Should the Ravens draft a WR with one of their pick?

**JoeWedra** · 03-05-2013, 10:18 AM

Here is my take for RussellStreetReport:
http://russellstreetreport.com/kidz-...ts-for-ravens/

Please comment on the article and on the thread about what you think.

Thanks guys!

**Paintballguy** · 03-05-2013, 10:23 AM

No Tavon Austin?

**BigPlayReceiver** · 03-05-2013, 10:28 AM

Nice job, youngster.
I'll be sure to pick it apart sometime after lunch

**jonboy79** · 03-05-2013, 10:30 AM

If Austin is available in the mid-late 20's, absolutely... outside of that? pass...

**JAB1985** · 03-05-2013, 10:38 AM

i dont think theres a round 1 talent in this draft, even the golden boy Tavon Austin doesnt interest me for more than a 2nd (our last second). Honestly, I think the greatest value at WR is Hunter and Rodgers. Id take either in the 2nd but again im not sure its worth moving up for him, especially if Rodgers/Hunter or some of these others are still on the board. I do think we come away with a WR, but not in the first two rounds. Id be surprised if Hunter, Rodgers or Hopkins will be there at the end of two. If we dont draft a WR, that tells you how the team feels about Thompson, Streeter and Reed/Williams. Swope is intriguing to me. I think hes got some value but again, id have a similar 3rd round grade on him.

**CharmCityCrab** · 03-05-2013, 10:51 AM

Assuming we have the cap room to keep Boldin and Jones, I think we have much bigger needs to address in the first few rounds of the draft. Smith-Boldin-Jones-Doss-Williams plus maybe a late round pick and a rookie free agent to push the last two guys for jobs in camp will be fine.

**JoeWedra** · 03-05-2013, 11:06 AM

I don't think Austin will fall. That's the reasoning behind that. Thanks for te support, fellow Ravens Nation!

**BcRaven** · 03-05-2013, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab

... Smith-Boldin-Jones-Doss-Williams...

Don't forget Deonte Thompson and Tommy Streeter too... Bc

**bmorecareful** · 03-05-2013, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab

Assuming we have the cap room to keep Boldin and Jones, I think we have much bigger needs to address in the first few rounds of the draft. Smith-Boldin-Jones-Doss-Williams plus maybe a late round pick and a rookie free agent to push the last two guys for jobs in camp will be fine.

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Don't forget Deonte Thompson and Tommy Streeter too... Bc

I disagree pretty strongly with this line of thinking. We have a need at WR both short and long-term. Boldin is old and if he's not extended he'll only be here one more year. Jacoby is a part-time 3rd WR at best if he's the full-time return specialist. Of the top 3 only Torrey Smith is a certain commodity and he's a very good #2, not a #1.

Beyond those 3 on the depth chart you're into very questionable territory. I was very high on Doss when he was drafted, but based on what he put on tape last year I am no longer high on him at all. He was fully healthy this past season and split the #3 WR job w/Jacoby, and Joe often looked his way when he was on the field, but he did nothing at all with his opportunities. He looked EXTREMELY soft, his hands appear to have regressed badly, and his route running is not up to par. I don't see him as Boldin's replacement but rather more of a #4 WR.

Streeter, Thompson, and Williams are all camp bodies that are a long shot to ever be major contributors in the NFL. We can always bet against the odds and assume that they'll pan out... but the Ravens have drafted 13 WRs in the 4th round or later since 1996. Only Brandon Stokely and Jermaine Lewis have panned out at all. So they're 2 for 13 with plenty of misses like Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, Clarence Moore, etc. etc.

So what's the long-term WR situation look like? Torrey Smith and then... absolutely nothing. Drafting a WR early doesn't solve the problem and I'm well aware that even 1st and 2nd round picks can bust, but this is a VERY deep and excellent class of WRs. If DeAndre Hopkins is on the board at #32 and all the guys higher on your big board are gone, why not take him? If you're on the clock at 64 and Da'Rick Rogers is your BPA, why not take him? You take the guys you like the best, and those are two EXCELLENT players.

This is all, of course, ignoring the very real possibility that Jacoby and/or Anquan are going to be let go. If that happens, then WR shoots up into one of your top needs undoubtedly.

**BcRaven** · 03-05-2013, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I disagree pretty strongly with this line of thinking. We have a need at WR both short and long-term. Boldin is old and if he's not extended he'll only be here one more year. Jacoby is a part-time 3rd WR at best if he's the full-time return specialist. Of the top 3 only Torrey Smith is a certain commodity and he's a very good #2, not a #1.

