Boldin | Which would you rather?

[RavensQB]

Dont forget Tommy Streeter was on IR and is a BIG WR with speed.

[Shas]

If they extended Boldin it wouldn't be a slightly reduced cap number this year. It would be a significantly reduced cap number this year.

Honestly I think Austin will be long gone by the time we pick anyway.

I don't know what to make of Austin. Not that he's not talented.. he's a real football player and not one of those prima donnas. Still, he gets talked about as one of those luxury kind of picks, who usually don't get selected super high -- unless you're Ted Ginn Jr.

I think he's better than Ted Ginn, but it's not like he's a typical wide out, or your average left tackle, where just about every team needs one and you're sure what his role will be as soon as you plug him in. I guess a better comparison would be Percy Harvin. There are definitely teams that wouldn't get the most out of him (ahem, J-E-T-S). For the same reason you mentioned Welker isn't a fit for the Ravens, I wonder how many teams can get the most out of Austin.

My original thought on him was he might be there at 32 and it would allow the Ravens to trade back with a team that really wants to jump up and get him. I really believe this is a trade back year, but you're probably right that someone will nab Austin before 32.

On Boldin's cap, you're probably right that it could be a big savings. Figure he won't sign anything that doesn't guarantee more than he's set to make this year, which is $6.8M. Let's say they offer him a three year deal with an 8 million bonus and the veteran minimum salary in the first season. That would bring his 2013 cap number down to about $3M. That's probably best case scenario for the team, and it does give them nearly $4M in cap savings.

It seems like such a no brainer, you wonder why it hasn't already been proposed and agreed to. Could the team be skeptical about the number of years he'll be able to give? He used the retirement word, does it signal that he really only wants to cash out this one last paycheck this year and then call it quits? Maybe he's thinking that it's worth playing for $6.8 but not less and he'd rather just retire.

[Strange Bru]

I voted to extend Boldin, but even if that IS what ends up happening, I would still be extremely happy to see Ozzie select Tavon Austin.

I agree that Austin is unlikely to be available when we pick (assuming we stay at #32).

This is what I was going to say. You can't cut anyone until the draft is over in this scenario. Trying to draft any player, unless you have the #1 pick, is a crap shoot. You never know who is going to move up or down in order to draft their teams needs

[GOTA]

I don't know what to make of Austin. Not that he's not talented.. he's a real football player and not one of those prima donnas. Still, he gets talked about as one of those luxury kind of picks, who usually don't get selected super high -- unless you're Ted Ginn Jr.

I think he's better than Ted Ginn, but it's not like he's a typical wide out, or your average left tackle, where just about every team needs one and you're sure what his role will be as soon as you plug him in. I guess a better comparison would be Percy Harvin. There are definitely teams that wouldn't get the most out of him (ahem, J-E-T-S). For the same reason you mentioned Welker isn't a fit for the Ravens, I wonder how many teams can get the most out of Austin.

My original thought on him was he might be there at 32 and it would allow the Ravens to trade back with a team that really wants to jump up and get him. I really believe this is a trade back year, but you're probably right that someone will nab Austin before 32.

On Boldin's cap, you're probably right that it could be a big savings. Figure he won't sign anything that doesn't guarantee more than he's set to make this year, which is $6.8M. Let's say they offer him a three year deal with an 8 million bonus and the veteran minimum salary in the first season. That would bring his 2013 cap number down to about $3M. That's probably best case scenario for the team, and it does give them nearly $4M in cap savings.

It seems like such a no brainer, you wonder why it hasn't already been proposed and agreed to. Could the team be skeptical about the number of years he'll be able to give? He used the retirement word, does it signal that he really only wants to cash out this one last paycheck this year and then call it quits? Maybe he's thinking that it's worth playing for $6.8 but not less and he'd rather just retire.

Percy Harvin is exactly what teams a seeing with Austin. There are certain teams that look at a player like that and the wheels just start turning. The Seahawks for example have been trying to find offensive playmakers since Pete Carroll arrived. That's why they spent all that money on Sydney Rice. That's why they traded for Leon Washington and Marshawn Lynch. Now that Carroll has a playmaking QB he's going to try even harder to put that kind of guy on the offense.

I see the Bucs, Panthers, Saints and Packers as other teams who are going to really think about this kid. If the 49ers and Titans didn't just draft 1st round WRs last year I'd throw them in there too. Austin definitely doesn't fit in everyones offense but as complimentary piece he's very intriguing.

[jonboy79]

Austin will be gone top `15-20... otherwise I would have chosen that option.

[s.r.genovese]

Austin will be gone top `15-20... otherwise I would have chosen that option.

