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  1. #25

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's



    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Vick hasn't played in a read option system.
    To me the difference is not whether it's the Wildcat, Read Option, Pistol, etc. It's whether the QB has the arm to make the throws. So whether it's Vick, Vince Young, CK, or whoever...either the QB can consistently make the throws or he can't. And everything else is irrelevant. Vick could never do that. Neither could Young. And to date, in the long history of the NFL, no one has been able to successfully succeed going that route. Does it mean it'll never happen? Of course not. But if/when it does, it'll be because the QB was an accurate thrower consistently over time.




  2. #26

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Comparing the read option to the wildcat is asinine.
    Why is that?




  3. #27
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    Then don't bring Big Ben into the conversation....
    perhaps you should read the article or the quote that I mentioned, or just continue blathering
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  4. #28
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Yes.

    I don't see any merit in the notion that there's only one way to win in the NFL.
    Kaepernick was THROWING the ball well to get to that position. If he couldn't throw, teams would just stack the box and concentrate on stopping the run and play exclusively zone defense.




  5. #29
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    To me the difference is not whether it's the Wildcat, Read Option, Pistol, etc. It's whether the QB has the arm to make the throws. So whether it's Vick, Vince Young, CK, or whoever...either the QB can consistently make the throws or he can't. And everything else is irrelevant. Vick could never do that. Neither could Young. And to date, in the long history of the NFL, no one has been able to successfully succeed going that route. Does it mean it'll never happen? Of course not. But if/when it does, it'll be because the QB was an accurate thrower consistently over time.
    But the read option is a designed running system. It's materially different than a QB like Vick who's scrambling around a lot.




  6. #30
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Why is that?
    because the read option is just a different way of running a fundamentally sound offense. You've got your QB taking the snap, you can throw from all of your formations, you can run entirely conventional running plays from the system, throw play action passes, and what have you. The wildcat, on the other hand, often involves a WR/RB taking the snap, negating the ability to throw an otherwise normal passing play, and is a bona fide gimmick that, even when it was working, couldn't serve as the foundation of an offensive attack.




  7. #31

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    But the read option is a designed running system. It's materially different than a QB like Vick who's scrambling around a lot.
    And the wildcat is not a designed running system? My point is ck ,wilson , and rg111 will be schemed against and good defensive teams will handle it. Get over it, this read option is a faze and will not last. It's the NFL, not college football. Qbs in this system will get hurt and their backups will suffer by not being successful with it. Enjoy it while you can, the college coaches like jim harbaugh want to change the game but will not succeed. Flacco,Rodgers,mannings, and brady are elite because of how they play in the NFL. They have been around longer because they stay mostly in the pocket and kmow mostly where the defense players are. Taking shots like rg111 is career ending or will shorten their career.




  8. #32

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    But the read option is a designed running system. It's materially different than a QB like Vick who's scrambling around a lot.
    It's a variation for sure, but I'm not seeing where it's so radically different that it deserves its own unique untouchable status to the degree that talking about it in the same context as the Wildcat or Pistol is "asinine".

    The one thing they all have in common is that they require the QB to run. When RGIII was no longer able to run, everything broke down. That's a fact. So it still comes back to the age old debate over whether running QBs can win championships. If I had to bet right now I'd say the guy most likely to do that is CK. BUT...he'll do it because he's got a cannon for an arm, and appears to be accurate. Whether he can endure the rigors of both running and passing remains to be seen. I'm willing to acknowledge that it's entirely possible, if not probable. I really think the Niners are situated to win a lot of games for a considerable amount of time as long as CK is healthy. But that goes for Brady, Manning, Joe, Rodgers, any QB, really. It's just a question of whether or not running QBs are at a higher risk of injury or lack of longevity.




  9. #33

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    because the read option is just a different way of running a fundamentally sound offense. You've got your QB taking the snap, you can throw from all of your formations, you can run entirely conventional running plays from the system, throw play action passes, and what have you. The wildcat, on the other hand, often involves a WR/RB taking the snap, negating the ability to throw an otherwise normal passing play, and is a bona fide gimmick that, even when it was working, couldn't serve as the foundation of an offensive attack.
    And what I saw was that the Wildcat worked very well UNTIL D's adjusted. Then it didn't. It's entirely possible that even though it's a bit more extravagant and efficient/effective, the read option will, IMO, most likely suffer the same fate as NFL D's begin to key in on and attack it. The biggest part of that is once a QB is running, different rules apply. And that's where focused NFL-caliber attacks on "just another player" can and will have detrimental consequences.




  10. #34
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    It's a variation for sure, but I'm not seeing where it's so radically different that it deserves its own unique untouchable status to the degree that talking about it in the same context as the Wildcat or Pistol is "asinine".
    Because you're combining a bunch of fundamentally different things simply on the basis that they're uncommon. The wildcat, with a RB or a WR taking the snap, is fundamentally a gimmick play that limits your ability to run a full offense out of the set. Sure, defenses can adjust to that and shut it down, because they know what you can't do from it. The pistol, on the other hand, is just a formation, and one that you can run an entire offense from. Sure defenses can "adjust" to it, but only in the same sense that they can adjust to the "I" or the shotgun. You aren't going to be able to win simply because the defense doesn't know how to defend it, and you'll need to actually have good players to make it successful, but you certainly can use it as the base of your offense and succeed, provided that you actually have those good players.




  11. #35

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Because you're combining a bunch of fundamentally different things simply on the basis that they're uncommon. The wildcat, with a RB or a WR taking the snap, is fundamentally a gimmick play that limits your ability to run a full offense out of the set. Sure, defenses can adjust to that and shut it down, because they know what you can't do from it. The pistol, on the other hand, is just a formation, and one that you can run an entire offense from. Sure defenses can "adjust" to it, but only in the same sense that they can adjust to the "I" or the shotgun. You aren't going to be able to win simply because the defense doesn't know how to defend it, and you'll need to actually have good players to make it successful, but you certainly can use it as the base of your offense and succeed, provided that you actually have those good players.
    I'm not arguing that the option can't be used in the NFL. I've already said that with CK at the helm, he might just be the one person who can do it, because he is fundamentally a passer with a gun who can run.

    You also talk about the Wildcat as if the only option is to put in a RB at the helm. Even though it never worked for the Ravens, when they ran it they used Troy Smith, who is clearly not a running back. So there are variation possibilities all over the place for creative offensive minds.

    But nothing gets around what I consider to be the 2 basic elements of this discussion:

    1. The read option will not work with a QB who can't consistently throw for accuracy
    2. The likelihood of a more serious injury sooner rather than later is increased in the read option.




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