Beyond those 3 on the depth chart you're into very questionable territory. I was very high on Doss when he was drafted, but based on what he put on tape last year I am no longer high on him at all. He was fully healthy this past season and split the #3 WR job w/Jacoby, and Joe often looked his way when he was on the field, but he did nothing at all with his opportunities. He looked EXTREMELY soft, his hands appear to have regressed badly, and his route running is not up to par. I don't see him as Boldin's replacement but rather more of a #4 WR.

Streeter, Thompson, and Williams are all camp bodies that are a long shot to ever be major contributors in the NFL. We can always bet against the odds and assume that they'll pan out... but the Ravens have drafted 13 WRs in the 4th round or later since 1996. Only Brandon Stokely and Jermaine Lewis have panned out at all. So they're 2 for 13 with plenty of misses like Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, Clarence Moore, etc. etc.

So what's the long-term WR situation look like? Torrey Smith and then... absolutely nothing. Drafting a WR early doesn't solve the problem and I'm well aware that even 1st and 2nd round picks can bust, but this is a VERY deep and excellent class of WRs. If DeAndre Hopkins is on the board at #32 and all the guys higher on your big board are gone, why not take him? If you're on the clock at 64 and Da'Rick Rogers is your BPA, why not take him? You take the guys you like the best, and those are two EXCELLENT players.

This is all, of course, ignoring the very real possibility that Jacoby and/or Anquan are going to be let go. If that happens, then WR shoots up into one of your top needs undoubtedly.

So, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, rather draft a WR (due to your logic above) than say an ILB...when Ray has retired, Ellerbe is an UFA, and McClain is coming off a season-ending injury. I think ILB is much more of a priority than WR at this point. Hopefully, I did not read your post incorrectly... Bc

**JAB1985** · 03-05-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I disagree pretty strongly with this line of thinking. We have a need at WR both short and long-term. Boldin is old and if he's not extended he'll only be here one more year. Jacoby is a part-time 3rd WR at best if he's the full-time return specialist. Of the top 3 only Torrey Smith is a certain commodity and he's a very good #2, not a #1.

Beyond those 3 on the depth chart you're into very questionable territory. I was very high on Doss when he was drafted, but based on what he put on tape last year I am no longer high on him at all. He was fully healthy this past season and split the #3 WR job w/Jacoby, and Joe often looked his way when he was on the field, but he did nothing at all with his opportunities. He looked EXTREMELY soft, his hands appear to have regressed badly, and his route running is not up to par. I don't see him as Boldin's replacement but rather more of a #4 WR.

Streeter, Thompson, and Williams are all camp bodies that are a long shot to ever be major contributors in the NFL. We can always bet against the odds and assume that they'll pan out... but the Ravens have drafted 13 WRs in the 4th round or later since 1996. Only Brandon Stokely and Jermaine Lewis have panned out at all. So they're 2 for 13 with plenty of misses like Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, Clarence Moore, etc. etc.

So what's the long-term WR situation look like? Torrey Smith and then... absolutely nothing. Drafting a WR early doesn't solve the problem and I'm well aware that even 1st and 2nd round picks can bust, but this is a VERY deep and excellent class of WRs. If DeAndre Hopkins is on the board at #32 and all the guys higher on your big board are gone, why not take him? If you're on the clock at 64 and Da'Rick Rogers is your BPA, why not take him? You take the guys you like the best, and those are two EXCELLENT players.

This is all, of course, ignoring the very real possibility that Jacoby and/or Anquan are going to be let go. If that happens, then WR shoots up into one of your top needs undoubtedly.

I still think youre judging Doss far to early. 2 years in the league and we all saw what Jones offered, that frankly, Doss doesnt and thats game changing speed. the fact that he took away snaps from Jones says more than the other way around.

**Stealthbirds80** · 03-05-2013, 12:09 PM

I think in long term thinking, the Ravens have to figure out who can step in for Boldin. Not be Boldin or even play like him, but just step up to become a starting WR. If after 2 yrs, Doss and L Williams haven't really made them feel confident in that, then I say draft a guy early. The issue with us is that we are going off of games and the Ravens are using practice and games to measure if any of those two can be the guy.

Streeter and Thompson are far too early in the process to know, but I think the Ravens know what they have in the other two guys, bad or good. I guess we will see on draft day how they feel about Doss or L. Williams and if by then if Boldin and Jones are still on the team.

**BigPlayReceiver** · 03-05-2013, 12:28 PM

Our future slot WR could be drafted in the 5th round: Chad Bumphis

**bmorecareful** · 03-05-2013, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

So, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, rather draft a WR (due to your logic above) than say an ILB...when Ray has retired, Ellerbe is an UFA, and McClain is coming off a season-ending injury. I think ILB is much more of a priority than WR at this point. Hopefully, I did not read your post incorrectly... Bc

You can't draft strictly for needs or level of priority. That is something the Ravens and all other well-constructed teams don't do. If there is an ILB on the board at #32 that you rate as your best player available, then you take him and you've satisfied a need, but you didn't take him because ILB was your biggest need. That's just a happy coincidence.