I'm pretty sure teams are still leery of taking 5'8'' receivers in the first round, let alone top 20. Dexter McCluster has a very similar skill-set and still didn't go till the 3rd round.

He might slip in 32 or top of second but I really doubt he goes top 20.

[jonboy79]

I'm pretty sure teams are still leery of taking 5'8'' receivers in the first round, let alone top 20. Dexter McCluster has a very similar skill-set and still didn't go till the 3rd round.

He might slip in 32 or top of second but I really doubt he goes top 20.

He's quite probably the best playmaker in the entire draft, and could possibly be one of the biggest playmakers inthe NFL in short order. His short area quickness is off the charts.

I'd be absolutely ASTOUNDED if he escapes the top 20.

He's a better, faster, quicker Percy Harvin with less injury concerns. Alebit a touch smaller.

[s.r.genovese]

He's quite probably the best playmaker in the entire draft, and could possibly be one of the biggest playmakers inthe NFL in short order. His short area quickness is off the charts.

I'd be absolutely ASTOUNDED if he escapes the top 20.

He's a better, faster, quicker Percy Harvin with less injury concerns. Alebit a touch smaller.

We'll see. I think Harvin was the exception not the rule. And Harvin was certainly more hyped, as a guy who was a Heisman candidate in his sophomore and junior seasons. And 3'' and 15 pounds makes a big difference. It's the difference between a guy like DeSean Jackson who has become a #1 receiver and Dexter McCluster who is a nice complimentary player.

I would still like him, however.

[Shas]

I think both arguments are valid. I will not be shocked if Austin goes 15th...and I won't be shocked if he's there at 32 available for the Ravens to take, or more likely, available for them to dangle the pick to a team that will be thrilled to make him their second pick. I think he, Teo and Ogletree are the three most intriguing players in terms of trying to predict where they go in the draft.

[jonboy79]

I think both arguments are valid. I will not be shocked if Austin goes 15th...and I won't be shocked if he's there at 32 available for the Ravens to take, or more likely, available for them to dangle the pick to a team that will be thrilled to make him their second pick. I think he, Teo and Ogletree are the three most intriguing players in terms of trying to predict where they go in the draft.

if he was a more normal size he would be going #1 overall in this poor draft.

[s.r.genovese]

if he was a more normal size he would be going #1 overall in this poor draft.

That's definitely true. If he was 6'' 190 he'd top 5 top 10 easily.

[jonboy79]

That's definitely true. If he was 6'' 190 he'd top 5 top 10 easily.

If he were 6' 190 I don't think there would be any question who would go #1 overall... I think the question would be if KC would get enough value to trade out of the pick...

[Shas]

I won't argue the point that his size is the primary factor in limiting his draft stock. But I think it would be wrong to think he is everything you want in a receiver who just happens to be smallish. It's not like a team is going to get a guy who will produce like a #1 overall receiver who will be a steal in the later half of the first round.

His size and skill in the open field shaped how he was used at WVU and it will narrow how he will be used in the NFL. He wasn't asked to do what a Calvin Johnson does, and he won't do what a Calvin Johnson can do in the NFL. He'll give a team a few explosive plays that will be the difference in winning some games, and he will be a nightmare to cover, which will make the other receiving options on the field that much better. But he won't be the kind of workhorse receiver who will rack up a ton of catches, or the sort of player a team will lean on in the red zone when they have to score or the kind of go-to guy on third down who you throw it up and expect he'll make a play. That's the kind of player who you do think about making the number one overall pick. Not many guys not named Calvin Johnson have that kind of total value.

What I'm trying to say is that this isn't like an undersized linebacker who still can do everything you expect a linebacker to do. His size does limit what kind of role he has had, and will have. Which is not to say he isn't a tremendous talent. I'd be very happy to have him as a complimentary piece to go with Rice and Torrey Smith in a very dynamic scheme. Like Rice and Smith, who both were second round picks, he needs to be a piece of the puzzle.

[RustonRifle]

For me extend Boldin. I chuckle when I read Raven fans talking about Boldins lack of speed. Because of his strong body and hands he's one of the few guys in the NFL that is open when he is covered if the ball is placed in the right area. Take a look at the Browns game from Thursday Night football. That was just incredible work by Boldin and Joe.

[s.r.genovese]

I won't argue the point that his size is the primary factor in limiting his draft stock. But I think it would be wrong to think he is everything you want in a receiver who just happens to be smallish. It's not like a team is going to get a guy who will produce like a #1 overall receiver who will be a steal in the later half of the first round.

