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  1. #145
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Houston, TX Y'all
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    21,542


    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    I bet.

    Your stupid posts?
    Dude, there's NO need for that here.

    A simple message board debate should be far more easier from a criticism standpoint than the past three years of the Socratic method you've had in law school.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #146

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Follow the chronology of the thread.

    On 3/14 I suspected collusion.

    On 3/18 Aaron Wilson first posted about suspected collusion.

    On 3/28 I heard agent Tony Agnone complain about collusion.

    On 4/3 the NFLPA issues a letter asking agents to divulge info re: collusion.

    I mentioned this idea of collusion before the media ever came out with it.

    Yet I've added nothing.

    Your lack of knowledge on the topic hinders your understanding. I is not so simple.
    The problem with your tack here is that the only possible way the claim can be true is if the owners are spending a smaller percentage of the cap than usual. I see no evidence of this at all (admittedly, I am only eyeballing general, preliminary figures).

    Anecdotal claims about specific players signing for less than they "should" means nothing here. Literally nothing. Unless it goes hand in hand with the owners somehow benefiting (i.e. spending less money, keeping more money).

    Since teams still have months to finalize their rosters and spend their remaining cap space, there is no possible way any claim can have any merit right now even if eventually it does gain merit.

    Accusations or nebulous suspicions by self-interested parties should be assigned no weight, imo, without at least some evidential support.




  3. #147
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    over by the dental floss bush
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    13,659
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    to me it's simple mathematics plus the huge amount of FAs available. Teams like the Ravens just signed their QB to a huge contract, so it's going to limit other positions (especially teams who are have higher cap hits at the QB position). Teams like Miami who have a QB and LT on their rookie contracts can go out and sign Mike Wallace, Ellerbe, etc.
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  4. #148
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Northern Ireland, UK
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    2,650

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Aaron Wilson:
    Lot of agents using C word, collusion, when discussing free agency patterns and trends. Very tough to prove, and it's a buyers' market
    7:54 AM - 18 Mar 13

    4/3:
    NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith has told agents that the union has “heard reports of a concern that teams are working in concert” to “set” player compensation, NFL Network’s Albert Breer reported Wednesday.


    No. Nothing to do with each other at all...

    If you fucking paid attention you would see the Aaron Wilson tweet predated the comments from D Smith by WEEKS.
    His point being AW is just regurgitating what he's heard in the grapevine, not something he has suspected itself, so its all wrapped up in one bundle, its no different evidence, sorry its not a different suspicion because he's repeating what he's been told.

    That's like me telling a mate here in the uk, collusion might be happening then you trying to say that's evidence because I said it.....




  5. #149

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    It is funny that you use that as basis to negate collusion. The NFLPA is going so far as to post DAILY updates in 4 hour increments on every team's salary cap situation. I don't think this has ever been done before. They are doing it so agents can see how much teams really have (e.g. for when the teams says "we only have $XXX money left", the agents can call BS.
    I'd love to see an agent call BS using the NFLPA numbers, now that we know that those numbers are totally eff'd:

    http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...ens-Cap-Update

    How can you "forget" to include a player who signed his $2 million tender more than a week ago? And how can you apply a bonus that wasn't paid? What an embarrassment. This would feed right into the agents' paranoia.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  6. #150

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    His point being AW is just regurgitating what he's heard in the grapevine, not something he has suspected itself, so its all wrapped up in one bundle, its no different evidence, sorry its not a different suspicion because he's repeating what he's been told.

    That's like me telling a mate here in the uk, collusion might be happening then you trying to say that's evidence because I said it.....
    The "grapevine" consists of about 715 agents registered with the NFL.

    Please show me an example of the last time agents were complaining so loudly about collusion during free agency.




  7. #151

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    I'd love to see an agent call BS using the NFLPA numbers, now that we know that those numbers are totally eff'd:

    http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...ens-Cap-Update

    How can you "forget" to include a player who signed his $2 million tender more than a week ago? And how can you apply a bonus that wasn't paid? What an embarrassment.
    They are probably too busy wondering why no one will offer their All Pro player more than a 1 year deal for $2M (or less).




  8. #152

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    They are probably too busy wondering why no one will offer their All Pro player more than a 1 year deal for $2M.
    Please tell us which current All Pro only got a 1/$2 offer. And please don't waste our time naming players who made All Pro three years ago.

    BTW, your attempt to deflect attention from the NFLPA's epic fail is noted. It, too, was an epic fail.
    I've upped my standards. Up yours.




  9. #153

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

    Please show me an example of the last time agents were complaining about collusion during free agency.
    Please show a time where FA market was soft and the NFLPA did not claim collusion.

    No one is disputing that the FA market is soft. The issue is why.

    The salary cap has not been raised as much in recent years. There is a new rookie salary cap/pool. There is now a salary cap floor. QBs are signing increasingly large contracts. Two of the biggest spending teams (Cowboys and Redskins) are temporarily penalized and prevented from entering the fray as much as usual (penalties which the NFLPA inexplicably supported). All facts and possible reasons. Owner collusion? Not a fact, and no evidence thus far; either in terms communication/cooperation between owners, or even as far as anyone can tell, in terms of overall cap spending by clubs.




  10. #154

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    This is ONE poster who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. He just wants his claims to be validated. Logic is not going to change this dude's mind, plenty of people have refuted what he's said and he's just continued to repeat himself. Only thing to do is stop arguing with him so the thread goes away.




  11. #155

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Please tell us which current All Pro only got a 1/$2 offer. And please don't waste our time naming players who made All Pro three years ago.

    BTW, your attempt to deflect attention from the NFLPA's epic fail is noted. It, too, was an epic fail.
    You don't know what parameters the NFLPA is using when generating their list. And I never said the NFLPA was a good union anyway. In fact, they are quite shitty in comparison to other sports unions.

    I don't know the offers because I am not an agent. And I am not a beat reporter with inside contacts. All I can see are the deals that have been signed. And to me it seems there are a plethora of 1 year, low $$ contracts.

    And I am not going to do a line item comparison with previous years when this free agency period isn't even over, we are only in year 2 of the rookie wage scale system, and as I've already stated - one year likely isn't enough to show a clear pattern.

    But I also don't expect this issue to go away.




  12. #156

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    This is ONE poster who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. He just wants his claims to be validated. Logic is not going to change this dude's mind, plenty of people have refuted what he's said and he's just continued to repeat himself. Only thing to do is stop arguing with him so the thread goes away.
    Actually I see a bunch of people that have no fucking clue about antitrust regulations.

    Someone here please answer the following:

    1) Are the 32 NFL teams viewed as 1 entity, or 32 separate entities?
    2) How does the answer to 1) impact application of section 1 of the Sherman Act with regards to the market for player contracts and potential collusion?
    Last edited by bt12483; 04-04-2013 at 01:08 PM.




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