But what if you're sitting at #32 and none of the top 5 players available on your board are ILBs? What you DON'T do is take the 6th best player available because he's an ILB and you need one. You take the best player available who makes sense--which is pretty much anyone who's not a quarterback or running back. What I'm saying is that on MY big board, only 1 ILB is truly worth a 1st round pick: Alec Ogletree. I would much rather have DeAndre Hopkins, Datone Jones, or Matt Elam (I have each rated in the top 25 or so) than Manti Te'o or Kevin Minter (each are closer to around the #50 mark.)

If you do that with every pick you've done the best job possible of maximizing the overall talent level of your team. Sure, you might still have a hole or two on your roster walking away from draft day, but it's more important to get more talented than it is to fill all your needs with inferior players. I don't know what Ozzie's big board looks like but there's a pretty good possibility that his big board looks like mine, which means do NOT be surprised to see a non-ILB in the 1st.

Originally Posted by JAB1985

I still think youre judging Doss far to early. 2 years in the league and we all saw what Jones offered, that frankly, Doss doesnt and thats game changing speed. the fact that he took away snaps from Jones says more than the other way around.

That might be, and I do think it's worth noting how much Joe looked toward Doss when he did happen to be on the field, so something is happening there in practice that Joe likes. I'm not saying he's never going to be a contributor but I just don't see starting-caliber talent there. He struggles to catch the ball and is very soft, no physicality or toughness whatsoever. He's definitely the kind of player that might look good in practice when he's not getting hit but at this point he's not the kind of guy that I envision being more than a #4 type of receiver.

Also, I don't Doss stole any snaps from Jacoby, I think they just didn't want to overwork the guy who was lighting it up on returns. Being a #3 WR in the NFL nowadays is almost like being a starter, and that's just too many snaps for a guy who's also the return specialist.

**BcRaven** · 03-05-2013, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

... But what if you're sitting at #32 and none of the top 5 players available on your board are ILBs? What you DON'T do is take the 6th best player available because he's an ILB and you need one. You take the best player available who makes sense--which is pretty much anyone who's not a quarterback or running back...

OR, you trade down into the 2nd round like Ozzie has done before, to get a player he covets and the Ravens have a need for... Bc

**Mista T** · 03-05-2013, 01:26 PM

No ... hell no!

Subject to our team's FA losses and limited cap space for new FAs, there could be a need for replacing starters on OL, OLB, ILB, TE.

There's no way a rookie would crack the line-up. At best, compete for #4 with Doss, along with Thompson, La Quan, Steeter, David Reed. How many WRs were on the 2012 roster or taxi squad -- 6 or 7? Why waste a draft pick when we have lots of adequate backups to fight for the #4 position. I wouldn't draft a WR unless someone of great value dropped into our laps.

**jonboy79** · 03-05-2013, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

You can't draft strictly for needs or level of priority. That is something the Ravens and all other well-constructed teams don't do. If there is an ILB on the board at #32 that you rate as your best player available, then you take him and you've satisfied a need, but you didn't take him because ILB was your biggest need. That's just a happy coincidence.

But what if you're sitting at #32 and none of the top 5 players available on your board are ILBs? What you DON'T do is take the 6th best player available because he's an ILB and you need one. You take the best player available who makes sense--which is pretty much anyone who's not a quarterback or running back. What I'm saying is that on MY big board, only 1 ILB is truly worth a 1st round pick: Alec Ogletree. I would much rather have DeAndre Hopkins, Datone Jones, or Matt Elam (I have each rated in the top 25 or so) than Manti Te'o or Kevin Minter (each are closer to around the #50 mark.)

If you do that with every pick you've done the best job possible of maximizing the overall talent level of your team. Sure, you might still have a hole or two on your roster walking away from draft day, but it's more important to get more talented than it is to fill all your needs with inferior players. I don't know what Ozzie's big board looks like but there's a pretty good possibility that his big board looks like mine, which means do NOT be surprised to see a non-ILB in the 1st.

That might be, and I do think it's worth noting how much Joe looked toward Doss when he did happen to be on the field, so something is happening there in practice that Joe likes. I'm not saying he's never going to be a contributor but I just don't see starting-caliber talent there. He struggles to catch the ball and is very soft, no physicality or toughness whatsoever. He's definitely the kind of player that might look good in practice when he's not getting hit but at this point he's not the kind of guy that I envision being more than a #4 type of receiver.