His size and skill in the open field shaped how he was used at WVU and it will narrow how he will be used in the NFL. He wasn't asked to do what a Calvin Johnson does, and he won't do what a Calvin Johnson can do in the NFL. He'll give a team a few explosive plays that will be the difference in winning some games, and he will be a nightmare to cover, which will make the other receiving options on the field that much better. But he won't be the kind of workhorse receiver who will rack up a ton of catches, or the sort of player a team will lean on in the red zone when they have to score or the kind of go-to guy on third down who you throw it up and expect he'll make a play. That's the kind of player who you do think about making the number one overall pick. Not many guys not named Calvin Johnson have that kind of total value.

What I'm trying to say is that this isn't like an undersized linebacker who still can do everything you expect a linebacker to do. His size does limit what kind of role he has had, and will have. Which is not to say he isn't a tremendous talent. I'd be very happy to have him as a complimentary piece to go with Rice and Torrey Smith in a very dynamic scheme. Like Rice and Smith, who both were second round picks, he needs to be a piece of the puzzle.

While you make some good points, you can essentially say the same of DeSean Jackson at Cal; they made him the focal point of their offense in terms of screens, reverses, and of course kick returns.

That didn't stop him from becoming a pretty complete receiver in his own right when he came to the NFL.

Now you're right Austin will never be a Calvin Johnson but it doesn't mean he'll forever be relegated to a gadget receiver. Hell, one of the most productive receivers in the league (Welker) is about the same size as Austin. I wouldn't say his role is all that "narrrow." He can do almost everything a normal receiver can do save maybe go deep (though he went pretty deep on that dropped AFC Championship pass). But that isn't any different than a guy like say Boldin, who's skillset also precludes him from running 9 routes effectively.

[HKusp]

There once was a little guy named Steve Smith down in Carolina that was a "pretty good" receiver. Albeit he was a 3rd rounder when taken, he came out of a junior college program and then went to a smaller division one school (Utah). Could Tavon Austin be as good a player as Smith or will he be more of a complimentary player like Harvin or McCluster?

[BigPlayReceiver]

There once was a little guy named Steve Smith down in Carolina that was a "pretty good" receiver. Albeit he was a 3rd rounder when taken, he came out of a junior college program and then went to a smaller division one school (Utah). Could Tavon Austin be as good a player as Smith or will he be more of a complimentary player like Harvin or McCluster?

If appropriately schemed, Austin will be a better playmaker than Smith, but he won't be a better receiver.

Inch-for-inch, Smith may be the best receiver since the merger. Austin is so damn gifted, I don't know that he'll ever feel like he needs to be the technician that Smith has become. Crappy statement to make, but if Austin does indeed become a technician like Smith... Good Lord.

[Stealthbirds80]

What I've been hearing is the extension piece is in relation to how tight the cap maybe next year and they aren't looking at Boldin as a mainstay beyond 2013. I was listening to WNST this morning and they layed out the other players that will be getting a jump in pay that should still be here with most notably Flacco, Suggs, Webb, Ngata, Rice, and I think Yanda (not a cap expert at all so someone clarify these).

At this point the Ravens are just looking at the big picture and not just being greedy or hateful. I want Boldin here and I thought that they would be able to adjust pay of other players that will be here for the long haul, but I guess that they are playing hardball at this time.

I'm wondering if the Ravens just have some bigger plans in FA than we anticipated. Possibly a LT along with Ellerbe?

[GOTA]

What I've been hearing is the extension piece is in relation to how tight the cap maybe next year and they aren't looking at Boldin as a mainstay beyond 2013. I was listening to WNST this morning and they layed out the other players that will be getting a jump in pay that should still be here with most notably Flacco, Suggs, Webb, Ngata, Rice, and I think Yanda (not a cap expert at all so someone clarify these).

At this point the Ravens are just looking at the big picture and not just being greedy or hateful. I want Boldin here and I thought that they would be able to adjust pay of other players that will be here for the long haul, but I guess that they are playing hardball at this time.

I'm wondering if the Ravens just have some bigger plans in FA than we anticipated. Possibly a LT along with Ellerbe?

Why weren't they looking big picture last season when they gave Birk a multi-year deal? If you extend Boldin for 3 years you would then re-evaluate after next season. Just like this deal he's probably not going to see the last year as it's set up. Now that only works if you feel that Boldin can still be productive for 2013 and 2014. Based on what we saw him do without Cam I'm convinced.

[leachisabeast]

If the Ravens choose to keep Boldin and not cut anyone else, they are going to have to restructure someones contract unless they want to be completely out of FA. Can't do much with 4M, and they are only going to be able to keep one of their main FAs with that much.