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  1. #13
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's



    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Before I bring up several arguments against all you read option apologists, when was the last time a team won the SB without running a normal NFL pro style offense? Aaron Rogers can get out of the pocket, extend plays, and run for firsts downs, so can Roethlisberger, hell even Flacco is an underrated athlete and can escape pressure (as seen in the SB). But they are all QBs who stand in the pocket and win games off their arm, not their legs.

    I think the option can work to some extent, but I'm not sure if you can win a SB running that offense, and without a QB who can throw the ball at an elite level. A team is never going to win anything with a QB who wants to run before throwing. Then there is the injury factor that plays into it. Once NFL defenses start getting more experience playing against these offenses, and spending the time in the film room, the speed and physicality will soon catch up with it,
    What, exactly, is a "normal pro style" offense? I mean, it wasn't all that long ago that Green Bay's variation on the fun and gun was considered a gimmicky college offense that couldn't work in the NFL, but now we've apparently re-branded it as tradiitional professional offense?





  2. #14
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    I think Cosell's main point when it comes to QB's is that they need to be able to make the throws to be successful.
    But who other than the staunchest Tebow fanboys says that they don't? Saying that a QB has to be able to make throws in the NFL is the sort of banal point that really doesn't bolster any argument against the viability of the read option system, and would apply to a grand total of zero starting quarterbacks running the read option right now.




  3. #15

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    But who other than the staunchest Tebow fanboys says that they don't? Saying that a QB has to be able to make throws in the NFL is the sort of banal point that really doesn't bolster any argument against the viability of the read option system, and would apply to a grand total of zero starting quarterbacks running the read option right now.
    I think his point is that when you remove the novelty of the read option, it still boils down to being able to consistently, accurately throw the ball. That's exactly where Tebow failed, and CK succeeded. My take on GC's piece is that while some folks get all jazzed over the running aspect of the read option, when you strip it all down, it's still about being able to throw, not run, the ball. And I'm not sure the big advocates of the read option are saying that. They are presenting that package as if it's something so new and improved, a QB can compensate for average throwing ability because of the added threat of the run. And it just doesn't work that way. All the "Wildcat" and "Pistol" frenzies that are the fads of the day eventually come back down to earth.

    I also wonder, in addition to the added injury risk factor, if all that running doesn't reduce a QBs throwing accuracy over the course of a game, and a season. The base for the throwing is the legs. And like a boxer, if the legs get weary, the punching accuracy, and in the case of the QB the throwing accuracy, is going to suffer.




  4. #16
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    So you think a QB improvising because he's being flushed out of the pocket is the same as a QB improvising on whether to run/pass at the point of attack is the same? LOL. Completely different dynamics at work.
    There's no question the option works but it's only going to take you so far.
    doubt anyone thinks that but thanks for playing
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #17

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I think his point is that when you remove the novelty of the read option, it still boils down to being able to consistently, accurately throw the ball. That's exactly where Tebow failed, and CK succeeded. My take on GC's piece is that while some folks get all jazzed over the running aspect of the read option, when you strip it all down, it's still about being able to throw, not run, the ball. And I'm not sure the big advocates of the read option are saying that. They are presenting that package as if it's something so new and improved, a QB can compensate for average throwing ability because of the added threat of the run. And it just doesn't work that way. All the "Wildcat" and "Pistol" frenzies that are the fads of the day eventually come back down to earth.

    I also wonder, in addition to the added injury risk factor, if all that running doesn't reduce a QBs throwing accuracy over the course of a game, and a season. The base for the throwing is the legs. And like a boxer, if the legs get weary, the punching accuracy, and in the case of the QB the throwing accuracy, is going to suffer.
    For most QBs I agree. But I don't really see this when watching A-Rod, Big-Ben, or Joe. They're pretty much the same while throwing on the run. Or at least the drop-off is very minimal.
    Self appointed Ravens SuperFan in the southern hemisphere/New Zealand.