Also, I don't Doss stole any snaps from Jacoby, I think they just didn't want to overwork the guy who was lighting it up on returns. Being a #3 WR in the NFL nowadays is almost like being a starter, and that's just too many snaps for a guy who's also the return specialist.

I'd rather take one ofthe many NT's that have borderline 1st round gades then a WR not named Tavon though...
Jesse Williams, Sylvester Williams, John Jenkins, etc. Need and value. I have Tavon ranked clearly ahead of this group, and as such couldn't pass on hm i he were inexplicably there, but need is absolutely a concern when setting up ones big board. Consider need the tiebreaker...

**bmorecareful** · 03-05-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

OR, you trade down into the 2nd round like Ozzie has done before, to get a player he covets and the Ravens have a need for... Bc

That's a good option if you can find a trading partner, but listen... there's going to be a really good player at #32. if Ozzie takes that player, and he's not an ILB... we're going to be okay. The need can be addressed later in the draft, in free agency, or through trades. You have to understand Ozzie's style in the draft. He's going to sit there and watch 31 other FOs panic and grab inferior prospects because of exactly the mentality you're buying into. Then, when his card comes up at 32, there's going to be a few guys sitting there in the green room that should have gone 10 picks ago, and he's going to have his choice of them.

Now, LAST year Ozzie caught a HUGE break. There were so many guys that carried 1st round grades sitting there at 29 that moving back to 35 was a total no-brainer (we know that they liked at least 4 guys enough to take them at 29, one of which was Upshaw who they couldn't believe they got at 35). If that happens again this year, it's fantastic, but again the name on the card is not going to simply be whatever ILB is highest on the board who's available. It's going to be the best overall player. If it isn't an ILB we'll be fine.

**srobert96** · 03-05-2013, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I disagree pretty strongly with this line of thinking. We have a need at WR both short and long-term. Boldin is old and if he's not extended he'll only be here one more year. Jacoby is a part-time 3rd WR at best if he's the full-time return specialist. Of the top 3 only Torrey Smith is a certain commodity and he's a very good #2, not a #1.

Beyond those 3 on the depth chart you're into very questionable territory. I was very high on Doss when he was drafted, but based on what he put on tape last year I am no longer high on him at all. He was fully healthy this past season and split the #3 WR job w/Jacoby, and Joe often looked his way when he was on the field, but he did nothing at all with his opportunities. He looked EXTREMELY soft, his hands appear to have regressed badly, and his route running is not up to par. I don't see him as Boldin's replacement but rather more of a #4 WR.

Streeter, Thompson, and Williams are all camp bodies that are a long shot to ever be major contributors in the NFL. We can always bet against the odds and assume that they'll pan out... but the Ravens have drafted 13 WRs in the 4th round or later since 1996. Only Brandon Stokely and Jermaine Lewis have panned out at all. So they're 2 for 13 with plenty of misses like Marcus Smith, Justin Harper, Clarence Moore, etc. etc.

So what's the long-term WR situation look like? Torrey Smith and then... absolutely nothing. Drafting a WR early doesn't solve the problem and I'm well aware that even 1st and 2nd round picks can bust, but this is a VERY deep and excellent class of WRs. If DeAndre Hopkins is on the board at #32 and all the guys higher on your big board are gone, why not take him? If you're on the clock at 64 and Da'Rick Rogers is your BPA, why not take him? You take the guys you like the best, and those are two EXCELLENT players.

This is all, of course, ignoring the very real possibility that Jacoby and/or Anquan are going to be let go. If that happens, then WR shoots up into one of your top needs undoubtedly.

This is a good summary. The WR position has me somewhat perplexed. Based on what we get to see it looks as though it is Torrey Smith and nothing special behind him. That being said I would love to know what Caldwell's feelings are on the young guys. I am not going to write of Doss because he had some drops in limited action. The offense was not conducive to wr success under Cameron. They were in two wr sets majority of the time. The routes were simplistic. With more playing time and a more creative offense do they step it up? That is the question. I am guessing Caldwell has a pretty good idea and we will know more after the draft.

**The Excellector** · 03-05-2013, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

i dont think theres a round 1 talent in this draft, even the golden boy Tavon Austin doesnt interest me for more than a 2nd (our last second). Honestly, I think the greatest value at WR is Hunter and Rodgers. Id take either in the 2nd but again im not sure its worth moving up for him, especially if Rodgers/Hunter or some of these others are still on the board. I do think we come away with a WR, but not in the first two rounds. Id be surprised if Hunter, Rodgers or Hopkins will be there at the end of two. If we dont draft a WR, that tells you how the team feels about Thompson, Streeter and Reed/Williams. Swope is intriguing to me. I think hes got some value but again, id have a similar 3rd round grade on him.

You don't think Tavon Austin is a first round talent?!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!!!