any "splash" type players left in free agency that would use up the remaining cap space that we have. I don't see the Ravens just randomly cutting Leach for the purpose of freeing up that $3m unless their is a specific purpose for that money, which just doesn't appear likely at this moment.

Leach's strengths might be devalued a bit in today's game, but he is still one of the most efficient players in the NFL today. He is the Tom Brady/Calvin Johnson/Adrian Peterson of fullbacks. Is that efficient of a player, operating at fullback position, worth a $4.33 cap hit? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that's relevant though. The Ravens clearly see themselves as a better team both on the field and off with him on the roster, and they aren't going to cut him or even ask for a restructure, unless there is a critical need for his cap space. That likelihood looks less likely by each day.

This thread is over a month old. It's not going over the same old topic because it was around when it was first discussed.

**Ravenswintitle** · 04-05-2013, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

We were talking about him on this board after the Senior Bowl. He was very impressive. It would be pretty cool to lose 1 Harvard guy in Birk and sign another Harvard guy in Juszcyk. The Harvard-Ravens pipeline tradition has begun!

If they're going to continue to use a FB in this offense, and I think Harb's wants one, then it would be awesome to pick this guy up. Could probably get him with a 6th, maybe even 7th

**bmorecareful** · 04-05-2013, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Would the Ravens take a late pick and use it on a guy like Kyle Juszcyk? They could get him on Saturday and see if he could potentially fill the FB role (if not this year, next).

Heard Pat and Tim raving about this dude and how he plowed people down at the Senior bowl. Also a good receiver. I don't know much about him

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2013&genpos=FB

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1683145/kyle-juszczyk

One of my favorite players in the whole draft. Very good athlete with plenty of power and physicality to lead block between the tackles, and he's only going to get better as he learns and grows in the fullback position. In the passing game he's a second tight end--VERY soft hands and underrated run after the catch ability. I think the Ravens need to draft him. He'd be a downgrade on Leach as a pure run-blocker, at least initially, but an upgrade in the passing game.

**Real Fan Dan** · 04-05-2013, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

Leach's strengths might be devalued a bit in today's game, but he is still one of the most efficient players in the NFL today. He is the Tom Brady/Calvin Johnson/Adrian Peterson of fullbacks. Is that efficient of a player, operating at fullback position, worth a $4.33 cap hit? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think that's relevant though. The Ravens clearly see themselves as a better team both on the field and off with him on the roster, and they aren't going to cut him or even ask for a restructure, unless there is a critical need for his cap space. That likelihood looks less likely by each day.

I agree with your reasoning here. If they do in fact have to cut him to make room for a player they feel they need more, then I sure hope a team like Cleveland doesn't pick him up. I'd hate to have to play against that guy twice a year. I agree we are a better team with Mr. Leach than we are without him, provided he doesn't keep us from getting a player we really need.