  6. #18

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Time will tell if wilson and ck do well or get hurt like rg111. Never should under estimate good NFL defensive coaches, with enough film and people watching the QBs, a defensive scheme will evolve. Anyone remember the wildcat? One year wonders(Newton) had their days, but now have to realize someone is spying on them,waiting for that big hit. I think wilson,ck,and rg111 will win some games and lose others do to their playing style. A great defense will eat these guys up and hurt them physically. Green bay s defense fell apart with ck and he had a great game. Ravens defense did well until ngata left, but ck threw 3 passes with no completions to lose the game on the last drive. Inexperience maybe, good defensive scheme for sure. Against a defense not rated in the top 10,with a new DC.




  7. #19
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I think his point is that when you remove the novelty of the read option, it still boils down to being able to consistently, accurately throw the ball. That's exactly where Tebow failed, and CK succeeded. My take on GC's piece is that while some folks get all jazzed over the running aspect of the read option, when you strip it all down, it's still about being able to throw, not run, the ball. And I'm not sure the big advocates of the read option are saying that. They are presenting that package as if it's something so new and improved, a QB can compensate for average throwing ability because of the added threat of the run. And it just doesn't work that way. All the "Wildcat" and "Pistol" frenzies that are the fads of the day eventually come back down to earth.

    I also wonder, in addition to the added injury risk factor, if all that running doesn't reduce a QBs throwing accuracy over the course of a game, and a season. The base for the throwing is the legs. And like a boxer, if the legs get weary, the punching accuracy, and in the case of the QB the throwing accuracy, is going to suffer.
    Average throwing ability? Yeah, I think the read option offense can "compensate" for that, in the sense that it makes the defense focus on multiple things as opposed to having a Kaepernick or Wilson just be a straight drop back pocket passer. But below average or just inadequate passer? No.




  8. #20

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Average throwing ability? Yeah, I think the read option offense can "compensate" for that, in the sense that it makes the defense focus on multiple things as opposed to having a Kaepernick or Wilson just be a straight drop back pocket passer. But below average or just inadequate passer? No.
    Well...how would you assess Vick's throwing ability? To me, he was an average thrower, and an above average runner -- for a QB. And throughout his career, he was always able to generate yards running, and to a certain extent passing as well. But he never achieved greatness anywhere he played, aside from the hype surrounding him. And to me, it's because he was an average passer (not below average like Tebow) and that was always his Achilles heel. And no amount of optioning could compensate for it.




  9. #21

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    doubt anyone thinks that but thanks for playing
    Then don't bring Big Ben into the conversation....




  10. #22
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Well...how would you assess Vick's throwing ability? To me, he was an average thrower, and an above average runner -- for a QB. And throughout his career, he was always able to generate yards running, and to a certain extent passing as well. But he never achieved greatness anywhere he played, aside from the hype surrounding him. And to me, it's because he was an average passer (not below average like Tebow) and that was always his Achilles heel. And no amount of optioning could compensate for it.
    Vick hasn't played in a read option system.




  11. #23

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Well the 49ers were one defensed pass away from a Superbowl title.
    Yes.

    I don't see any merit in the notion that there's only one way to win in the NFL.




  12. #24
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Time will tell if wilson and ck do well or get hurt like rg111. Never should under estimate good NFL defensive coaches, with enough film and people watching the QBs, a defensive scheme will evolve. Anyone remember the wildcat? One year wonders(Newton) had their days, but now have to realize someone is spying on them,waiting for that big hit. I think wilson,ck,and rg111 will win some games and lose others do to their playing style. A great defense will eat these guys up and hurt them physically. Green bay s defense fell apart with ck and he had a great game. Ravens defense did well until ngata left, but ck threw 3 passes with no completions to lose the game on the last drive. Inexperience maybe, good defensive scheme for sure. Against a defense not rated in the top 10,with a new DC.
    Comparing the read option to the wildcat is asinine.




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